2004 Election Debate
Wednesday, August 27, 2003
Martin 2
07-10-2003 04:18 PM ET (US)
Yeah Ann
I hope someone can get Bush out of the presidentcy cause he sure is killing America.I'm from Germany. Germany takes care of it's people. With the American economy being so bad thay are going to have to cute alot of programs. There's no money to pay for them. Bush spent to much money on this war with Iraq, he just had to have. Now Bush says he wants to start up a billion dollar weapons program again. This President would invade any other country who tried to do it, but hey it's OK for him to do.
07-10-2003 04:18 PM ET (US)
Yeah Ann
I hope someone can get Bush out of the presidentcy cause he sure is killing America.I'm from Germany. Germany takes care of it's people. With the American economy being so bad thay are going to have to cute alot of programs. There's no money to pay for them. Bush spent to much money on this war with Iraq, he just had to have. Now Bush says he wants to start up a billion dollar weapons program again. This President would invade any other country who tried to do it, but hey it's OK for him to do.
Ann Stewart 1
07-10-2003 03:45 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 07-10-2003 03:47 PM
I think the only man who has a chance right now is Joe Lieberman . I wanted John Edwards to do better, but I heard he may be dropping out of the race. I have no problem with Bush, other than the War with Iraq. I can get over that he has totally devoured our American Economy, and Americans can’t find jobs because of it, but I can’t get over the senseless deaths of the innocent Iraqian people and our own troops in uniform. It was heart braking to me to see what happened to the people of Iraq and what is still happening to them. I’ve always believe President Bush just wanted to prove his daddy right or something, because his father was the first to go to war with Iraq. He wanted his daddy to be right in history or something, so I believe that might have been why he pushed the war with Iraq so hard. He’s always said he’s like his daddy. He has his daddy’s eyes, his daddy’s job, and he has ordered the death of thousands of innocent Iraqians just like his daddy.
I have a brother in the military. We are very patriotic family. People would think my family and I should be all for the war, but even a lot of military people believe this war was a personal vindication of President Bush’s own desires of oil gains for his control. President Bush seems so gong ho about war. Who knows what kind of conflicts, he will put us in if we give him another 4 years.
I’m not a democrat or a republican. I vote for the man I believe will do the best job, and I believe Bush is so popular he will be hard to beat, maybe even impossible, but I’m scared of what will happen if he wins again. I want a President who will rebuild foreign relationships with the middle east, North Korea, and Liberia and put our countries economy back on track, and I don’t think Bush will do that. Instead of just pointing the finger at these countries and calling them evil, which is what Bush has done in the past to Iraq and North Korea, I want a President to say, we want to be your friend and allies, and try to rebuild our foreign relations.
So please go and vote, and vote for the man you believe will do the best job. I hope whoever becomes the Democratic candidate has a message, that will give us hope and inspiration in these desperate times.
Samanth Pedigo 4
07-12-2003 07:46 PM ET (US)
I think Bill Clinton can come back and run for President again. He can change the law and serve again.
07-12-2003 07:46 PM ET (US)
I think Bill Clinton can come back and run for President again. He can change the law and serve again.
Martin 6
07-13-2003 01:40 PM ET (US)
Lee and Joy
I'm laughing at those comments you wrote. The republican party is the devil and bush + dick = we're funk. I agree with both of you
Martino
07-13-2003 01:40 PM ET (US)
Lee and Joy
I'm laughing at those comments you wrote. The republican party is the devil and bush + dick = we're funk. I agree with both of you
Martino
Jenny 7
07-13-2003 03:47 PM ET (US)
Bush may be bad, but Bill Clinton is even worse. If Clinton was President the whole world would be messed up. When did he ever do anything to stop terrorism. I'm a democrate, and I voted for Bush in the last election, but this time I hope John Kerry makes it to the Presidancy. I think John Kerry is the man to fix the economy. I would have voted democratic in the last election, but I knew Gore was a fool. I'm think they may get a good man on the democratic side this time. I'm rooting for Kerry.
07-13-2003 03:47 PM ET (US)
Bush may be bad, but Bill Clinton is even worse. If Clinton was President the whole world would be messed up. When did he ever do anything to stop terrorism. I'm a democrate, and I voted for Bush in the last election, but this time I hope John Kerry makes it to the Presidancy. I think John Kerry is the man to fix the economy. I would have voted democratic in the last election, but I knew Gore was a fool. I'm think they may get a good man on the democratic side this time. I'm rooting for Kerry.
Roger Dale 8
07-13-2003 04:52 PM ET (US)
Bush is the man I'm going with. I believe in what he stands for< like tring to get prayer back in our schools and our life>. Bush is for everything that God is for. George Bush is great President and he will be again for another 4 years and I'm a standing by him.
07-13-2003 04:52 PM ET (US)
Bush is the man I'm going with. I believe in what he stands for< like tring to get prayer back in our schools and our life>
Ann Stewart 9
07-14-2003 03:15 PM ET (US)
Well Roger
Your opinion is definitely welcome here, and thanks for your comments. It is nice to hear from someone defending Bush, but I myself feel Bush has been a good President, except for the economy is wrecked, and a lot of the world perceives Bush as being an unstable nuclear warhead that’s always ready to blow. In my opinion a lot of the world, especially the Middle East, perceives Bush as the worlds big evil and he’s the one accusing other countries like North Korea, and Iraq of being evil. I think Bush has just misstated a lot of his words in the past. He never should have said they are the “axis of evil” by meaning or implying the entire countries. I think we need a president who is smart enough to think before he speaks, and get his facts straight, before he attacks an entire country. Think of the thousands of Iraqi people who died. I bet their people don’t think he is a man of God. I bet they think he is close to being the Devil. I realize we should all have an objective opinion, but it seems to me Roger you think Bush is a wonderful man of God, but Joy and Lee seem to think Bush sucks big nuclear war heads.
07-14-2003 03:15 PM ET (US)
Well Roger
Your opinion is definitely welcome here, and thanks for your comments. It is nice to hear from someone defending Bush, but I myself feel Bush has been a good President, except for the economy is wrecked, and a lot of the world perceives Bush as being an unstable nuclear warhead that’s always ready to blow. In my opinion a lot of the world, especially the Middle East, perceives Bush as the worlds big evil and he’s the one accusing other countries like North Korea, and Iraq of being evil. I think Bush has just misstated a lot of his words in the past. He never should have said they are the “axis of evil” by meaning or implying the entire countries. I think we need a president who is smart enough to think before he speaks, and get his facts straight, before he attacks an entire country. Think of the thousands of Iraqi people who died. I bet their people don’t think he is a man of God. I bet they think he is close to being the Devil. I realize we should all have an objective opinion, but it seems to me Roger you think Bush is a wonderful man of God, but Joy and Lee seem to think Bush sucks big nuclear war heads.
sindhu kumar 10
07-14-2003 08:46 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 07-14-2003 08:54 PM
i am a registered republican. but for the upcoming 2004 election, i will vote for a democrat as i dont think the economic recovery will help bush get reelected. there are too many problems that are happening in the world today. and i feel that they are not being given enough attention. there is the nuclear test problems between india and pakistan and as well as problem of north korea, israel and palestine.
07-14-2003 08:46 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 07-14-2003 08:54 PM
i am a registered republican. but for the upcoming 2004 election, i will vote for a democrat as i dont think the economic recovery will help bush get reelected. there are too many problems that are happening in the world today. and i feel that they are not being given enough attention. there is the nuclear test problems between india and pakistan and as well as problem of north korea, israel and palestine.
Ann Stewart 11
07-14-2003 10:48 PM ET (US)
You are so right Sindhu. Tell it girl. That was an excellent and true comment. For that matter I grew up in a republican family and I hate that the democrats have become so liberal, because I don’t believe in abortion, but I remember the good old days when you could be a democrat and be against abortion. It seems like all the democrats are pro-choice these days. Any way if we can get a decent democratic nominee in the race this year, I’m defiantly voting democratic. I’m scared Bush is going to start a nuclear war or something. I think he is ate up with go fight win.
07-14-2003 10:48 PM ET (US)
You are so right Sindhu. Tell it girl. That was an excellent and true comment. For that matter I grew up in a republican family and I hate that the democrats have become so liberal, because I don’t believe in abortion, but I remember the good old days when you could be a democrat and be against abortion. It seems like all the democrats are pro-choice these days. Any way if we can get a decent democratic nominee in the race this year, I’m defiantly voting democratic. I’m scared Bush is going to start a nuclear war or something. I think he is ate up with go fight win.
Jennifer 13
07-16-2003 08:13 PM ET (US)
I think Bush is doing as good as any man could. People always attack Presidents. They have been doing that to every president that ever was. Clinton put us in wars with other countries too. Clinton was no better. At least Bush has the guts to defend our country when other countries are becoming a serious threat to us. Clinton never did much to help the problem. I will addmit the economy is in bad shape. Bush will probably lose the election because of that.
07-16-2003 08:13 PM ET (US)
I think Bush is doing as good as any man could. People always attack Presidents. They have been doing that to every president that ever was. Clinton put us in wars with other countries too. Clinton was no better. At least Bush has the guts to defend our country when other countries are becoming a serious threat to us. Clinton never did much to help the problem. I will addmit the economy is in bad shape. Bush will probably lose the election because of that.
Ann Stewart 14
07-16-2003 10:50 PM ET (US)
Dear Jenny
You know if you remember in the past, I thought Bush was doing really well in the beginning, but the thing that changed my mind about him was the War with Iraq. I would over look the economy cause nobody died as far as I heard. I just think it wasn’t our job to liberate the country of Iraq. If they wanted to be liberated they would’ve done it themselves in my opinion, and I personally think that the War with Iraq just gave the Middle Eastern people a reason to hate America, and see us as the Big Evil. I don’t want the world to see us that way. I think a lot of other countries kind of look at Bush like he went to War with Iraq for personal gain or oil. I read a book by Queen Noor that stated President George H.W. Bush, when he was president, said to King Hussein that he would not let Saddam control 1/3 of the world’s oil, and I really think that’s what this war was about. It’s just my opinion. I don’t know the truth. I just know what I hear. So don’t take my opinion, but I will not vote for Bush, because I feel like he could put us in another senseless war.
07-16-2003 10:50 PM ET (US)
Dear Jenny
You know if you remember in the past, I thought Bush was doing really well in the beginning, but the thing that changed my mind about him was the War with Iraq. I would over look the economy cause nobody died as far as I heard. I just think it wasn’t our job to liberate the country of Iraq. If they wanted to be liberated they would’ve done it themselves in my opinion, and I personally think that the War with Iraq just gave the Middle Eastern people a reason to hate America, and see us as the Big Evil. I don’t want the world to see us that way. I think a lot of other countries kind of look at Bush like he went to War with Iraq for personal gain or oil. I read a book by Queen Noor that stated President George H.W. Bush, when he was president, said to King Hussein that he would not let Saddam control 1/3 of the world’s oil, and I really think that’s what this war was about. It’s just my opinion. I don’t know the truth. I just know what I hear. So don’t take my opinion, but I will not vote for Bush, because I feel like he could put us in another senseless war.
Ann Stewart 15
07-20-2003 02:13 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 07-20-2003 02:13 PM
Does anybody know about the new Presidential Democratic nominee?
07-20-2003 02:13 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 07-20-2003 02:13 PM
Does anybody know about the new Presidential Democratic nominee?
Jenny 17
07-20-2003 08:16 PM ET (US)
I was watching the news and they said there are more that one new canidate coming to the democratic side.
07-20-2003 08:16 PM ET (US)
I was watching the news and they said there are more that one new canidate coming to the democratic side.
Ann Stewart 18
07-22-2003 06:30 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 07-22-2003 09:38 PM
I think Kerry is doing really good right now Jenny. He may be the one to face Bush in the next election. What do you think of him?
07-22-2003 06:30 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 07-22-2003 09:38 PM
I think Kerry is doing really good right now Jenny. He may be the one to face Bush in the next election. What do you think of him?
Ann Stewart 19
07-22-2003 09:29 PM ET (US)
I hooked up with a practicing Emergency Physician in Fort Worth, Texas on the web. He spent several years as a doctor for the USMC Infantry (Grunts). He goes by the name of GruntDoc or Allen.
I am going to give you a link to his news blog. Stop by and leave him some comments. He is excellent at reporting on stories dealing with the military.
His news site is at http://gruntdoc.com
07-22-2003 09:29 PM ET (US)
I hooked up with a practicing Emergency Physician in Fort Worth, Texas on the web. He spent several years as a doctor for the USMC Infantry (Grunts). He goes by the name of GruntDoc or Allen.
I am going to give you a link to his news blog. Stop by and leave him some comments. He is excellent at reporting on stories dealing with the military.
His news site is at http://gruntdoc.com
Jennifer 20
07-22-2003 09:48 PM ET (US)
If I had to chose any Democrat it would be Kerry. I would still vote for Bush though. I think he will serve another term. I wasn’t happy with the war on Iraq either, but I believe in his policy against abortion. I can’t get away from that. So how is your Hooked Fish page coming? I saw George Bush is on it. I hope you find something on him I have not heard before. I think I’ve heard a lot on him.
07-22-2003 09:48 PM ET (US)
If I had to chose any Democrat it would be Kerry. I would still vote for Bush though. I think he will serve another term. I wasn’t happy with the war on Iraq either, but I believe in his policy against abortion. I can’t get away from that. So how is your Hooked Fish page coming? I saw George Bush is on it. I hope you find something on him I have not heard before. I think I’ve heard a lot on him.
Martin 21
07-22-2003 09:52 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 07-22-2003 09:53 PM
bush can't win. there is too many people against him. no president has ever won a second term after putting the country in a major war like the one he just did. bush would be the first president to do so if he could pull off winning again, and by the way ladies those movies are yours. i just got to finish running them off.
07-22-2003 09:52 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 07-22-2003 09:53 PM
bush can't win. there is too many people against him. no president has ever won a second term after putting the country in a major war like the one he just did. bush would be the first president to do so if he could pull off winning again, and by the way ladies those movies are yours. i just got to finish running them off.
Ann Stewart 22
07-22-2003 10:25 PM ET (US)
I'm not a big fan of Bush. I have two members in my family who are in the military and I am going to vote for someone I believe will care about keeping them alive. I think Bush is to trigger happy about war. and our economy was totally eat’in by his administration. We had the biggest surplus in history to date when he went into the Presidency, and now America is in dept, and I just hope we can get out of it. But Jenny loves Bush. He can do no wrong in her eyes. That’s what I love about Jenny, she is a loyal woman. Once your on her good side, you could crap in her face and she would still love you.
07-22-2003 10:25 PM ET (US)
I'm not a big fan of Bush. I have two members in my family who are in the military and I am going to vote for someone I believe will care about keeping them alive. I think Bush is to trigger happy about war. and our economy was totally eat’in by his administration. We had the biggest surplus in history to date when he went into the Presidency, and now America is in dept, and I just hope we can get out of it. But Jenny loves Bush. He can do no wrong in her eyes. That’s what I love about Jenny, she is a loyal woman. Once your on her good side, you could crap in her face and she would still love you.
Becky B. 23
07-27-2003 09:36 PM ET (US)
Bush has got my support. My faith and belief is in the acts Bush has proven he will and can do. He's done a fine job. Ann almost every president has had to go to war at sometime or another. I think he handled it better than any man could have, when 9/11 happened, I believed he was some of the glue that held this country together. That had to be the worst time in history for America. I feel like he handled it better than anybody could have. He's a fine man and a great President. I wish him the best of luck in the 2004 race.
07-27-2003 09:36 PM ET (US)
Bush has got my support. My faith and belief is in the acts Bush has proven he will and can do. He's done a fine job. Ann almost every president has had to go to war at sometime or another. I think he handled it better than any man could have, when 9/11 happened, I believed he was some of the glue that held this country together. That had to be the worst time in history for America. I feel like he handled it better than anybody could have. He's a fine man and a great President. I wish him the best of luck in the 2004 race.
Ann Stewart 24
07-27-2003 09:47 PM ET (US)
Well I love what Bush does sometimes and than I hate what he does sometimes too. Your right Becky about September 11th. I think Bush did handle the aftermath of that well, and I think Americans were very patriotic at the time and stood by President Bush, but I hate all the soldiers who are getting killed in Iraq and I wish Bush would pull them out of there. I just think we went to war with Iraq without proving just cause to the world. I think a lot of the world, especially the middle east, believes Bush went to war with Iraq for personal gain of oil.
07-27-2003 09:47 PM ET (US)
Well I love what Bush does sometimes and than I hate what he does sometimes too. Your right Becky about September 11th. I think Bush did handle the aftermath of that well, and I think Americans were very patriotic at the time and stood by President Bush, but I hate all the soldiers who are getting killed in Iraq and I wish Bush would pull them out of there. I just think we went to war with Iraq without proving just cause to the world. I think a lot of the world, especially the middle east, believes Bush went to war with Iraq for personal gain of oil.
Ann Stewart 26
07-27-2003 10:09 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 07-27-2003 10:15 PM
Well I don't know. I'm not sure. I can't read the President Bush's mind. I'm just saying alot of the world has accused him of it, but I also know all Presidents get accused of bad things. So maybe I should be a Bush lover like you. You know President Bush was on my Hooked Fish Page and so was Jeb his brother. You should go check it out and leave some comments on him. Jenny asked that he be put on the page. She is just like you. She loves Bush. I guess that's why your sisters. It really shows. You guys are like tag teaming me on the Bush man. Remember I love him and hate him too. So don't kill me in my sleep or something. I'm just kidding. I do that sometimes. Becky thanks for coming in and leaving your comments. I love you for it. Well I love you for alot of reasons. You should make a choice for the Hooked Fish list. It's not completely done yet. http://hookedfish.4t.com go check it out. It's got your Bush God on it. If it makes you feel any better about my politcal likes and dislikes I voted for Governor Perry of Texas. He was once a Bush lov'in man. Personally I think Jeb Bush would make a better president than George. At least nobody would pick on Jeb for having a low IQ. Jeb is always publicized as being intelligent. People pick on George and call him stupid all the time. I don't think he's stupid. I just think he puts our military in too many dangerous places and he's gone to war for unproven reasons.
07-27-2003 10:09 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 07-27-2003 10:15 PM
Well I don't know. I'm not sure. I can't read the President Bush's mind. I'm just saying alot of the world has accused him of it, but I also know all Presidents get accused of bad things. So maybe I should be a Bush lover like you. You know President Bush was on my Hooked Fish Page and so was Jeb his brother. You should go check it out and leave some comments on him. Jenny asked that he be put on the page. She is just like you. She loves Bush. I guess that's why your sisters. It really shows. You guys are like tag teaming me on the Bush man. Remember I love him and hate him too. So don't kill me in my sleep or something. I'm just kidding. I do that sometimes. Becky thanks for coming in and leaving your comments. I love you for it. Well I love you for alot of reasons. You should make a choice for the Hooked Fish list. It's not completely done yet. http://hookedfish.4t.com go check it out. It's got your Bush God on it. If it makes you feel any better about my politcal likes and dislikes I voted for Governor Perry of Texas. He was once a Bush lov'in man. Personally I think Jeb Bush would make a better president than George. At least nobody would pick on Jeb for having a low IQ. Jeb is always publicized as being intelligent. People pick on George and call him stupid all the time. I don't think he's stupid. I just think he puts our military in too many dangerous places and he's gone to war for unproven reasons.
Jenny 27
07-28-2003 04:54 PM ET (US)
Hey Becky
I'm glad to see you found the debate place. It's good for me to have someone to agree with. I don't think Bush is perfect, but he is doing pretty good. If stacked him up against other presidents he's doing really good.
07-28-2003 04:54 PM ET (US)
Hey Becky
I'm glad to see you found the debate place. It's good for me to have someone to agree with. I don't think Bush is perfect, but he is doing pretty good. If stacked him up against other presidents he's doing really good.
Ann Stewart 29
07-29-2003 12:21 AM ET (US)
Boy that's harsh Joy, but I've spoke with you enough to know you really do feel that way.
07-29-2003 12:21 AM ET (US)
Boy that's harsh Joy, but I've spoke with you enough to know you really do feel that way.
Samatha P. 30
07-29-2003 12:44 PM ET (US)
Bill Clinton should be able to get in the race again and serve 2 more times. Bush is a sad excuse for a president. He can't seems to think of the right words to say about anything.
07-29-2003 12:44 PM ET (US)
Bill Clinton should be able to get in the race again and serve 2 more times. Bush is a sad excuse for a president. He can't seems to think of the right words to say about anything.
chris 31
07-29-2003 01:12 PM ET (US)
it doesn't matter who wins the election, because there will be a recount in florida that will cause Bush to win
07-29-2003 01:12 PM ET (US)
it doesn't matter who wins the election, because there will be a recount in florida that will cause Bush to win
Lee Pedigo 32
07-29-2003 01:14 PM ET (US)
The republican party is the devil. You should not vote for the devil.
07-29-2003 01:14 PM ET (US)
The republican party is the devil. You should not vote for the devil.
bluets 33
07-29-2003 10:48 PM ET (US)
Ann, You posted on the Dean blog that you wanted to hear more about Howard Dean. I hope you know what you've asked...
I just applied for citizenship specifically so that I can vote for Howard Dean. The media likes to portray him as "left wing" or "ultra-liberal". In fact, some of his views might infact be considered liberal while others would be considered conservative.
- he believes in fiscal responsibility: in a Dean administration, we would move back to balanced budgets; Gov. Dean will be announcing more details of his economic plan tomorrow in Iowa (watch http://deanforamerica.com for more details)
- he would continue to support the assault weapons ban and the background check requirement on gun purchases, but would leave further gun control in the jurisdiction of the states;
- he is the first candidate for president to make the link between sound environmental policy and national security; our dependence on oil requires us to import from countries with unstable governments - diversifying our energy requirements would enable us to have more direct control over energy fuels; (a sound environmental policy also makes sense for a sound health care policy)
- as a doctor, Gov. Dean understands the healthcare system all too well; he was able to ensure that well over 90% (I don't recall the exact figure offhand) of Vermonters received medical insurance - he would recommend the use of existing federal and state programs, only slightly expanded, to ensure that many more Americans have access to affordable health insurance (and he would pay for this by repealing the tax cuts - cuts from which I personally have not benefited);
I could go on and on... you will find many many Dean resources (including his stance on various issues) at the Dean for America website: http://deanforamerica.com. I think it is telling, however, that 67,000 people have signed up to participate internationally (yes, even ex-patriates are getting involved) in Meetup. Meetup.com aids in organizing local groups to meet all on the same day, with the same agenda. It is even more telling that over 222,000 people have signed up to receive email updates directly from the Dean campaign. Finally, over 9400 people contributed just this weekend alone to raise over $505,000, in response to a challenge from campaign headquarters, to out-do the $2000/head luncheon where V.P. Cheney spoke on Monday.
Gov. Dean's passion emerges in his speeches - you can download them for your personal viewing pleasure from the Dean for America website. His passion and his message are inspiring thousands of people who had become completely disillusioned with American politics. He is garnering support from traditional Democrats, traditional Republicans, and Independents.
07-29-2003 10:48 PM ET (US)
Ann, You posted on the Dean blog that you wanted to hear more about Howard Dean. I hope you know what you've asked...
I just applied for citizenship specifically so that I can vote for Howard Dean. The media likes to portray him as "left wing" or "ultra-liberal". In fact, some of his views might infact be considered liberal while others would be considered conservative.
- he believes in fiscal responsibility: in a Dean administration, we would move back to balanced budgets; Gov. Dean will be announcing more details of his economic plan tomorrow in Iowa (watch http://deanforamerica.com for more details)
- he would continue to support the assault weapons ban and the background check requirement on gun purchases, but would leave further gun control in the jurisdiction of the states;
- he is the first candidate for president to make the link between sound environmental policy and national security; our dependence on oil requires us to import from countries with unstable governments - diversifying our energy requirements would enable us to have more direct control over energy fuels; (a sound environmental policy also makes sense for a sound health care policy)
- as a doctor, Gov. Dean understands the healthcare system all too well; he was able to ensure that well over 90% (I don't recall the exact figure offhand) of Vermonters received medical insurance - he would recommend the use of existing federal and state programs, only slightly expanded, to ensure that many more Americans have access to affordable health insurance (and he would pay for this by repealing the tax cuts - cuts from which I personally have not benefited);
I could go on and on... you will find many many Dean resources (including his stance on various issues) at the Dean for America website: http://deanforamerica.com. I think it is telling, however, that 67,000 people have signed up to participate internationally (yes, even ex-patriates are getting involved) in Meetup. Meetup.com aids in organizing local groups to meet all on the same day, with the same agenda. It is even more telling that over 222,000 people have signed up to receive email updates directly from the Dean campaign. Finally, over 9400 people contributed just this weekend alone to raise over $505,000, in response to a challenge from campaign headquarters, to out-do the $2000/head luncheon where V.P. Cheney spoke on Monday.
Gov. Dean's passion emerges in his speeches - you can download them for your personal viewing pleasure from the Dean for America website. His passion and his message are inspiring thousands of people who had become completely disillusioned with American politics. He is garnering support from traditional Democrats, traditional Republicans, and Independents.
sindhu kumar 34
07-29-2003 11:34 PM ET (US)
even though i am a registered republican, i love the democratic candidates. i dont think the democrats stand a chance of upsetting bush unless a strong candidate like dean, kerry get the democratic nomination and lead bush in all the leading polls.
07-29-2003 11:34 PM ET (US)
even though i am a registered republican, i love the democratic candidates. i dont think the democrats stand a chance of upsetting bush unless a strong candidate like dean, kerry get the democratic nomination and lead bush in all the leading polls.
ACW Capitol Hill 35
07-29-2003 11:43 PM ET (US)
Ann, I got your message and couldn't figure out who you were or how you got my e-mail address. I guess it's not exactly spam since this is a subject I care about.
I have a number of problems with the current administration, namely that the American people are totally closed off from it and from the GOP-led Congress, particularly the house. For a long time I have not felt that so-called representatives listen to anybody other than pollsters and lobbyists. I think that where the media sees Bush as an "optimist" they're seeing an administration hiding its head in the sand. I know way too many talented people who are out of work to think otherwise. (Don't know if y'all saw Lou Dobbs last night. The Editors Roundtable scared me. Does Steve Forbes live on this planet?)
I don't know how different Dr. Dean would be as president, but the campaign so far has been a breath of fresh air. I'm not a joiner, I never have been, but I am really into this.
The thing that impresses me most about the candidate is that he is willing to say "I don't know" instead of dodging a question. I think that deserves an enormous amount of respect. I got on the bandwagon earlier, shortly after the DFA site went up, even before there was a blog.
I'd like to see more effort made to get press coverage in every town with a newspaper and a two-watt radio station on the reawakening of the average American's interest and participation in politics. We the People need a press kit! I guess I'll mention that at next week's Meetup.
Anyway, I think it's a good way to get the mainstream media on the bandwagon. If we can get the media behind the Good Doctor, then we can win this thing.
Interestingly enough, I saw Rep. Chris Shays (R-Conn.) on Larry King last week on a show about the 9-11 report and the war, and he spoke in terms that were by no means certain that Bush would be able to win a second term. I know that a lot of real people are talking that way, but to hear a House Republican say that shocked me.
--ACW
Washington, D.C.
07-29-2003 11:43 PM ET (US)
Ann, I got your message and couldn't figure out who you were or how you got my e-mail address. I guess it's not exactly spam since this is a subject I care about.
I have a number of problems with the current administration, namely that the American people are totally closed off from it and from the GOP-led Congress, particularly the house. For a long time I have not felt that so-called representatives listen to anybody other than pollsters and lobbyists. I think that where the media sees Bush as an "optimist" they're seeing an administration hiding its head in the sand. I know way too many talented people who are out of work to think otherwise. (Don't know if y'all saw Lou Dobbs last night. The Editors Roundtable scared me. Does Steve Forbes live on this planet?)
I don't know how different Dr. Dean would be as president, but the campaign so far has been a breath of fresh air. I'm not a joiner, I never have been, but I am really into this.
The thing that impresses me most about the candidate is that he is willing to say "I don't know" instead of dodging a question. I think that deserves an enormous amount of respect. I got on the bandwagon earlier, shortly after the DFA site went up, even before there was a blog.
I'd like to see more effort made to get press coverage in every town with a newspaper and a two-watt radio station on the reawakening of the average American's interest and participation in politics. We the People need a press kit! I guess I'll mention that at next week's Meetup.
Anyway, I think it's a good way to get the mainstream media on the bandwagon. If we can get the media behind the Good Doctor, then we can win this thing.
Interestingly enough, I saw Rep. Chris Shays (R-Conn.) on Larry King last week on a show about the 9-11 report and the war, and he spoke in terms that were by no means certain that Bush would be able to win a second term. I know that a lot of real people are talking that way, but to hear a House Republican say that shocked me.
--ACW
Washington, D.C.
Keith Brekhus 36
07-30-2003 12:19 AM ET (US)
Hey if you all want to know how the candidates compare to your positions, here is a short quiz you can take...
http://selectsmart.com/president/
07-30-2003 12:19 AM ET (US)
Hey if you all want to know how the candidates compare to your positions, here is a short quiz you can take...
http://selectsmart.com/president/
Keith Brekhus 37
07-30-2003 12:23 AM ET (US)
In the quiz below I come out 95% a match with Howard Dean. These are some of his positions:
Howard Dean, (Democrat) Former Governor of Vermont Dean is a physician who previously shared a medical practice with his wife, Dr. Judith Steinberg. He's the father of two nearly grown children. Dean was born into a wealthy New York family in 1948. The oldest of four brothers and the son of a wealthy, conservative stockbroker, he grew up in the Hamptons and the Upper-East side where he attended elite private schools. (His grandmother was a bridesmaid to President Bush's grandmother). In 1967, he entered Yale University. While at Yale, Dean discovered that he had an innate sympathy for the civil rights movement and the plight of the poor. He steered clear of radical protests and student demonstrations, later saying that he instinctively distrusted ideologues, but he also came to oppose the escalating Vietnam War.
Taxes & Spending: "I am a true fiscal conservative though," said Dean. "I cut taxes in Vermont, taking the highest municipal income tax (in New England), and making it the lowest." "The biggest problem with our economy right now is that Republicans don’t know how to manage money," started Dean, later saying the opposing party has the habit of borrowing, spending, borrowing, spending." "In a Dean Administration, the Democratic Party would reclaim the mantle of fiscal responsibility."
"Social justice can only be achieved through a balanced budget", Dean said. He thinks he will appeal to fiscal conservatives, because he is the only Democrat in the field who has balanced a budget:
From his campaign site: "To help finance this effort (Universal Health Care) , we must repeal the President's tax cuts -- which have thrown America back into the huge deficits of the 1980s -- and balance the federal budget. We cannot build crucial social programs without a solid financial foundation." "The first round of (Bush) tax cuts (with some exceptions in the estate and retirement areas) should be repealed."
Social Services Funding: Dean "Supports some faith-based initiatives because he believes that charities do very good work. However, he does not support giving tax money to organizations that do not abide by federal anti-discrimination laws. He stated that if elected, he would try and ensure that organizations that discriminate would not receive federal funding."
Welfare: Promotes "welfare reform" "...we resist attempts by President Bush to dictate to the states how we run our ... welfare programs..." He condemned the Bush administration's welfare reform proposal, or more formally the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) reauthorization bill, as "a step backwards for everyone who believes in welfare reform." "We are particularly concerned about the extraordinary rigidity of the 40-hour work week [requirement]," Vermont was the first state in the nation to reform welfare on a statewide basis. Then-Governor Dean's initiative requires work and limits the amount of time a welfare recipient can receive assistance, but supports children and their working parents with health care, child care, and job training.
The bulk of those tax cuts went to those in the top 2 percent of income earners - people like Ken Lay and other corporate plunderers of the American economy. Left behind are middle class and working people, many of whom, in exchange for their tiny tax cuts, have lost their jobs or their health insurance - casualties of an economy limping along under the weight of Bush's economic policies. Our children will pay the bills for all this financial recklessness.
Security & Terrorism: "I would repeal that part and any other part of the PATRIOT Act that violates our Constitution."
Foreign Affairs: Dean said that he's the only candidate with previous experience in government who has opposed the war with Iraq from the start. "I have serious concerns about the increasingly unilateralist approach to foreign policy we have seen from the current Administration, particularly in the President's posture toward Iraq."
The Washington Post reported: Former Vermont governor Howard Dean has taken a consistently hard line against Bush's policy, telling Democratic audiences around the country that, unlike his rivals for the nomination, he would have opposed the congressional resolution authorizing Bush to go to war. But his vociferous opposition comes with a caveat. "If the evidence is there [that Iraq possesses weapons of mass destruction]," Dean said yesterday, "we would go to the Security Council, and if they refused to act, we would have to do so in 60 days." Dean opined that by enunciating pre-emption as a doctrine, Bush had inadvertently encouraged the Chinese to claim a "clear and present danger" in Taiwan.
In a "The Nation" magazine interview, he stated that he favors the formation of a Palestinian state, but believes that terrorism must end before that happens.
Education: Warned against "harebrained" ideas like school vouchers. Dean criticized the president's education plan, called the "no child left behind" act, by calling it the "no school board left standing" act. "Everybody running for president except for me and the Republicans got together on this wonderful bipartisan bill that is the second largest unfunded mandate in the history of education," he said.
"The federal government must recognize that an enormous number of our teachers are retiring in the coming years and provide incentives to inspire a new generation of great teachers."
Healthcare: From his campaign site: "As a doctor, I understand the fear facing families without health insurance. As a Governor, I am proud that virtually every child under 18 and more than 90 percent of adults in Vermont are eligible for health coverage. But as a country, the United States can do better on this front."
Said his plan of providing universal health insurance through expanding Medicaid and added it could be paid for with half of the president's tax cut. The country needs health insurance, says the doctor, yet Congress is arguing about the wrong thing, the patients' bill of rights, which would not make the slightest difference because "it would not bring health insurance to a single American."
Social Security: Dean criticized the idea of allowing private individuals to invest their Social Security savings in the stock market. "Allowing individuals to invest money in the stock market is foolish," he said. "Social Security is not a retirement program; it is a safety net for people so they don't starve." Dean linked the tax cuts to homeland security, saying, "The enormous tax cuts are not only undercutting Medicaid and Social Security, Mr. President. The enormous tax cuts that you have passed are actually undercutting our ability to defend ourselves."
Illicit Drugs: We need to treat drugs as a public health problem.. That's difficult to do. We actually don't have a lot of drug users in our jails; the ones we have in there are drug users who are also dealers. Jails not a particularly effective way to get people to stop using drugs; treatment is.
In an interview with "The Nation" magazine, Dr. Dean--who believes in a scientific fact based approach--would direct the FDA to evaluate medical marijuana. Whatever the conclusion, he'd accept their findings.
As Governor, Dean adopted the National Governors Association policy, which in part said, "The nation’s Governors urge the President and Congress to fully fund drug and alcohol abuse education, drug courts, treatment, prevention, and law enforcement efforts, including the initiative to combat and clean up methamphetamine production laboratories, at the state and local levels of government."
Ex-felons' Voting Rights: Information regarding his position on this issue has not been found at this time.
Gun Policy: Dean received an "A" grade from the NRA
Abortion Policy: Dean explained that in his opinion, the government should have no say in what a woman should choose. "It’s none of the government’s business."
Environmental Policy: Dean received was not rated by the League of Conservation Voters. He is courting the environmental vote. He was the keynote speaker at the California League of Conservation Voters lunch. "As President, I would bring my commitment to our environment to the White House."
He would not sign the Kyoto global warming treaty as it stands, but negotiate to eliminate the current exemptions for under-developed countries' production of greenhouse gases.
Regarding Bush's environmental policy Dean said, "It's appalling. Essentially what he's done is try to undo most of the environmental policy in the last 50 years. Drilling in the national parks is essentially his solution to the energy dilemma. Gutting the Clean Air Act and daring to call it Clear Skies. Opening wilderness to more logging under the guise of Healthy Forests. He's even threatening our national monuments. The assaults are sweeping."
Minority Issues: In her Profile in Courage Essay Contest Prize Winning Essay, Stephanie Dziczek of Holmes High School, Covington, Kentucky, wrote "Minority champions like Dean, with the courage to hold principle and respect for all people above common opinion, are the reasons that today women can vote, African Americans are legally protected from discrimination, and homosexuals can engage in civil unions." Increased the number minorities in judgeships and other prominent positions.
Civil Liberties: Dean has not been scored by The American Civil Liberties Union. Dean, who is running on his civil rights record as governor, is well-known for signing Vermont's law legalizing gay civil unions.
The Vermont Civil Liberties Union was alarmed by then Gov. Howard Dean's call for a "re-evaluation" of some of America's civil liberties following this week's terrorist attacks. Dean said "I think there are going to be debates about what can be said where, what can be printed where, what kind of freedom of movement people have and whether it's OK for a policeman to ask for your ID just because you're walking down the street." Later Dean backed away when asked about them later. He pointed out that he was not advocating for such restrictions, merely predicting what he believed would be the salient issues in the debate. When asked what, if any, impingement he supported, Dean had no answer. "Right now (Sept 23, 2001) we have to let things cool off. Proposed changes in the Constitution ought to be served cold."
07-30-2003 12:23 AM ET (US)
In the quiz below I come out 95% a match with Howard Dean. These are some of his positions:
Howard Dean, (Democrat) Former Governor of Vermont Dean is a physician who previously shared a medical practice with his wife, Dr. Judith Steinberg. He's the father of two nearly grown children. Dean was born into a wealthy New York family in 1948. The oldest of four brothers and the son of a wealthy, conservative stockbroker, he grew up in the Hamptons and the Upper-East side where he attended elite private schools. (His grandmother was a bridesmaid to President Bush's grandmother). In 1967, he entered Yale University. While at Yale, Dean discovered that he had an innate sympathy for the civil rights movement and the plight of the poor. He steered clear of radical protests and student demonstrations, later saying that he instinctively distrusted ideologues, but he also came to oppose the escalating Vietnam War.
Taxes & Spending: "I am a true fiscal conservative though," said Dean. "I cut taxes in Vermont, taking the highest municipal income tax (in New England), and making it the lowest." "The biggest problem with our economy right now is that Republicans don’t know how to manage money," started Dean, later saying the opposing party has the habit of borrowing, spending, borrowing, spending." "In a Dean Administration, the Democratic Party would reclaim the mantle of fiscal responsibility."
"Social justice can only be achieved through a balanced budget", Dean said. He thinks he will appeal to fiscal conservatives, because he is the only Democrat in the field who has balanced a budget:
From his campaign site: "To help finance this effort (Universal Health Care) , we must repeal the President's tax cuts -- which have thrown America back into the huge deficits of the 1980s -- and balance the federal budget. We cannot build crucial social programs without a solid financial foundation." "The first round of (Bush) tax cuts (with some exceptions in the estate and retirement areas) should be repealed."
Social Services Funding: Dean "Supports some faith-based initiatives because he believes that charities do very good work. However, he does not support giving tax money to organizations that do not abide by federal anti-discrimination laws. He stated that if elected, he would try and ensure that organizations that discriminate would not receive federal funding."
Welfare: Promotes "welfare reform" "...we resist attempts by President Bush to dictate to the states how we run our ... welfare programs..." He condemned the Bush administration's welfare reform proposal, or more formally the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) reauthorization bill, as "a step backwards for everyone who believes in welfare reform." "We are particularly concerned about the extraordinary rigidity of the 40-hour work week [requirement]," Vermont was the first state in the nation to reform welfare on a statewide basis. Then-Governor Dean's initiative requires work and limits the amount of time a welfare recipient can receive assistance, but supports children and their working parents with health care, child care, and job training.
The bulk of those tax cuts went to those in the top 2 percent of income earners - people like Ken Lay and other corporate plunderers of the American economy. Left behind are middle class and working people, many of whom, in exchange for their tiny tax cuts, have lost their jobs or their health insurance - casualties of an economy limping along under the weight of Bush's economic policies. Our children will pay the bills for all this financial recklessness.
Security & Terrorism: "I would repeal that part and any other part of the PATRIOT Act that violates our Constitution."
Foreign Affairs: Dean said that he's the only candidate with previous experience in government who has opposed the war with Iraq from the start. "I have serious concerns about the increasingly unilateralist approach to foreign policy we have seen from the current Administration, particularly in the President's posture toward Iraq."
The Washington Post reported: Former Vermont governor Howard Dean has taken a consistently hard line against Bush's policy, telling Democratic audiences around the country that, unlike his rivals for the nomination, he would have opposed the congressional resolution authorizing Bush to go to war. But his vociferous opposition comes with a caveat. "If the evidence is there [that Iraq possesses weapons of mass destruction]," Dean said yesterday, "we would go to the Security Council, and if they refused to act, we would have to do so in 60 days." Dean opined that by enunciating pre-emption as a doctrine, Bush had inadvertently encouraged the Chinese to claim a "clear and present danger" in Taiwan.
In a "The Nation" magazine interview, he stated that he favors the formation of a Palestinian state, but believes that terrorism must end before that happens.
Education: Warned against "harebrained" ideas like school vouchers. Dean criticized the president's education plan, called the "no child left behind" act, by calling it the "no school board left standing" act. "Everybody running for president except for me and the Republicans got together on this wonderful bipartisan bill that is the second largest unfunded mandate in the history of education," he said.
"The federal government must recognize that an enormous number of our teachers are retiring in the coming years and provide incentives to inspire a new generation of great teachers."
Healthcare: From his campaign site: "As a doctor, I understand the fear facing families without health insurance. As a Governor, I am proud that virtually every child under 18 and more than 90 percent of adults in Vermont are eligible for health coverage. But as a country, the United States can do better on this front."
Said his plan of providing universal health insurance through expanding Medicaid and added it could be paid for with half of the president's tax cut. The country needs health insurance, says the doctor, yet Congress is arguing about the wrong thing, the patients' bill of rights, which would not make the slightest difference because "it would not bring health insurance to a single American."
Social Security: Dean criticized the idea of allowing private individuals to invest their Social Security savings in the stock market. "Allowing individuals to invest money in the stock market is foolish," he said. "Social Security is not a retirement program; it is a safety net for people so they don't starve." Dean linked the tax cuts to homeland security, saying, "The enormous tax cuts are not only undercutting Medicaid and Social Security, Mr. President. The enormous tax cuts that you have passed are actually undercutting our ability to defend ourselves."
Illicit Drugs: We need to treat drugs as a public health problem.. That's difficult to do. We actually don't have a lot of drug users in our jails; the ones we have in there are drug users who are also dealers. Jails not a particularly effective way to get people to stop using drugs; treatment is.
In an interview with "The Nation" magazine, Dr. Dean--who believes in a scientific fact based approach--would direct the FDA to evaluate medical marijuana. Whatever the conclusion, he'd accept their findings.
As Governor, Dean adopted the National Governors Association policy, which in part said, "The nation’s Governors urge the President and Congress to fully fund drug and alcohol abuse education, drug courts, treatment, prevention, and law enforcement efforts, including the initiative to combat and clean up methamphetamine production laboratories, at the state and local levels of government."
Ex-felons' Voting Rights: Information regarding his position on this issue has not been found at this time.
Gun Policy: Dean received an "A" grade from the NRA
Abortion Policy: Dean explained that in his opinion, the government should have no say in what a woman should choose. "It’s none of the government’s business."
Environmental Policy: Dean received was not rated by the League of Conservation Voters. He is courting the environmental vote. He was the keynote speaker at the California League of Conservation Voters lunch. "As President, I would bring my commitment to our environment to the White House."
He would not sign the Kyoto global warming treaty as it stands, but negotiate to eliminate the current exemptions for under-developed countries' production of greenhouse gases.
Regarding Bush's environmental policy Dean said, "It's appalling. Essentially what he's done is try to undo most of the environmental policy in the last 50 years. Drilling in the national parks is essentially his solution to the energy dilemma. Gutting the Clean Air Act and daring to call it Clear Skies. Opening wilderness to more logging under the guise of Healthy Forests. He's even threatening our national monuments. The assaults are sweeping."
Minority Issues: In her Profile in Courage Essay Contest Prize Winning Essay, Stephanie Dziczek of Holmes High School, Covington, Kentucky, wrote "Minority champions like Dean, with the courage to hold principle and respect for all people above common opinion, are the reasons that today women can vote, African Americans are legally protected from discrimination, and homosexuals can engage in civil unions." Increased the number minorities in judgeships and other prominent positions.
Civil Liberties: Dean has not been scored by The American Civil Liberties Union. Dean, who is running on his civil rights record as governor, is well-known for signing Vermont's law legalizing gay civil unions.
The Vermont Civil Liberties Union was alarmed by then Gov. Howard Dean's call for a "re-evaluation" of some of America's civil liberties following this week's terrorist attacks. Dean said "I think there are going to be debates about what can be said where, what can be printed where, what kind of freedom of movement people have and whether it's OK for a policeman to ask for your ID just because you're walking down the street." Later Dean backed away when asked about them later. He pointed out that he was not advocating for such restrictions, merely predicting what he believed would be the salient issues in the debate. When asked what, if any, impingement he supported, Dean had no answer. "Right now (Sept 23, 2001) we have to let things cool off. Proposed changes in the Constitution ought to be served cold."
Keith Brekhus 38
07-30-2003 12:28 AM ET (US)
For what its worth I predict Bush will be reelected, but if the economy continues too be sluggish and the war in iraq drags on without resolution, the Democrats will be poised to take back the White House. Right now it looks like the Democrats have four candidates who could win the nomination.
1) former Vermont governor Howard Dean
2) Missouri Congressamn Dick Gephardt
3) Connecticut Senator and Gore's running mate in 2000 Joe Lieberman
4) Massachusetts Senator John Kerry
Personally I think Dean's campaign is the most innovative and I believe Dean, contrary to conventional wisdom, is the candidate who has the best shot to beat Bush in 2004.
07-30-2003 12:28 AM ET (US)
For what its worth I predict Bush will be reelected, but if the economy continues too be sluggish and the war in iraq drags on without resolution, the Democrats will be poised to take back the White House. Right now it looks like the Democrats have four candidates who could win the nomination.
1) former Vermont governor Howard Dean
2) Missouri Congressamn Dick Gephardt
3) Connecticut Senator and Gore's running mate in 2000 Joe Lieberman
4) Massachusetts Senator John Kerry
Personally I think Dean's campaign is the most innovative and I believe Dean, contrary to conventional wisdom, is the candidate who has the best shot to beat Bush in 2004.
Ann Stewart 39
07-30-2003 12:28 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 07-30-2003 01:07 AM
Thank you so much for the information you have given me. I have a few questions. Does anybody know if Dean is for or against abortion? I have always liked Dean as a candidate, but some of my group that has been in this debate for a few weeks now are very against abortion. What can you say to them on where Dean will stand on this issue and on the issue of stem cell research?
Also I am going to post Dean’s 16 questions. I would say who ever came up with that idea did a great job writing them.
OK Keith has answered the question on abortion.
07-30-2003 12:28 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 07-30-2003 01:07 AM
Thank you so much for the information you have given me. I have a few questions. Does anybody know if Dean is for or against abortion? I have always liked Dean as a candidate, but some of my group that has been in this debate for a few weeks now are very against abortion. What can you say to them on where Dean will stand on this issue and on the issue of stem cell research?
Also I am going to post Dean’s 16 questions. I would say who ever came up with that idea did a great job writing them.
OK Keith has answered the question on abortion.
Ann Stewart 40
07-30-2003 12:32 AM ET (US)
Thank you Keith Brekhus, ACW Capital Hill, Sinhdu and Bluets you are helping many people in this discussion group learn about Dean.
07-30-2003 12:32 AM ET (US)
Thank you Keith Brekhus, ACW Capital Hill, Sinhdu and Bluets you are helping many people in this discussion group learn about Dean.
Keith Brekhus 41
07-30-2003 09:49 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 07-30-2003 10:02 AM
Dean is pro-choice. Actually all nine Democratic contenders are. While I certainly wouldn't suggest anyone who is strongly opposed to abortion violate that by selecting a pro-choice candidate, I do think it is worth mentioning that more abortions were performed in this country during "pro-life" Reagan's 8 years in office than in "pro-choice" Clinton's two terms as the link below illustrates.
http://www.prolife-mcfl.org/Prolife/Aborti...ual%20Abortions.htm
There are several reasons for this but one is that when prenatal health services, social services, contraception and sex education are funded abortions decrease and when those services are less available abortions increase.
Since abortion laws are passed at the state level, the President has little impact on the rate they occur (and ironically it is not the President's position on abortion but the strength of the economy and the availability of prenatal care that makes the most difference). In any case, neither Reagan nor either Bush has had the political courage to lead a concerted effort to outlaw abortion because they know it is a politically divisive issue that could lose them votes if they actively campaign to abolish it.
However, the Republican controlled House and Senate did recently pass a bill that would end most third trimester abortions (quite a few Democrats voted for this late-term ban as well).
Like I said, if one is pro-life to the point that they absolutely will not vote for any pro-choice candidate as a matter of conscience, I respect that. On the other hand, since the President generally doesn't set a nation's policy towards abortion but is the central policy maker in military matters, if you oppose Bush's handling of foreign policy you might consider voting for Dean or another Democrat to change the course, even if you are pro-life.
07-30-2003 09:49 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 07-30-2003 10:02 AM
Dean is pro-choice. Actually all nine Democratic contenders are. While I certainly wouldn't suggest anyone who is strongly opposed to abortion violate that by selecting a pro-choice candidate, I do think it is worth mentioning that more abortions were performed in this country during "pro-life" Reagan's 8 years in office than in "pro-choice" Clinton's two terms as the link below illustrates.
http://www.prolife-mcfl.org/Prolife/Aborti...ual%20Abortions.htm
There are several reasons for this but one is that when prenatal health services, social services, contraception and sex education are funded abortions decrease and when those services are less available abortions increase.
Since abortion laws are passed at the state level, the President has little impact on the rate they occur (and ironically it is not the President's position on abortion but the strength of the economy and the availability of prenatal care that makes the most difference). In any case, neither Reagan nor either Bush has had the political courage to lead a concerted effort to outlaw abortion because they know it is a politically divisive issue that could lose them votes if they actively campaign to abolish it.
However, the Republican controlled House and Senate did recently pass a bill that would end most third trimester abortions (quite a few Democrats voted for this late-term ban as well).
Like I said, if one is pro-life to the point that they absolutely will not vote for any pro-choice candidate as a matter of conscience, I respect that. On the other hand, since the President generally doesn't set a nation's policy towards abortion but is the central policy maker in military matters, if you oppose Bush's handling of foreign policy you might consider voting for Dean or another Democrat to change the course, even if you are pro-life.
Brad 42
07-30-2003 01:25 PM ET (US)
I believe that Howard Dean is not into all the political jargon. When he speaks I can understand what he is saying to me. I think all the other candidates are just trying to act like they are smart. Howard Dean seems more real. I support Dean.
07-30-2003 01:25 PM ET (US)
I believe that Howard Dean is not into all the political jargon. When he speaks I can understand what he is saying to me. I think all the other candidates are just trying to act like they are smart. Howard Dean seems more real. I support Dean.
Ann Stewart 43
07-30-2003 01:39 PM ET (US)
Brad I will admit information on Dean on the web is much more user friendly. I tried to get information on John Kerry summarized for this site and it reads like a computerized person might have written it. The information on Dean is a lot more warmer, such as sounding like it came from a human with a soul and a heart beat. I also love that Dean’s official site is a blog. It is so nice to for the general public to be able to ask questions and get a response.
Keith Thank you so much. You have been a wonderful source of information for this site. I know when I need information on Dean you are the man to come to. May I have your email address? You can send it to 4stew@prodigdy.net . When the group and I have more questions I will come to you.
07-30-2003 01:39 PM ET (US)
Brad I will admit information on Dean on the web is much more user friendly. I tried to get information on John Kerry summarized for this site and it reads like a computerized person might have written it. The information on Dean is a lot more warmer, such as sounding like it came from a human with a soul and a heart beat. I also love that Dean’s official site is a blog. It is so nice to for the general public to be able to ask questions and get a response.
Keith Thank you so much. You have been a wonderful source of information for this site. I know when I need information on Dean you are the man to come to. May I have your email address? You can send it to 4stew@prodigdy.net . When the group and I have more questions I will come to you.
Eileen Woodward 44
07-30-2003 01:42 PM ET (US)
If you want to know more about Howard Dean, just go to his website "deanforamerica.com" and get all the information you need. Click on the official blog site and keep up with the daily workings of the campaign. He's the one to beat Bush, no question about it
07-30-2003 01:42 PM ET (US)
If you want to know more about Howard Dean, just go to his website "deanforamerica.com" and get all the information you need. Click on the official blog site and keep up with the daily workings of the campaign. He's the one to beat Bush, no question about it
Lisa DC 45
07-30-2003 01:44 PM ET (US)
If you are interested in Howard Dean, I suggest you check out the official website: http://www.deanforamerica.com
You can get all his positions, speeches, etc. I agree with you on the war—it is heartbreaking and frustrating. But rest assured Dean is the only one who is standing up and telling the truth about this stuff right now. Check him out!
07-30-2003 01:44 PM ET (US)
If you are interested in Howard Dean, I suggest you check out the official website: http://www.deanforamerica.com
You can get all his positions, speeches, etc. I agree with you on the war—it is heartbreaking and frustrating. But rest assured Dean is the only one who is standing up and telling the truth about this stuff right now. Check him out!
Ann Stewart 46
07-30-2003 01:45 PM ET (US)
I got some Emails from supporters of Dean's so I thought I would post them here for the group.
07-30-2003 01:45 PM ET (US)
I got some Emails from supporters of Dean's so I thought I would post them here for the group.
Jennifer (Bush Supporter) 47
07-30-2003 02:20 PM ET (US)
I still support Bush He is the only one against abortion. Pro-choice is just a word or phase that has been made up so people can kill in the name of convince. It’s not a choice. It’s a baby. It’s a life. Abortion is murder.
07-30-2003 02:20 PM ET (US)
I still support Bush He is the only one against abortion. Pro-choice is just a word or phase that has been made up so people can kill in the name of convince. It’s not a choice. It’s a baby. It’s a life. Abortion is murder.
Martin 48
07-30-2003 02:31 PM ET (US)
Anybody but Bush. I would vote for a dead corpse before I would vote Bush. Anybody but Bush.
07-30-2003 02:31 PM ET (US)
Anybody but Bush. I would vote for a dead corpse before I would vote Bush. Anybody but Bush.
Ann Stewart 49
07-30-2003 02:46 PM ET (US)
Hey Martin and Jenny
I'm glad you found the new web site. I see you have 2 totally differnet views, but it's good that you both care about who represents our country. I care too.
Jenny other than the Abortion Issue can you tell me other reasons you support him?
And Martin have you not chosen a canidate yet? Just anybody but Bush? I don't think a dead corpse is running, but that is kind of funny. You must hate Bush or something huh? Why?
07-30-2003 02:46 PM ET (US)
Hey Martin and Jenny
I'm glad you found the new web site. I see you have 2 totally differnet views, but it's good that you both care about who represents our country. I care too.
Jenny other than the Abortion Issue can you tell me other reasons you support him?
And Martin have you not chosen a canidate yet? Just anybody but Bush? I don't think a dead corpse is running, but that is kind of funny. You must hate Bush or something huh? Why?
Jennifer 50
07-30-2003 03:25 PM ET (US)
Bush has tried to fight for the laws against abortion. He's the only one who has tried. I respect him for that. I think he has done a great job in deffending our country with Homeland Security. he set strong new standards for our country's security, and like Roger said he has tried to bring prayer back in our schools. He has been a great President.
07-30-2003 03:25 PM ET (US)
Bush has tried to fight for the laws against abortion. He's the only one who has tried. I respect him for that. I think he has done a great job in deffending our country with Homeland Security. he set strong new standards for our country's security, and like Roger said he has tried to bring prayer back in our schools. He has been a great President.
Ann Stewart 51
07-30-2003 05:04 PM ET (US)
You know Jenny, Bush really didn't change the law on abortion, except for 3rd term pregnancy abortions, but this was reported by Keith earlier. I hope you got to read it. I will repost it for you.
"Since abortion laws are passed at the state level, the President has little impact on the rate they occur (and ironically it is not the President's position on abortion but the strength of the economy and the availability of prenatal care that makes the most difference). In any case, neither Reagan nor either Bush has had the political courage to lead a concerted effort to outlaw abortion because they know it is a politically divisive issue that could lose them votes if they actively campaign to abolish it.
However, the Republican controlled House and Senate did recently pass a bill that would end most third trimester abortions (quite a few Democrats voted for this late-term ban as well).
Like I said, if one is pro-life to the point that they absolutely will not vote for any pro-choice candidate as a matter of conscience, I respect that. On the other hand, since the President generally doesn't set a nation's policy towards abortion but is the central policy maker in military matters, if you oppose Bush's handling of foreign policy you might consider voting for Dean or another Democrat to change the course, even if you are pro-life."
Also I was reading over Kerry's issues and I haven't found where he takes a strong stand on abortion either. I don't think any of the Democratic nominees take a strong stand on it.
But even if Bush is against abortion, he can't change it, there are to many pro-choice people in the general population, and I don't support Bush anymore because of the war and the economy problems. Bush could be against abortion, which I am too, but he is still quick to put our troops in harms way. Like right now he's sending our military to Liberia. Like we haven’t put our military men and women though enough pain and lost already, and let's just go ahead and spend a few more billion dollars on more military related war problems. When is Bush going to stop this spending and realize America is FLAT DEAD BROKE.
07-30-2003 05:04 PM ET (US)
You know Jenny, Bush really didn't change the law on abortion, except for 3rd term pregnancy abortions, but this was reported by Keith earlier. I hope you got to read it. I will repost it for you.
"Since abortion laws are passed at the state level, the President has little impact on the rate they occur (and ironically it is not the President's position on abortion but the strength of the economy and the availability of prenatal care that makes the most difference). In any case, neither Reagan nor either Bush has had the political courage to lead a concerted effort to outlaw abortion because they know it is a politically divisive issue that could lose them votes if they actively campaign to abolish it.
However, the Republican controlled House and Senate did recently pass a bill that would end most third trimester abortions (quite a few Democrats voted for this late-term ban as well).
Like I said, if one is pro-life to the point that they absolutely will not vote for any pro-choice candidate as a matter of conscience, I respect that. On the other hand, since the President generally doesn't set a nation's policy towards abortion but is the central policy maker in military matters, if you oppose Bush's handling of foreign policy you might consider voting for Dean or another Democrat to change the course, even if you are pro-life."
Also I was reading over Kerry's issues and I haven't found where he takes a strong stand on abortion either. I don't think any of the Democratic nominees take a strong stand on it.
But even if Bush is against abortion, he can't change it, there are to many pro-choice people in the general population, and I don't support Bush anymore because of the war and the economy problems. Bush could be against abortion, which I am too, but he is still quick to put our troops in harms way. Like right now he's sending our military to Liberia. Like we haven’t put our military men and women though enough pain and lost already, and let's just go ahead and spend a few more billion dollars on more military related war problems. When is Bush going to stop this spending and realize America is FLAT DEAD BROKE.
Jonathan in GA 52
07-30-2003 07:29 PM ET (US)
I'll start off by saying I'm a big Dean fan.
I'm 21, Male, and a Centrist Dem.
The president has very little power in the realm of abortion except when it comes to appointing supreme court justices.
Although I'm not an enthusiastic supporter of abortion, the alternative is unthinkable.
If Row v. Wade is overturned, you'll have some states outlawing abortion, some states legalizing it. Women driving across borders to get abortions. Poor girls getting illegal abortions performed.
It's a mess.
I trust a Doctor (Dean) to set high standards for health care and to get every American insured.
07-30-2003 07:29 PM ET (US)
I'll start off by saying I'm a big Dean fan.
I'm 21, Male, and a Centrist Dem.
The president has very little power in the realm of abortion except when it comes to appointing supreme court justices.
Although I'm not an enthusiastic supporter of abortion, the alternative is unthinkable.
If Row v. Wade is overturned, you'll have some states outlawing abortion, some states legalizing it. Women driving across borders to get abortions. Poor girls getting illegal abortions performed.
It's a mess.
I trust a Doctor (Dean) to set high standards for health care and to get every American insured.
Jonathan in GA 53
07-30-2003 07:30 PM ET (US)
Bush didn't change any late term abortion laws. Late term abortions are already illegal.
The partial birth abortion ban is extremely vague and will probably be overturned just as the Oregon state law was overturned.
07-30-2003 07:30 PM ET (US)
Bush didn't change any late term abortion laws. Late term abortions are already illegal.
The partial birth abortion ban is extremely vague and will probably be overturned just as the Oregon state law was overturned.
Allen Peters 54
07-30-2003 07:38 PM ET (US)
I am for Howard Dean because he is a moderate with intelligence, honesty and passion, somebody who stands up for what he believes and I believe can restore common sense and integrity to the leadership of this country. We are floundering under the current administration which wraps inself in misquided wars, the flag and the Marines while we go down the tubes nationally and internationally.
07-30-2003 07:38 PM ET (US)
I am for Howard Dean because he is a moderate with intelligence, honesty and passion, somebody who stands up for what he believes and I believe can restore common sense and integrity to the leadership of this country. We are floundering under the current administration which wraps inself in misquided wars, the flag and the Marines while we go down the tubes nationally and internationally.
three 55
07-30-2003 07:55 PM ET (US)
Abortion is not murder! Until the point of viability an embryo is not a baby, it is at most a potential. At the stage when most abortions are performed the embryo is a tiny mass of cells, and it is so Orwellian to call it murder. You might as well call masturbation murder (I guess Catholics even go that far). Deciding at what point an embryo acquires human rights is a difficult question, I'll grant you, but the point of viability is the only point that makes sense. Until then the potential child is part of the mother and her rights must prevail. The new child should acquire rights equal to the mother's rights only when it is capable of existing apart.
As for Homeland Security we are certainly much less safe now that Bush invaded Iraq, and anyone who thinks otherwise needs to find some new sources of information (turn off Fox, CNN, et al). America is now dispised around the world. Every child left orphaned or maimed by our bombs will grow up vowing revenge. Personally I'm ashamed of this once great nation. I never thought I'd live to see the day when the U.S. of A. sank to the status of imperialist invader. Killing civlilians is, if nothing else, simply a bad way to solve problems. Doesn't work! Never has. Why can't people see that bombing Baghdad is identical to bombing Baltimore; there is no such thing as "us" and "them", there is only us. Bush says we won the war! Oh Boy! What did we win? It's costing two billion dollars a month to be there, and we are stuck there, and our soldiers continue to die.
For the life of me I just can't understand how someone who is so against murder that they would refuse to remove a ball of cells from a mother that doesn't want it and can't love it or afford it, can at the same time condone the vicious killing of whole families including living children that are loved and wanted. Is it just because they're brown, and don't speak english? Anyone who really hates murder could not support such policies.
07-30-2003 07:55 PM ET (US)
Abortion is not murder! Until the point of viability an embryo is not a baby, it is at most a potential. At the stage when most abortions are performed the embryo is a tiny mass of cells, and it is so Orwellian to call it murder. You might as well call masturbation murder (I guess Catholics even go that far). Deciding at what point an embryo acquires human rights is a difficult question, I'll grant you, but the point of viability is the only point that makes sense. Until then the potential child is part of the mother and her rights must prevail. The new child should acquire rights equal to the mother's rights only when it is capable of existing apart.
As for Homeland Security we are certainly much less safe now that Bush invaded Iraq, and anyone who thinks otherwise needs to find some new sources of information (turn off Fox, CNN, et al). America is now dispised around the world. Every child left orphaned or maimed by our bombs will grow up vowing revenge. Personally I'm ashamed of this once great nation. I never thought I'd live to see the day when the U.S. of A. sank to the status of imperialist invader. Killing civlilians is, if nothing else, simply a bad way to solve problems. Doesn't work! Never has. Why can't people see that bombing Baghdad is identical to bombing Baltimore; there is no such thing as "us" and "them", there is only us. Bush says we won the war! Oh Boy! What did we win? It's costing two billion dollars a month to be there, and we are stuck there, and our soldiers continue to die.
For the life of me I just can't understand how someone who is so against murder that they would refuse to remove a ball of cells from a mother that doesn't want it and can't love it or afford it, can at the same time condone the vicious killing of whole families including living children that are loved and wanted. Is it just because they're brown, and don't speak english? Anyone who really hates murder could not support such policies.
Ann Stewart 56
07-30-2003 07:56 PM ET (US)
Hey Thanks Jonathan in GA and Allen Peters
I am debating on whom to vote for myself and I have heard a lot of good things about Dean. Thanks for letting me know that info Jonathan. It hasn't been stated to me like that before. It's good to educate other people about this election. Sometimes people will listen to other supporters before they will listen to the candidates. Public opinion is a powerful part of general perception and persuasion. That’s what this discussion group was started for. So we could learn about the candidates and President Bush’s differences in simple understandable terms. Here any information or feelings you wish to talk about is welcome in this open to the public discussion. Thanks for the comments when some of the other group checks in they will be updated on your info you presented. I do agree with Brad. I understand candidate Dean’s statements on issues better than others. I don’t enjoy political Jargon.
07-30-2003 07:56 PM ET (US)
Hey Thanks Jonathan in GA and Allen Peters
I am debating on whom to vote for myself and I have heard a lot of good things about Dean. Thanks for letting me know that info Jonathan. It hasn't been stated to me like that before. It's good to educate other people about this election. Sometimes people will listen to other supporters before they will listen to the candidates. Public opinion is a powerful part of general perception and persuasion. That’s what this discussion group was started for. So we could learn about the candidates and President Bush’s differences in simple understandable terms. Here any information or feelings you wish to talk about is welcome in this open to the public discussion. Thanks for the comments when some of the other group checks in they will be updated on your info you presented. I do agree with Brad. I understand candidate Dean’s statements on issues better than others. I don’t enjoy political Jargon.
Ann Stewart 57
07-30-2003 07:59 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 07-30-2003 08:00 PM
I agree with your statments on the war three. I have family in the Military and I want a President that is going to care about keeping them alive. I want the troops home.
07-30-2003 07:59 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 07-30-2003 08:00 PM
I agree with your statments on the war three. I have family in the Military and I want a President that is going to care about keeping them alive. I want the troops home.
Chris 58
07-30-2003 08:05 PM ET (US)
It doesn't matter who wins the election. There will be another recount in Florida like it was with the last 2 elections, and Bush will win the election again. I think Bush will cheat in Florida just like he did last time. That brother of his will rig the election. Gore won last the election in 2000last time anyway, Bush should not be president.
4 years later we're still Bush Wacked
07-30-2003 08:05 PM ET (US)
It doesn't matter who wins the election. There will be another recount in Florida like it was with the last 2 elections, and Bush will win the election again. I think Bush will cheat in Florida just like he did last time. That brother of his will rig the election. Gore won last the election in 2000last time anyway, Bush should not be president.
4 years later we're still Bush Wacked
three 59
07-30-2003 08:16 PM ET (US)
Chris is a cynic, but he has a point. I too am worried that they will stop at nothing to ensure their survival.
07-30-2003 08:16 PM ET (US)
Chris is a cynic, but he has a point. I too am worried that they will stop at nothing to ensure their survival.
Roger 60
07-30-2003 09:31 PM ET (US)
I believe in Bush. He is a true Christian Man. He is against gays in the military. That was a crazy thing that Clinton wanted to do and I’m glad Bush put a stop to that nonsense. Now his wife Hilary wants to give gay people that live together in the same home the same benefits as married people. I hope Bush has puts a stop to that craziness too. Bush is a fine man, who believes in God and good more Christian morals for our country. He’s trying to bring prayer back in our schools. He’s the only president that would stand up against terrorism. Clinton sit back and did nothing. That’s why 9/11 happened.
07-30-2003 09:31 PM ET (US)
I believe in Bush. He is a true Christian Man. He is against gays in the military. That was a crazy thing that Clinton wanted to do and I’m glad Bush put a stop to that nonsense. Now his wife Hilary wants to give gay people that live together in the same home the same benefits as married people. I hope Bush has puts a stop to that craziness too. Bush is a fine man, who believes in God and good more Christian morals for our country. He’s trying to bring prayer back in our schools. He’s the only president that would stand up against terrorism. Clinton sit back and did nothing. That’s why 9/11 happened.
Little Ann 61
07-30-2003 10:51 PM ET (US)
For what it's worth, on the abortion issue, I think you really can't say how you feel about it until you are faced with an unplanned pregnancy.
I used to think abortion was wrong and I'd never have one. I didn't condemn others who did but I couldn't fathom the idea myself. Well, I ended up with a pregnancy in this totally untenable situation. My partner's children from an earlier marraige could not have handled it. My parents could not have handled it. I would have ended up estranged from everyone I loved and with a child for whom I could not provide and whom I couldn't bear to give up. It was the most difficult decision I have ever made to terminate my pregnancy at 6 weeks, but it was the right one. I now have carried two beautiful children and have a strong happy family that includes my teenage stepchildren.
The vast majority of women do not end their pregnancies lightly. The only thing that every person can agree on from both sides of this issue is that the rate of unwanted pregnancy should be brought to an absolute minimum. All the available information shows that the only effective way to achieve this is through sex education and access to birth control, which allows women to make a concious choice whether to bear a child.
Bush may be a Christian man but his actions blocking funding for international family planning will cause thousands of women to have abortions or to carry children for whom noone can properly care. Many of these women will have no access to prenatal care and some will effectively receive death sentances themselves when they develop fistula from treatable complications during delivery. Please educate yourselves to the reality of this situation, all you who favor Bush on this issue.
07-30-2003 10:51 PM ET (US)
For what it's worth, on the abortion issue, I think you really can't say how you feel about it until you are faced with an unplanned pregnancy.
I used to think abortion was wrong and I'd never have one. I didn't condemn others who did but I couldn't fathom the idea myself. Well, I ended up with a pregnancy in this totally untenable situation. My partner's children from an earlier marraige could not have handled it. My parents could not have handled it. I would have ended up estranged from everyone I loved and with a child for whom I could not provide and whom I couldn't bear to give up. It was the most difficult decision I have ever made to terminate my pregnancy at 6 weeks, but it was the right one. I now have carried two beautiful children and have a strong happy family that includes my teenage stepchildren.
The vast majority of women do not end their pregnancies lightly. The only thing that every person can agree on from both sides of this issue is that the rate of unwanted pregnancy should be brought to an absolute minimum. All the available information shows that the only effective way to achieve this is through sex education and access to birth control, which allows women to make a concious choice whether to bear a child.
Bush may be a Christian man but his actions blocking funding for international family planning will cause thousands of women to have abortions or to carry children for whom noone can properly care. Many of these women will have no access to prenatal care and some will effectively receive death sentances themselves when they develop fistula from treatable complications during delivery. Please educate yourselves to the reality of this situation, all you who favor Bush on this issue.
Ann Stewart 62
07-30-2003 11:07 PM ET (US)
I read in Time Magazine that the Internet was a big boost in Howard Dean's campaign. Does anybody think that’s true? I have experienced a really good blog at Dean’s official site. Using a blog, Who came up with that idea? I think the people who are campaigning for Dean are very creative like it was stated in Time. I can ask specific question and get an answer, and I like that. I also believe Brad by stating Dean seems more real. I have heard that before.
Roger I think the gay community would think differently than that, but you are entitled to your opinion, and all opinions are welcome here, I don’ think because Bush is for gays not being in the military or having the same benefits as married couples, means he’s a man of God. Who says Dean or Kerry isn’t a man of God? How can you say Bush is such a Christian? For all you know Bush could’ve killed his own sister or some poor dude or something and ate them for breakfast. Which I of course don’t think he did, but what I’m trying to say is you don’t really know he’s such a wonderful Christian. Have you ever met him? Do you really know his character? Just because a man claims to be a Christian doesn’t mean he is, or it doesn’t mean he lives by the standards of Christian faith that you believe in.
Also I get tried of hearing war is the Bible. Just because it’s in the Bible, don’t mean we should do it. Peace is in the Bible too. Did Bush read that part?
07-30-2003 11:07 PM ET (US)
I read in Time Magazine that the Internet was a big boost in Howard Dean's campaign. Does anybody think that’s true? I have experienced a really good blog at Dean’s official site. Using a blog, Who came up with that idea? I think the people who are campaigning for Dean are very creative like it was stated in Time. I can ask specific question and get an answer, and I like that. I also believe Brad by stating Dean seems more real. I have heard that before.
Roger I think the gay community would think differently than that, but you are entitled to your opinion, and all opinions are welcome here, I don’ think because Bush is for gays not being in the military or having the same benefits as married couples, means he’s a man of God. Who says Dean or Kerry isn’t a man of God? How can you say Bush is such a Christian? For all you know Bush could’ve killed his own sister or some poor dude or something and ate them for breakfast. Which I of course don’t think he did, but what I’m trying to say is you don’t really know he’s such a wonderful Christian. Have you ever met him? Do you really know his character? Just because a man claims to be a Christian doesn’t mean he is, or it doesn’t mean he lives by the standards of Christian faith that you believe in.
Also I get tried of hearing war is the Bible. Just because it’s in the Bible, don’t mean we should do it. Peace is in the Bible too. Did Bush read that part?
Ann Stewart 63
07-30-2003 11:12 PM ET (US)
Thanks for sharing your story with us little Ann. It shows it from a real woman's point of view who has already been though it.
Thank you so much for sharing.
07-30-2003 11:12 PM ET (US)
Thanks for sharing your story with us little Ann. It shows it from a real woman's point of view who has already been though it.
Thank you so much for sharing.
Michael Bohannon 64
07-30-2003 11:39 PM ET (US)
I don't know who can win against Bush to be honest. I voted for Bush, but I've been so frustrated with his myoptic view of the world. I've always voted conservatively, but I have in recent years been moving toward the middle. In actuality, I think I'm in political limbo like the rest of America. I don't think that Americans are necessarily apathetic as is usually charged; I think that they are just jaded by the two-party system. I wish there was a viable third party if not just to keep the Republicans and Democrats somewhat honest. Whatever the results of this upcoming election, I know for my part I am voting against George Bush.
I think what bothers me most about the war is the way the American people just fell in line with the Bush administration's propaganda, and propoganda is the right word to use here. The causes for our pre-emptive attack were so ambiguous and changed so many times that I still don't know what the real motivation was. Yet, the American people changed as the propaganda changed. Whether or not you ultimately supported the war, there should of at least been some questioning. To question the reasons for going to war is not being unAmerican, in fact, that's the essence of being American. We are supposed to hold our elected officials accountable for their decisions. Yet, if you voiced even as much as a concern, not an outright condemnation, you were branded a Hussein supporter. We're talking about war here. Even with the best intentions, war has devastating effects- it always does. My fear is not so much the canidates and our government, but the American people. I fear that as long as the economy is booming and we can enjoy a high standard of living,we the American people don't really care what happens to the rest of the world, and much worse, don't really care what our government does to the rest of the world.
07-30-2003 11:39 PM ET (US)
I don't know who can win against Bush to be honest. I voted for Bush, but I've been so frustrated with his myoptic view of the world. I've always voted conservatively, but I have in recent years been moving toward the middle. In actuality, I think I'm in political limbo like the rest of America. I don't think that Americans are necessarily apathetic as is usually charged; I think that they are just jaded by the two-party system. I wish there was a viable third party if not just to keep the Republicans and Democrats somewhat honest. Whatever the results of this upcoming election, I know for my part I am voting against George Bush.
I think what bothers me most about the war is the way the American people just fell in line with the Bush administration's propaganda, and propoganda is the right word to use here. The causes for our pre-emptive attack were so ambiguous and changed so many times that I still don't know what the real motivation was. Yet, the American people changed as the propaganda changed. Whether or not you ultimately supported the war, there should of at least been some questioning. To question the reasons for going to war is not being unAmerican, in fact, that's the essence of being American. We are supposed to hold our elected officials accountable for their decisions. Yet, if you voiced even as much as a concern, not an outright condemnation, you were branded a Hussein supporter. We're talking about war here. Even with the best intentions, war has devastating effects- it always does. My fear is not so much the canidates and our government, but the American people. I fear that as long as the economy is booming and we can enjoy a high standard of living,we the American people don't really care what happens to the rest of the world, and much worse, don't really care what our government does to the rest of the world.
Ann Stewart 65
07-31-2003 12:19 AM ET (US)
Michael you made some really good points.
Thanks for your comments.
I was once a supporter of Bush too.
Now I could kick myself.
07-31-2003 12:19 AM ET (US)
Michael you made some really good points.
Thanks for your comments.
I was once a supporter of Bush too.
Now I could kick myself.
Chris 66
07-31-2003 12:26 AM ET (US)
I never supported Bush. I voted for Gore. Gore should be President now. I have true Republican beliefs though. I'm thinking about voting for Dean. Thanks for this site Ann. This site has helped me learn about the People who are running. I read the issues.
07-31-2003 12:26 AM ET (US)
I never supported Bush. I voted for Gore. Gore should be President now. I have true Republican beliefs though. I'm thinking about voting for Dean. Thanks for this site Ann. This site has helped me learn about the People who are running. I read the issues.
Alison Brown 68
07-31-2003 02:41 AM ET (US)
The mainstream press and the more conservative Democrats have been saying that Howard Dean is not a viable candidate, but I disagree. I am a huge Dean supporter, and find his approach to politics inspiring. Disillusioned voters finally have someone worth fighting for! He is proud to stand up for what he believes in even when his position is unpopular, like his opposition to the war in Iraq. Many thought that such a stance was equivalent to political suicide just a few months ago, but as public opinion is shifting other Democrats (Kerry, for one) are racing to claim that they never REALLY supported an invasion.
Dean is doing very well in primary polls in New Hampshire and Iowa (some polls have him ahead of Kerry). The latest Zogby poll had him tied for first place with 12% of Democrat voters, even though his name recognition is only 39% as opposed to the 82% of Lieberman. As more people start to hear about him, those numbers are certain to go up.
I think Dean has a very good chance of winning not only the primary, but also the general election against Bush. Some of his issues, like civil unions and repealing the Bush tax cut to pay off the deficit, will probably scare off some voters... But his biggest strength (and the one that will lead him to victory) is that he has the ability to energize people who had given up on the political process altogether.
Check out http://www.deanforamerica.com for detailed information on Dean and the issues, and don't forget http://www.blogforamerica.com, possibly the coolest and most addictive campaign website ever! Reading the thousands of comments from ardent Dean supporters is sure to inspire you!
07-31-2003 02:41 AM ET (US)
The mainstream press and the more conservative Democrats have been saying that Howard Dean is not a viable candidate, but I disagree. I am a huge Dean supporter, and find his approach to politics inspiring. Disillusioned voters finally have someone worth fighting for! He is proud to stand up for what he believes in even when his position is unpopular, like his opposition to the war in Iraq. Many thought that such a stance was equivalent to political suicide just a few months ago, but as public opinion is shifting other Democrats (Kerry, for one) are racing to claim that they never REALLY supported an invasion.
Dean is doing very well in primary polls in New Hampshire and Iowa (some polls have him ahead of Kerry). The latest Zogby poll had him tied for first place with 12% of Democrat voters, even though his name recognition is only 39% as opposed to the 82% of Lieberman. As more people start to hear about him, those numbers are certain to go up.
I think Dean has a very good chance of winning not only the primary, but also the general election against Bush. Some of his issues, like civil unions and repealing the Bush tax cut to pay off the deficit, will probably scare off some voters... But his biggest strength (and the one that will lead him to victory) is that he has the ability to energize people who had given up on the political process altogether.
Check out http://www.deanforamerica.com for detailed information on Dean and the issues, and don't forget http://www.blogforamerica.com, possibly the coolest and most addictive campaign website ever! Reading the thousands of comments from ardent Dean supporters is sure to inspire you!
Keith Brekhus 69
07-31-2003 09:27 AM ET (US)
Dean can win the election regardless of what happens in Florida. His path to 270 electoral votes includes taking all the states Gore won plus Nevada and West Virginia.
http://www.uselectionatlas.org/USPRESIDENT/frametextj.html
If that happens then Florida doesn't matter.
07-31-2003 09:27 AM ET (US)
Dean can win the election regardless of what happens in Florida. His path to 270 electoral votes includes taking all the states Gore won plus Nevada and West Virginia.
http://www.uselectionatlas.org/USPRESIDENT/frametextj.html
If that happens then Florida doesn't matter.
Keith Brekhus 70
07-31-2003 10:31 AM ET (US)
I agree with Alison. Dean comes across as a straight-shooter. Whether you agree or disagree with him, you have to admit his candor is refreshing. He was against the war when it wasn't fashionable to be against the war. He bravely signed into law a provision in Vermont that allows same-sex civil unions.
He has shown political courage like no other candidate in the race. While Gephardt, Kerry and Lieberman were sheepishly following the president into the Iraq quagmire, Dean was showing leadership by speaking out at a time when speaking out was not popular.
The Democrats lost a bunch of House and Senate seats in 2002 because they were too timid to take a stand against Bush's war or his economic policies. Given the choice between Bush and Bush-Lite, beer drinkers everywhere will choose Bush :-). Given a real choice, not many prefer Bush. Dean offers a real choice.
07-31-2003 10:31 AM ET (US)
I agree with Alison. Dean comes across as a straight-shooter. Whether you agree or disagree with him, you have to admit his candor is refreshing. He was against the war when it wasn't fashionable to be against the war. He bravely signed into law a provision in Vermont that allows same-sex civil unions.
He has shown political courage like no other candidate in the race. While Gephardt, Kerry and Lieberman were sheepishly following the president into the Iraq quagmire, Dean was showing leadership by speaking out at a time when speaking out was not popular.
The Democrats lost a bunch of House and Senate seats in 2002 because they were too timid to take a stand against Bush's war or his economic policies. Given the choice between Bush and Bush-Lite, beer drinkers everywhere will choose Bush :-). Given a real choice, not many prefer Bush. Dean offers a real choice.
Wendy MA. 71
07-31-2003 10:57 AM ET (US)
I am from Massachusetts. John Kerry has done so much for us. He’s been an impartation to us and has made us proud to work for him and support him. He will make us even more proud when he becomes President. There is no body in the Democratic race that has done as much for improving employment, heath care, and the environment. John is a great Senator, and he will be an even greater President.
07-31-2003 10:57 AM ET (US)
I am from Massachusetts. John Kerry has done so much for us. He’s been an impartation to us and has made us proud to work for him and support him. He will make us even more proud when he becomes President. There is no body in the Democratic race that has done as much for improving employment, heath care, and the environment. John is a great Senator, and he will be an even greater President.
Alison Brown 72
07-31-2003 03:34 PM ET (US)
Wendy, Kerry seems like a good guy, and he has a good record in Massachusetts, but I have to point out that there is a Democrat with an even better one. Dean balanced every budget while he was governor of Vermont, started a health care program that now covers something like 98% of children in that state, and saved huge amounts of land from development. Kerry can't beat that!
07-31-2003 03:34 PM ET (US)
Wendy, Kerry seems like a good guy, and he has a good record in Massachusetts, but I have to point out that there is a Democrat with an even better one. Dean balanced every budget while he was governor of Vermont, started a health care program that now covers something like 98% of children in that state, and saved huge amounts of land from development. Kerry can't beat that!
Albert 73
07-31-2003 04:00 PM ET (US)
Everybody here seems to be forgetting that Joe Lieberman is still very much a big contender in this election. You and the media could all be jumping the gun on who is going to win the democratic primary.
07-31-2003 04:00 PM ET (US)
Everybody here seems to be forgetting that Joe Lieberman is still very much a big contender in this election. You and the media could all be jumping the gun on who is going to win the democratic primary.
Albert 74
07-31-2003 04:03 PM ET (US)
Joe Lieberman would be the first Jewish President if he makes it to the Presidency.
07-31-2003 04:03 PM ET (US)
Joe Lieberman would be the first Jewish President if he makes it to the Presidency.
Keith Brekhus 75
07-31-2003 04:28 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 07-31-2003 04:29 PM
Right now I think one can argue that it is still a four way race. While Dean has the most momentum, Kerry, Gephardt and Lieberman are polling well too and many people are still undecided.
Incidentally, if Dean won we would have the first Jewish first lady. Howard Dean's wife is Jewish and like Howard, she is also a medical doctor.
07-31-2003 04:28 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 07-31-2003 04:29 PM
Right now I think one can argue that it is still a four way race. While Dean has the most momentum, Kerry, Gephardt and Lieberman are polling well too and many people are still undecided.
Incidentally, if Dean won we would have the first Jewish first lady. Howard Dean's wife is Jewish and like Howard, she is also a medical doctor.
Leanne 76
07-31-2003 05:02 PM ET (US)
I really needed the Tax refund that Bush just gave for Families with children.
I needed it to pay bills.
Bush has been the only president that has given us these wonderful tax breaks for families with children..
So do any of U know if any of the Democratic nominees will be willing to give tax cuts too?
Democrats seem 2 tax poor people a lot.
We should ask ourselves if a democrat gets elected, will we be able to pay our taxes?
07-31-2003 05:02 PM ET (US)
I really needed the Tax refund that Bush just gave for Families with children.
I needed it to pay bills.
Bush has been the only president that has given us these wonderful tax breaks for families with children..
So do any of U know if any of the Democratic nominees will be willing to give tax cuts too?
Democrats seem 2 tax poor people a lot.
We should ask ourselves if a democrat gets elected, will we be able to pay our taxes?
Keith Brekhus 77
07-31-2003 05:26 PM ET (US)
True cost of Bush's policies: $44 trillion debt
Bush tells us that his tax cuts are returning "your" money back to you. If that's the case, who "owns" the $44 trillion in debt his policies will inflict on our nation?
And no, that number is not liberal partisan hyperbole -- it was determined by Bush's Treasury Department:
from the Financial Times...
The Bush administration has shelved a report commissioned by the Treasury that shows the US currently faces a future of chronic federal budget deficits totalling at least $44,200bn in current US dollars.
The study, the most comprehensive assessment of how the US government is at risk of being overwhelmed by the "baby boom" generation's future healthcare and retirement costs, was commissioned by then-Treasury secretary Paul O'Neill.
But the Bush administration chose to keep the findings out of the annual budget report for fiscal year 2004, published in February, as the White House campaigned for a tax-cut package that critics claim will expand future deficits.
The study asserts that sharp tax increases, massive spending cuts or a painful mix of both are unavoidable if the US is to meet benefit promises to future generations. It estimates that closing the gap would require the equivalent of an immediate and permanent 66 per cent across-the-board income tax increase.
Uh oh -- how to explain this away? Wasn't the tax cut supposed to boost the economy, leading to the shrinking of the defict?
When the Treasury Department's own studies show tax raises are needed to rescue the nation from incomprehensible debt, pushing and signing a tax cut is the height of irresponsibility.
And the economy, while showing anemic growth (1.9 percent in Q1), is still bleeding jobs.
About 3 million jobs have been lost since Bush took office. New jobless claims remain at troubling levels -- over the magical 400,000 mark for 13 weeks straight. While the number of people receiving continuing benefits is at 3.76 million -- the highest level in 18 months.
Bush's initial tax cuts did nothing for the economy except sink it further into the red. The states will be burdened to pick up the tab for the feds, services will be cut savagely, or we will be saddled with perpetual debt.
07-31-2003 05:26 PM ET (US)
True cost of Bush's policies: $44 trillion debt
Bush tells us that his tax cuts are returning "your" money back to you. If that's the case, who "owns" the $44 trillion in debt his policies will inflict on our nation?
And no, that number is not liberal partisan hyperbole -- it was determined by Bush's Treasury Department:
from the Financial Times...
The Bush administration has shelved a report commissioned by the Treasury that shows the US currently faces a future of chronic federal budget deficits totalling at least $44,200bn in current US dollars.
The study, the most comprehensive assessment of how the US government is at risk of being overwhelmed by the "baby boom" generation's future healthcare and retirement costs, was commissioned by then-Treasury secretary Paul O'Neill.
But the Bush administration chose to keep the findings out of the annual budget report for fiscal year 2004, published in February, as the White House campaigned for a tax-cut package that critics claim will expand future deficits.
The study asserts that sharp tax increases, massive spending cuts or a painful mix of both are unavoidable if the US is to meet benefit promises to future generations. It estimates that closing the gap would require the equivalent of an immediate and permanent 66 per cent across-the-board income tax increase.
Uh oh -- how to explain this away? Wasn't the tax cut supposed to boost the economy, leading to the shrinking of the defict?
When the Treasury Department's own studies show tax raises are needed to rescue the nation from incomprehensible debt, pushing and signing a tax cut is the height of irresponsibility.
And the economy, while showing anemic growth (1.9 percent in Q1), is still bleeding jobs.
About 3 million jobs have been lost since Bush took office. New jobless claims remain at troubling levels -- over the magical 400,000 mark for 13 weeks straight. While the number of people receiving continuing benefits is at 3.76 million -- the highest level in 18 months.
Bush's initial tax cuts did nothing for the economy except sink it further into the red. The states will be burdened to pick up the tab for the feds, services will be cut savagely, or we will be saddled with perpetual debt.
Keith Brekhus 78
07-31-2003 05:33 PM ET (US)
The hidden costs of Bush's federal tax cuts (copied from Steve Gillard at Dailykos.com web blog):
while federal taxes are being cut for some, the massive increase in state and local taxes, due in part to an utter lack of federal relief and federal budget cuts for mandated programs, are hiking your taxes.
It doesn't matter if Bush cuts your federal taxes if your property and sales taxes climb, costing you hundreds of dollars more a year. Any federal refund will be more than gobbled up by local and state hikes on everything from parking tickets to hunting licenses.
Because the Bush Administration was completely uninterested in offering aid to states and localities, the states, which cannot print money, can only raise costs to cover the services that people want.
For nearly two decades the GOP has hammered the theme that lower taxes are good. The Dems have never, until recently, explained that there is a cost for this: which is lower services.
In New York, the governor, instead of looking at the state's dire fiscal condition and working with the legislature to raise taxes and cover costs, he wanted to place 4,000 slot machines around the state to raise money. Slot machines. Our governor, while amazingly lazy, is not stupid. Of course, he was angling to work for fellow Yalie George Bush, but he wasn't going to be able to make the cut.
But the point is this: federal tax cuts cost states money. They cost citizens money. While the President is talking about cutting taxes, the governors have to do all the heavy lifting and fund the programs which people demand.
It's time to shift the argument. Lower federal taxes not only mean higher state taxes in bad times, it means a lower standard of living. It means prisoners in your streets, schools operating four days a week, higher sales taxes, higher property taxes, dirtier streets and fewer teachers. States may have management issues and have overspent during good times, but the lack of federal support means that there is no cushion for bad times and states catch it in the neck.
Low taxes may not be bad, but low services are. There is a limit past which no state can go without making life worse for people in a real, concrete and defined way. A few hundred dollars is going to the credit card company, not the economy. All that money, combined in an aid to states and locality grant means keeping libraries open, more cops, more teachers, more children in health care programs. All these things cost money.
At the end of the day, you need to ask: do you want a federal tax refund and convicts released early from jail or aid to the states and localities which could prevent the worst budget cuts? I think most people might pass on the $300 to keep from firing teachers and emptying jails.
Steve Gilliard
07-31-2003 05:33 PM ET (US)
The hidden costs of Bush's federal tax cuts (copied from Steve Gillard at Dailykos.com web blog):
while federal taxes are being cut for some, the massive increase in state and local taxes, due in part to an utter lack of federal relief and federal budget cuts for mandated programs, are hiking your taxes.
It doesn't matter if Bush cuts your federal taxes if your property and sales taxes climb, costing you hundreds of dollars more a year. Any federal refund will be more than gobbled up by local and state hikes on everything from parking tickets to hunting licenses.
Because the Bush Administration was completely uninterested in offering aid to states and localities, the states, which cannot print money, can only raise costs to cover the services that people want.
For nearly two decades the GOP has hammered the theme that lower taxes are good. The Dems have never, until recently, explained that there is a cost for this: which is lower services.
In New York, the governor, instead of looking at the state's dire fiscal condition and working with the legislature to raise taxes and cover costs, he wanted to place 4,000 slot machines around the state to raise money. Slot machines. Our governor, while amazingly lazy, is not stupid. Of course, he was angling to work for fellow Yalie George Bush, but he wasn't going to be able to make the cut.
But the point is this: federal tax cuts cost states money. They cost citizens money. While the President is talking about cutting taxes, the governors have to do all the heavy lifting and fund the programs which people demand.
It's time to shift the argument. Lower federal taxes not only mean higher state taxes in bad times, it means a lower standard of living. It means prisoners in your streets, schools operating four days a week, higher sales taxes, higher property taxes, dirtier streets and fewer teachers. States may have management issues and have overspent during good times, but the lack of federal support means that there is no cushion for bad times and states catch it in the neck.
Low taxes may not be bad, but low services are. There is a limit past which no state can go without making life worse for people in a real, concrete and defined way. A few hundred dollars is going to the credit card company, not the economy. All that money, combined in an aid to states and locality grant means keeping libraries open, more cops, more teachers, more children in health care programs. All these things cost money.
At the end of the day, you need to ask: do you want a federal tax refund and convicts released early from jail or aid to the states and localities which could prevent the worst budget cuts? I think most people might pass on the $300 to keep from firing teachers and emptying jails.
Steve Gilliard
Ann Stewart 79
07-31-2003 05:40 PM ET (US)
Dear Leanne and Keith
Leanne I heard the same thing you have just said from other families who got the same tax refund, than I also heard what Keith is saying too, about how bad Bush is putting America in debt. I just got off of work and I am now signing on and I am so happy to see how well the discussion is going. I am learning a lot from this discussion and I hope other people are too. I am going to build a comments page for each candidate and place the most interesting and informative comments on the pages.
Thank you all so much for participating.
07-31-2003 05:40 PM ET (US)
Dear Leanne and Keith
Leanne I heard the same thing you have just said from other families who got the same tax refund, than I also heard what Keith is saying too, about how bad Bush is putting America in debt. I just got off of work and I am now signing on and I am so happy to see how well the discussion is going. I am learning a lot from this discussion and I hope other people are too. I am going to build a comments page for each candidate and place the most interesting and informative comments on the pages.
Thank you all so much for participating.
Keith Brekhus 80
07-31-2003 05:52 PM ET (US)
As Governor of Vermont Howard Dean raised the state's minimum wage twice, cut taxes once and balanced the state's budget consistently.
While Dean opposes the current wave of federal tax cuts as fiscally irresponsible, he had a record as a fiscally conservative Governor who raised the living standard of low-income workers in his state but still managed to balance the state's budget so that tax cuts could be made responsibly without incurring debt or cutting essential services.
I do think Gephardt's health care proposal would be so expensive that he would have to raise a lot of taxes to pay for it, but I don't think Lieberman, Dean or Kerry would unduly saddle poor people with excessive new taxes...they would merely return the top marginal tax rate to 39% instead of 33%...this would primarily effect only those who are affluent.
07-31-2003 05:52 PM ET (US)
As Governor of Vermont Howard Dean raised the state's minimum wage twice, cut taxes once and balanced the state's budget consistently.
While Dean opposes the current wave of federal tax cuts as fiscally irresponsible, he had a record as a fiscally conservative Governor who raised the living standard of low-income workers in his state but still managed to balance the state's budget so that tax cuts could be made responsibly without incurring debt or cutting essential services.
I do think Gephardt's health care proposal would be so expensive that he would have to raise a lot of taxes to pay for it, but I don't think Lieberman, Dean or Kerry would unduly saddle poor people with excessive new taxes...they would merely return the top marginal tax rate to 39% instead of 33%...this would primarily effect only those who are affluent.
Chris 81
07-31-2003 07:41 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 07-31-2003 07:45 PM
I remember when Bill Clinton stated he over taxed America. I think that could happen again too. I think Dean could be a good president, but it might not be a good thing to change Presidents in the middle of a crisis like the one we have right now with Iraq.
Bush is handling this terrible situation. If we put another man in office, it might mess up what Bush has already started and is tiring to achieve. It may not be a good idea to put another man in there right now. Who knows if they will handle the peace process right in Iraq?
PS this is Chris R. not the other Chris posting on this page.
There is too many Chris's in the world
07-31-2003 07:41 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 07-31-2003 07:45 PM
I remember when Bill Clinton stated he over taxed America. I think that could happen again too. I think Dean could be a good president, but it might not be a good thing to change Presidents in the middle of a crisis like the one we have right now with Iraq.
Bush is handling this terrible situation. If we put another man in office, it might mess up what Bush has already started and is tiring to achieve. It may not be a good idea to put another man in there right now. Who knows if they will handle the peace process right in Iraq?
PS this is Chris R. not the other Chris posting on this page.
There is too many Chris's in the world
Ann Stewart 82
07-31-2003 08:01 PM ET (US)
Dear Chris
I understand your concern, but I believe that a lot of the Middle East’s general population, believes President Bush is the cause of all the turmoil in Iraq. If we put someone else in the Presidency I believe a new President may be seen as neutral on the war and have a better chance of rebuilding foreigner relationships with other countries that are so highly damaged.
I support Bush on a lot of issues, but the issues I don’t agree with him on are to big for me to ignore. The War with Iraq is one of them. The economy is the other.
07-31-2003 08:01 PM ET (US)
Dear Chris
I understand your concern, but I believe that a lot of the Middle East’s general population, believes President Bush is the cause of all the turmoil in Iraq. If we put someone else in the Presidency I believe a new President may be seen as neutral on the war and have a better chance of rebuilding foreigner relationships with other countries that are so highly damaged.
I support Bush on a lot of issues, but the issues I don’t agree with him on are to big for me to ignore. The War with Iraq is one of them. The economy is the other.
Vanessa 83
07-31-2003 09:27 PM ET (US)
I used to have a position were people ask me question about Europe when I lived in Germany. I am a Republican for right know. The Bush family did a whole lot for us Germans and I never will forget these. The fall of the Berlin Wall was a special moment for me. I will support bush for one more year. Then America gets to vote again and bush has to show his work what he has done if I am satisfied I would vote again for him, but I also have to look what the other candidates have to over. They are not bad either. Maybe you find here more democrats then republicans because dr. Gupta is a democrat.
07-31-2003 09:27 PM ET (US)
I used to have a position were people ask me question about Europe when I lived in Germany. I am a Republican for right know. The Bush family did a whole lot for us Germans and I never will forget these. The fall of the Berlin Wall was a special moment for me. I will support bush for one more year. Then America gets to vote again and bush has to show his work what he has done if I am satisfied I would vote again for him, but I also have to look what the other candidates have to over. They are not bad either. Maybe you find here more democrats then republicans because dr. Gupta is a democrat.
Ann Stewart 84
07-31-2003 09:59 PM ET (US)
Does anybody have comments on Candidate Kerry? I need comments for his page. I also need comments on any other of the Candidates, if you know something about them, it would sure help me out on building this web site.
07-31-2003 09:59 PM ET (US)
Does anybody have comments on Candidate Kerry? I need comments for his page. I also need comments on any other of the Candidates, if you know something about them, it would sure help me out on building this web site.
Keith Brekhus 85
07-31-2003 10:18 PM ET (US)
Here is the lowdown on John Kerry
Sentator John Kerry (Democrat, Massachusetts) John Kerry was born on December 11, 1943. A graduate of Yale, entered the Navy, serving in Vietnam. He received a Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, and three awards of the Purple Heart for his service in combat. Later, Kerry co-founded the Vietnam Veterans of America and became a spokesperson for the Vietnam Veterans Against the War. In 1984, afer winning election as Lieutenant Governor in 1982, Kerry ran and was first elected to serve in the United States Senate. John Kerry is married to heiress Teresa Heinz. He has two daughters, Alexandra and Vanessa.
Taxes & Spending: Based on ratings from taxpayer advocacy groups such as National Taxpayers Union and Americans for Tax Reform, this candidate shares very little of their views. According to the Concord Coalition, he is agrees with slightly less than half their positions on balanced budget issue. On his site he calls for "a fair reshaping of estate taxes so no family owned small business is sold just to pay Uncle Sam."
While not calling for a formal national job policy, John Kerry (according to his site "supports efforts that put America back to work. He backed efforts to restore $31 billion in highway cuts made by the Bush Administration last year, which threatened 300,000 jobs. And he supports creating American jobs and renewing our cities through building infrastructure, school construction and modernization, tax credits and cleaning up polluted areas in our country."
Social Services Funding: In a voice vote, as a member of the Senate Finance Committee approved the mark-up of the Charity Aid, Recovery, and Empowerment (CARE) Act. The bill heads to the full Senate.
Welfare: The Children's Defense Fund, an organization concerned how poverty and welfare cuts effect children and families, recently gave him a score of 91%. BIPAC, the Business-Industry Political Action Committee gave Kerry a score of 0%.
Security & Terrorism: Voted "yes" on HR 3162, Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism (USA PATRIOT) Act of 2001.
Voted "yes" on the "Visa Entry Reform Act of 2001", a bill to strengthen counter-terrorism efforts by imposing restrictions on student visas and among other things, it creates a centralized 'lookout' database.
Foreign Affairs: Voted "yes" on H.J.RES.114, Authorization for the Use of Military Force Against Iraq, a resolution that would authorize the use of force against Iraq. The administration would be required to report to Congress that diplomatic options have been exhausted before, or within 48 hours after military action has started. Every 60 days the president would also be required to submit a progress report to Congress.
"I know from my own trips to Israel that the majority of the Israeli people understand and expect that one day there will be a Palestinian state. Their frustration is that they do not see a committed partner in peace on the Palestinian side. Palestinians must stop the violence - this is the fundamental building block of the peace process. The Palestinian leadership must be reformed, not only for the future of the Palestinian people but also for the sake of peace. I believe Israel would respond to this new partner after all, Israel has already indicated its willingness to freeze settlements and to move toward the establishment of a Palestinian state as part of a comprehensive peace process."
Regarding Bush's new strike first policy: "I believe we always have a preemptive right." Kerry has more recently been critical of the Bush's hawkish stance. Kerry has spoken against a preemptive and unilateral war.
Education: Kerry opposes school vouchers, saying they gloss over a crisis in the schools. He says the gap between suburban and urban schools is ''separate and unequal'' and more insidious than segregation was in its day. He backs increased flexibility for school administrators to dismiss teachers. He supports "efforts to expand public school choice programs and support for charter schools".
Kerry announced a plan that includes a service-for-college program that would offer students four years of public college tuition in exchange for two years of community service. Voted "yes" on an amendment that would increase the tax deduction for college tuition costs from $5,000 to $12,000 and increase the tax credit on student loan interest from $500 to $1,000.
Healthcare: "We need a strong patient's bill of rights and we need it now, and we will not rest until every single American has affordable health coverage that no bureaucrat can take away."
Plans universal health care proposal.
Voted "no" on banning human cloning. (Bill S. 1601 on Feb 11, 1998)
Social Security: Voted "no" on Social Security Lockbox & limiting national debt. This amendment offered by Sen. Abraham (R-MI) that would have created a Social Security "lockbox" and establish limits on the public debt.
According to his senate web site, "Senator Kerry supported a real Social Security lockbox to protect the Social Security program from raids on its resources. Senator Kerry opposed Republican efforts to pass a phony Social Security lockbox that did nothing for Medicare, did not adequately protect Social Security, and established annual public debt limits that risked default. He opposed Republican efforts to include a trap door in lockbox legislation-any legislation that Republicans label "Social Security reform" could use Social Security surpluses for any number of purposes unrelated to paying Social Security benefits, including privatizing Social Security or paying for tax cuts."
Illicit Drugs: Voted "no" on S 625, a bill to increase penalties on certain drug-related crimes.
Ex-felons' Voting Rights: Voted "yes" on this issue.
Gun Policy: He received "F" from the NRA, and 100% from The Coalition to Stop Gun Violence
Abortion Policy: He received a 100% score from Planned Parenthood and 0% from the National Right to Life Committee.
Environmental Policy: Kerry received 92% from the League of Conservation Voters.
Minority Issues: He received a 100% score from the NAACP.
Civil Liberties: He received a 50% score from The American Civil Liberties Union.
07-31-2003 10:18 PM ET (US)
Here is the lowdown on John Kerry
Sentator John Kerry (Democrat, Massachusetts) John Kerry was born on December 11, 1943. A graduate of Yale, entered the Navy, serving in Vietnam. He received a Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V, and three awards of the Purple Heart for his service in combat. Later, Kerry co-founded the Vietnam Veterans of America and became a spokesperson for the Vietnam Veterans Against the War. In 1984, afer winning election as Lieutenant Governor in 1982, Kerry ran and was first elected to serve in the United States Senate. John Kerry is married to heiress Teresa Heinz. He has two daughters, Alexandra and Vanessa.
Taxes & Spending: Based on ratings from taxpayer advocacy groups such as National Taxpayers Union and Americans for Tax Reform, this candidate shares very little of their views. According to the Concord Coalition, he is agrees with slightly less than half their positions on balanced budget issue. On his site he calls for "a fair reshaping of estate taxes so no family owned small business is sold just to pay Uncle Sam."
While not calling for a formal national job policy, John Kerry (according to his site "supports efforts that put America back to work. He backed efforts to restore $31 billion in highway cuts made by the Bush Administration last year, which threatened 300,000 jobs. And he supports creating American jobs and renewing our cities through building infrastructure, school construction and modernization, tax credits and cleaning up polluted areas in our country."
Social Services Funding: In a voice vote, as a member of the Senate Finance Committee approved the mark-up of the Charity Aid, Recovery, and Empowerment (CARE) Act. The bill heads to the full Senate.
Welfare: The Children's Defense Fund, an organization concerned how poverty and welfare cuts effect children and families, recently gave him a score of 91%. BIPAC, the Business-Industry Political Action Committee gave Kerry a score of 0%.
Security & Terrorism: Voted "yes" on HR 3162, Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism (USA PATRIOT) Act of 2001.
Voted "yes" on the "Visa Entry Reform Act of 2001", a bill to strengthen counter-terrorism efforts by imposing restrictions on student visas and among other things, it creates a centralized 'lookout' database.
Foreign Affairs: Voted "yes" on H.J.RES.114, Authorization for the Use of Military Force Against Iraq, a resolution that would authorize the use of force against Iraq. The administration would be required to report to Congress that diplomatic options have been exhausted before, or within 48 hours after military action has started. Every 60 days the president would also be required to submit a progress report to Congress.
"I know from my own trips to Israel that the majority of the Israeli people understand and expect that one day there will be a Palestinian state. Their frustration is that they do not see a committed partner in peace on the Palestinian side. Palestinians must stop the violence - this is the fundamental building block of the peace process. The Palestinian leadership must be reformed, not only for the future of the Palestinian people but also for the sake of peace. I believe Israel would respond to this new partner after all, Israel has already indicated its willingness to freeze settlements and to move toward the establishment of a Palestinian state as part of a comprehensive peace process."
Regarding Bush's new strike first policy: "I believe we always have a preemptive right." Kerry has more recently been critical of the Bush's hawkish stance. Kerry has spoken against a preemptive and unilateral war.
Education: Kerry opposes school vouchers, saying they gloss over a crisis in the schools. He says the gap between suburban and urban schools is ''separate and unequal'' and more insidious than segregation was in its day. He backs increased flexibility for school administrators to dismiss teachers. He supports "efforts to expand public school choice programs and support for charter schools".
Kerry announced a plan that includes a service-for-college program that would offer students four years of public college tuition in exchange for two years of community service. Voted "yes" on an amendment that would increase the tax deduction for college tuition costs from $5,000 to $12,000 and increase the tax credit on student loan interest from $500 to $1,000.
Healthcare: "We need a strong patient's bill of rights and we need it now, and we will not rest until every single American has affordable health coverage that no bureaucrat can take away."
Plans universal health care proposal.
Voted "no" on banning human cloning. (Bill S. 1601 on Feb 11, 1998)
Social Security: Voted "no" on Social Security Lockbox & limiting national debt. This amendment offered by Sen. Abraham (R-MI) that would have created a Social Security "lockbox" and establish limits on the public debt.
According to his senate web site, "Senator Kerry supported a real Social Security lockbox to protect the Social Security program from raids on its resources. Senator Kerry opposed Republican efforts to pass a phony Social Security lockbox that did nothing for Medicare, did not adequately protect Social Security, and established annual public debt limits that risked default. He opposed Republican efforts to include a trap door in lockbox legislation-any legislation that Republicans label "Social Security reform" could use Social Security surpluses for any number of purposes unrelated to paying Social Security benefits, including privatizing Social Security or paying for tax cuts."
Illicit Drugs: Voted "no" on S 625, a bill to increase penalties on certain drug-related crimes.
Ex-felons' Voting Rights: Voted "yes" on this issue.
Gun Policy: He received "F" from the NRA, and 100% from The Coalition to Stop Gun Violence
Abortion Policy: He received a 100% score from Planned Parenthood and 0% from the National Right to Life Committee.
Environmental Policy: Kerry received 92% from the League of Conservation Voters.
Minority Issues: He received a 100% score from the NAACP.
Civil Liberties: He received a 50% score from The American Civil Liberties Union.
Keith Brekhus 86
07-31-2003 10:22 PM ET (US)
The skinny on Joe Lieberman:
Senator Joseph Lieberman (Democrat, Connecticut) Born in Stamford, Connecticut on February 24, 1942 and attended public schools there. He received his bachelor's degree from Yale College in 1964 and his law degree from Yale Law School in 1967. Lieberman was elected to the Connecticut State Senate in 1970 and served there for 10 years, including the last 6 as Majority Leader. From 1982 to 1988, he served as Connecticut's 21st Attorney General. He is the author of four books. In the U.S. Senate, Lieberman became the Ranking Democratic Member of the Governmental Affairs Committee in January 1999. He is a member of the powerful Armed Services Committee, the Environment and Public Works Committee, and the Small Business Committee. Since 1995, he has been Chairman of the Democratic Leadership Council. Lieberman lives in New Haven with his wife Hadassah. They are the parents of four children: Matthew, Rebecca, Ethan and Hana.
Taxes & Spending: Based on ratings from taxpayer advocacy groups such as National Taxpayers Union and Americans for Tax Reform, this candidate shares very little of their views. According to the Concord Coalition, he is agrees with almost half their positions on the balanced budget issue.
Address to the Economic Club of Detroit on May 20, 2002 "The Need to Lead: The Case for a New Economic Growth Strategy". Lieberman said, "It’s about creating and protecting jobs for millions of Americans..."
Social Services Funding: He supports the President's faith-based initiatives.
Welfare: The Children's Defense Fund, an organization concerned how poverty and welfare cuts effect children and families, recently gave him a score of 91%. BIPAC, the Business-Industry Political Action Committee gave him a score of 0%.
Security & Terrorism: Voted "yes" on HR 3162, Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism (USA PATRIOT) Act of 2001.
He helped win Congressional approval for the creation of a 10-member, non-partisan citizens commission that will have subpoena power to investigate a broad range of issues such as immigration policy, aviation security, intelligence gaps, and the diplomatic record.
"Properly constituted, military tribunals can provide now what they provided in the past: a fair, impartial means of trying and, if appropriate, punishing those who violate the laws of war."
Voted "yes" on the "Visa Entry Reform Act of 2001", a bill to strengthen counter-terrorism efforts by imposing restrictions on student visas and among other things, it creates a centralized 'lookout' database.
Foreign Affairs: Lieberman was the lead Senate sponsor of a bipartisan resolution authorizing the President to use military force to eliminate the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction.
Said he backs President Bush's "call to action" at the United Nations against the threat represented by Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein. Said a solution to the Mideast conflict must include a "strong and peaceful" Palestinian state.
Education: Condemned the Bush Administration's "failure to provide sufficient funding for the No Child Left Behind Act, the historic K-12 education reform bill signed into law last year."
Voted "yes" on an amendment that would increase the tax deduction for college tuition costs from $5,000 to $12,000 and increase the tax credit on student loan interest from $500 to $1,000.
Announced on April 15, 2002 his intention to develop and introduce a major reform bill that will help make the precious promise of high quality higher education a reality for more Americans. It will focus on three areas: resources--so that we bring college within the reach of all American families, regardless of income; readiness--so that students are prepared for college when they graduate high school; and results--so that students, especially low-income students, graduate within six years and get into high-wage jobs.
Healthcare: According to his senate website, Lieberman "works to expand quality and affordable healthcare to all Americans and safeguard Medicare and Social Security for future generations."
Voted "no" on banning human cloning. (Bill S. 1601 on Feb 11, 1998)
Social Security: "Senator Joseph I. Lieberman who once supported Social Security Personal Retirement Accounts now says that Gov. George W. Bush’s plan to do so would "savage" Social Security by taking $1 trillion out of the nest egg that belongs to every worker in America." Voted "no" on HR 1259: Social Security and Medicare Safe Deposit Box Act of 1999.
Illicit Drugs: Voted "yes" on (S 625 /1999) to increase penalties on certain drug-related crimes. The amendment would specifically target the manufacturing or trafficking of amphetamines and methamphetamines and possession of powder cocaine. It would also set stronger penalties for dealing drugs to minors or near a school.
Ex-felons' Voting Rights: Voted "yes" on this issue.
Gun Policy: He received an "F" from the NRA, and 100% from The Coalition to Stop Gun Violence
Abortion Policy: He received 100% score from Planned Parenthood and a zero from the National Right to Life Committee.
Environmental Policy: He received a 100% score from the League of Conservation Voters.
"This (Bush) administration is conducting a campaign to eliminate numerous environmental, health and safety protections," Lieberman said. "We have seen - in the face of several environmental rules the administration tried to roll back two years ago - a disregard for the scientific record, the value of public participation in rule-making, and for established regulatory procedure."
Minority Issues: He received a 91% score from the NAACP.
Civil Liberties: He received a 25% score from The American Civil Liberties Union.
07-31-2003 10:22 PM ET (US)
The skinny on Joe Lieberman:
Senator Joseph Lieberman (Democrat, Connecticut) Born in Stamford, Connecticut on February 24, 1942 and attended public schools there. He received his bachelor's degree from Yale College in 1964 and his law degree from Yale Law School in 1967. Lieberman was elected to the Connecticut State Senate in 1970 and served there for 10 years, including the last 6 as Majority Leader. From 1982 to 1988, he served as Connecticut's 21st Attorney General. He is the author of four books. In the U.S. Senate, Lieberman became the Ranking Democratic Member of the Governmental Affairs Committee in January 1999. He is a member of the powerful Armed Services Committee, the Environment and Public Works Committee, and the Small Business Committee. Since 1995, he has been Chairman of the Democratic Leadership Council. Lieberman lives in New Haven with his wife Hadassah. They are the parents of four children: Matthew, Rebecca, Ethan and Hana.
Taxes & Spending: Based on ratings from taxpayer advocacy groups such as National Taxpayers Union and Americans for Tax Reform, this candidate shares very little of their views. According to the Concord Coalition, he is agrees with almost half their positions on the balanced budget issue.
Address to the Economic Club of Detroit on May 20, 2002 "The Need to Lead: The Case for a New Economic Growth Strategy". Lieberman said, "It’s about creating and protecting jobs for millions of Americans..."
Social Services Funding: He supports the President's faith-based initiatives.
Welfare: The Children's Defense Fund, an organization concerned how poverty and welfare cuts effect children and families, recently gave him a score of 91%. BIPAC, the Business-Industry Political Action Committee gave him a score of 0%.
Security & Terrorism: Voted "yes" on HR 3162, Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism (USA PATRIOT) Act of 2001.
He helped win Congressional approval for the creation of a 10-member, non-partisan citizens commission that will have subpoena power to investigate a broad range of issues such as immigration policy, aviation security, intelligence gaps, and the diplomatic record.
"Properly constituted, military tribunals can provide now what they provided in the past: a fair, impartial means of trying and, if appropriate, punishing those who violate the laws of war."
Voted "yes" on the "Visa Entry Reform Act of 2001", a bill to strengthen counter-terrorism efforts by imposing restrictions on student visas and among other things, it creates a centralized 'lookout' database.
Foreign Affairs: Lieberman was the lead Senate sponsor of a bipartisan resolution authorizing the President to use military force to eliminate the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction.
Said he backs President Bush's "call to action" at the United Nations against the threat represented by Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein. Said a solution to the Mideast conflict must include a "strong and peaceful" Palestinian state.
Education: Condemned the Bush Administration's "failure to provide sufficient funding for the No Child Left Behind Act, the historic K-12 education reform bill signed into law last year."
Voted "yes" on an amendment that would increase the tax deduction for college tuition costs from $5,000 to $12,000 and increase the tax credit on student loan interest from $500 to $1,000.
Announced on April 15, 2002 his intention to develop and introduce a major reform bill that will help make the precious promise of high quality higher education a reality for more Americans. It will focus on three areas: resources--so that we bring college within the reach of all American families, regardless of income; readiness--so that students are prepared for college when they graduate high school; and results--so that students, especially low-income students, graduate within six years and get into high-wage jobs.
Healthcare: According to his senate website, Lieberman "works to expand quality and affordable healthcare to all Americans and safeguard Medicare and Social Security for future generations."
Voted "no" on banning human cloning. (Bill S. 1601 on Feb 11, 1998)
Social Security: "Senator Joseph I. Lieberman who once supported Social Security Personal Retirement Accounts now says that Gov. George W. Bush’s plan to do so would "savage" Social Security by taking $1 trillion out of the nest egg that belongs to every worker in America." Voted "no" on HR 1259: Social Security and Medicare Safe Deposit Box Act of 1999.
Illicit Drugs: Voted "yes" on (S 625 /1999) to increase penalties on certain drug-related crimes. The amendment would specifically target the manufacturing or trafficking of amphetamines and methamphetamines and possession of powder cocaine. It would also set stronger penalties for dealing drugs to minors or near a school.
Ex-felons' Voting Rights: Voted "yes" on this issue.
Gun Policy: He received an "F" from the NRA, and 100% from The Coalition to Stop Gun Violence
Abortion Policy: He received 100% score from Planned Parenthood and a zero from the National Right to Life Committee.
Environmental Policy: He received a 100% score from the League of Conservation Voters.
"This (Bush) administration is conducting a campaign to eliminate numerous environmental, health and safety protections," Lieberman said. "We have seen - in the face of several environmental rules the administration tried to roll back two years ago - a disregard for the scientific record, the value of public participation in rule-making, and for established regulatory procedure."
Minority Issues: He received a 91% score from the NAACP.
Civil Liberties: He received a 25% score from The American Civil Liberties Union.
Keith Brekhus 87
07-31-2003 10:24 PM ET (US)
Dick Gephardt on the issues:
Representative Richard Gephardt, Democrat Missouri Born in 1941 in the same South St. Louis neighborhood he represents today, Missouri’s 3rd district. Graduated from Northwestern University and the University of Michigan Law School. Elected to represent Missouri's Third Congressional District in 1976. In 1984, Gephardt was elected Chairman of the House Democratic Caucus, the fourth-ranking leadership position in the House. In 1989, he was elected by his colleagues in the House to serve as their Majority Leader. Resigned as Majority Leader after the 2002 election. He has been married to Jane Byrnes Gephardt for more than three decades. They have three children: Matt, Chrissy and Katie.
Taxes & Spending: Based on ratings from taxpayer advocacy groups such as National Taxpayers Union and Americans for Tax Reform, this candidate shares very few of their views. According to the Concord Coalition, he is agrees with slightly less than a quarter of their positions on balanced budget issue. On his site he calls for "a fair reshaping of estate taxes so no family owned small business is sold just to pay Uncle Sam."
Social Services Funding: Voted "no" on HR 7 Community Solutions Act of 2001. Bill would allow religious organizations to compete equally with other non-governmental groups for federal funds to provide social service, and provide $13.3 billion in tax breaks for charitable giving over 10 years. Gephardt said he felt the bill represented a missed opportunity to help faith-based organizations, because they often tend to the most underprivileged in our society and are vital and irreplaceable to every community. However, he felt that the consequences of allowing groups to pre-empt civil rights protections, would make it easier for these groups to ignore fundamental principles of liberty and equality.
Welfare: The Children's Defense Fund, an organization concerned how poverty and welfare cuts effect children and families, recently gave him a score of 82%. BIPAC, the Business-Industry Political Action Committee gave him a score of 6%.
Security & Terrorism: Voted "yes" on HR 3162, Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism (USA PATRIOT) Act of 2001.
Voted "yes" on the "Visa Entry Reform Act of 2001", a bill to strengthen counter-terrorism efforts by imposing restrictions on student visas and among other things, it creates a centralized 'lookout' database.
Foreign Affairs: Voted "yes" on H.J.RES.114, Authorization for the Use of Military Force Against Iraq.
Suggested President Bush delay his proposal for creation of a Palestinian state in the midst of "barbaric suicide attacks against Israelis." "It is fine to set out the dream and the goal and to hope that will give people on the Palestinian side some hope," Gephardt said, as Bush worked on the proposal. "But it isn't going to change anything, in my view."
Education: "Vouchers drain funds from failing schools at the very moment when schools need these resources the most ... We must not allow 'reform' to erode the federal responsibility to support national priorities like helping disadvantaged students and putting a quality teacher in every classroom."
"We want to work together to recruit high- quality teachers and invest more in our schools while demanding more from them. We want to say to every student who wants to go to college and every worker who wants to update their skills the first $10,000 of your education should be tax deductible." - Democratic response to the State of the Union speech Jan 29, 2002
"The government needs to do more to help schools. We’ve agreed to fund 100,000 new teachers in grades one through three. The Clinton administration is trying to use federal dollars to help districts pay the costs on school construction bonds. We must fully fund Head Start and make it available to younger children. I believe more teachers, more classrooms, and reaching out to prepare students to learn are an appropriate way for the federal government to help schools cope." - An Even Better Place, by Dick Gephardt, p.157-58 Jul 2, 1999
Voted "yes" on requiring states to test students. No Child Left Behind Act of 2001 (Bill HR 1 ; vote number 2001-145 on May 23, 2001) Vote to pass a bill that would authorize $22.8 billion in education funding, a 29 percent increase from fiscal 2001. The bill would require states to test students to track progress.
We want to say to every student who wants to go to college and every worker who wants to update their skills the first $10,000 of your education should be tax deductible. - Democratic response to the State of the Union speech Jan 29, 2002
Healthcare: Providence Journal Bulletin reported om Jan 28, 2003 that Gephardt said in an interview that within a month or so he would propose a universal health-insurance plan that would cover the 42 million uninsured Americans.
Voted "no" on HR 2505 Human Cloning Prohibition Act of 2001. Bill would prohibit human cloning for either medical research or reproductive purposes.
Social Security: "We need to remember that stock values go down as well as up. In a prolonged bear market, the entire market may fall so far that it takes years to recover. Those who retire before the recovery may simply be out of luck. The stock market, in short, is no foolproof source of retirement security...Individual accounts can be part of the answer. But they should be voluntary and a supplement to Social Security, not a replacement for it."
Voted "yes" on strengthening the Social Security Lockbox. (Bill HR 1259 ; vote number 1999-163 on May 26, 1999) Amending the Social Security Lockbox bill to require that any budget surplus cannot be spent until the solvency of Social Security and Medicare is guaranteed.
Illicit Drugs: Voted "no" on prohibiting needle exchange & medical marijuana in DC. (Bill HR 3064 ; vote number 1999-504 on Oct 14, 1999) Bill would provide $429.1 million in funds for the District of Columbia and approves the District's $6.8 billion budget. Among other provisions, the bill prohibits the use of federal funds for needle exchange programs, prohibits implementing an approved ballot initiative to legalize the medicinal use of marijuana.
Ex-felons' Voting Rights: "As President Bush receives the commission's report, we hope he will finally provide real leadership and support for comprehensive election reform legislation," said Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle and House Minority Leader Richard Gephardt. In the report, states were asked to restore voting rights to convicted felons who have served full sentences. Bush backs the provision, aides said, noting that he signed legislation as governor of Texas moving up voting eligibility for felons.
Gun Policy: He received "F" from the NRA, and a 100 score from The Coalition to Stop Gun Violence
Abortion Policy: He received 100 score from Planned Parenthood and a zero from the National Right to Life Committee.
Environmental Policy: He received a 91 from the League of Conservation Voters.
Minority Issues: He received an 86% score from the NAACP.
Civil Liberties: He received 75% score from The American Civil Liberties Union.
07-31-2003 10:24 PM ET (US)
Dick Gephardt on the issues:
Representative Richard Gephardt, Democrat Missouri Born in 1941 in the same South St. Louis neighborhood he represents today, Missouri’s 3rd district. Graduated from Northwestern University and the University of Michigan Law School. Elected to represent Missouri's Third Congressional District in 1976. In 1984, Gephardt was elected Chairman of the House Democratic Caucus, the fourth-ranking leadership position in the House. In 1989, he was elected by his colleagues in the House to serve as their Majority Leader. Resigned as Majority Leader after the 2002 election. He has been married to Jane Byrnes Gephardt for more than three decades. They have three children: Matt, Chrissy and Katie.
Taxes & Spending: Based on ratings from taxpayer advocacy groups such as National Taxpayers Union and Americans for Tax Reform, this candidate shares very few of their views. According to the Concord Coalition, he is agrees with slightly less than a quarter of their positions on balanced budget issue. On his site he calls for "a fair reshaping of estate taxes so no family owned small business is sold just to pay Uncle Sam."
Social Services Funding: Voted "no" on HR 7 Community Solutions Act of 2001. Bill would allow religious organizations to compete equally with other non-governmental groups for federal funds to provide social service, and provide $13.3 billion in tax breaks for charitable giving over 10 years. Gephardt said he felt the bill represented a missed opportunity to help faith-based organizations, because they often tend to the most underprivileged in our society and are vital and irreplaceable to every community. However, he felt that the consequences of allowing groups to pre-empt civil rights protections, would make it easier for these groups to ignore fundamental principles of liberty and equality.
Welfare: The Children's Defense Fund, an organization concerned how poverty and welfare cuts effect children and families, recently gave him a score of 82%. BIPAC, the Business-Industry Political Action Committee gave him a score of 6%.
Security & Terrorism: Voted "yes" on HR 3162, Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism (USA PATRIOT) Act of 2001.
Voted "yes" on the "Visa Entry Reform Act of 2001", a bill to strengthen counter-terrorism efforts by imposing restrictions on student visas and among other things, it creates a centralized 'lookout' database.
Foreign Affairs: Voted "yes" on H.J.RES.114, Authorization for the Use of Military Force Against Iraq.
Suggested President Bush delay his proposal for creation of a Palestinian state in the midst of "barbaric suicide attacks against Israelis." "It is fine to set out the dream and the goal and to hope that will give people on the Palestinian side some hope," Gephardt said, as Bush worked on the proposal. "But it isn't going to change anything, in my view."
Education: "Vouchers drain funds from failing schools at the very moment when schools need these resources the most ... We must not allow 'reform' to erode the federal responsibility to support national priorities like helping disadvantaged students and putting a quality teacher in every classroom."
"We want to work together to recruit high- quality teachers and invest more in our schools while demanding more from them. We want to say to every student who wants to go to college and every worker who wants to update their skills the first $10,000 of your education should be tax deductible." - Democratic response to the State of the Union speech Jan 29, 2002
"The government needs to do more to help schools. We’ve agreed to fund 100,000 new teachers in grades one through three. The Clinton administration is trying to use federal dollars to help districts pay the costs on school construction bonds. We must fully fund Head Start and make it available to younger children. I believe more teachers, more classrooms, and reaching out to prepare students to learn are an appropriate way for the federal government to help schools cope." - An Even Better Place, by Dick Gephardt, p.157-58 Jul 2, 1999
Voted "yes" on requiring states to test students. No Child Left Behind Act of 2001 (Bill HR 1 ; vote number 2001-145 on May 23, 2001) Vote to pass a bill that would authorize $22.8 billion in education funding, a 29 percent increase from fiscal 2001. The bill would require states to test students to track progress.
We want to say to every student who wants to go to college and every worker who wants to update their skills the first $10,000 of your education should be tax deductible. - Democratic response to the State of the Union speech Jan 29, 2002
Healthcare: Providence Journal Bulletin reported om Jan 28, 2003 that Gephardt said in an interview that within a month or so he would propose a universal health-insurance plan that would cover the 42 million uninsured Americans.
Voted "no" on HR 2505 Human Cloning Prohibition Act of 2001. Bill would prohibit human cloning for either medical research or reproductive purposes.
Social Security: "We need to remember that stock values go down as well as up. In a prolonged bear market, the entire market may fall so far that it takes years to recover. Those who retire before the recovery may simply be out of luck. The stock market, in short, is no foolproof source of retirement security...Individual accounts can be part of the answer. But they should be voluntary and a supplement to Social Security, not a replacement for it."
Voted "yes" on strengthening the Social Security Lockbox. (Bill HR 1259 ; vote number 1999-163 on May 26, 1999) Amending the Social Security Lockbox bill to require that any budget surplus cannot be spent until the solvency of Social Security and Medicare is guaranteed.
Illicit Drugs: Voted "no" on prohibiting needle exchange & medical marijuana in DC. (Bill HR 3064 ; vote number 1999-504 on Oct 14, 1999) Bill would provide $429.1 million in funds for the District of Columbia and approves the District's $6.8 billion budget. Among other provisions, the bill prohibits the use of federal funds for needle exchange programs, prohibits implementing an approved ballot initiative to legalize the medicinal use of marijuana.
Ex-felons' Voting Rights: "As President Bush receives the commission's report, we hope he will finally provide real leadership and support for comprehensive election reform legislation," said Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle and House Minority Leader Richard Gephardt. In the report, states were asked to restore voting rights to convicted felons who have served full sentences. Bush backs the provision, aides said, noting that he signed legislation as governor of Texas moving up voting eligibility for felons.
Gun Policy: He received "F" from the NRA, and a 100 score from The Coalition to Stop Gun Violence
Abortion Policy: He received 100 score from Planned Parenthood and a zero from the National Right to Life Committee.
Environmental Policy: He received a 91 from the League of Conservation Voters.
Minority Issues: He received an 86% score from the NAACP.
Civil Liberties: He received 75% score from The American Civil Liberties Union.
Keith Brekhus 88
07-31-2003 10:29 PM ET (US)
George W. Bush's positions compared with Howard Dean's:
President George Walker Bush (Republican) He is the son of the former President Bush. He and wife Laura have twin daughters, Barbara and Jenna. Born July 6, 1946, in New Haven, Connecticut, he grew up in Midland, Texas. He graduated from Yale in 1968, then returned to Texas and joined the Texas Air National Guard. Bush entered the oil business. Declining oil prices of the early 1980s took their toll on his company. He later sold his original stock shares and made a considerable profit. In 1978, he lost a race for the U.S. House of Representatives. He organized a group of wealthy investors (including himself) and arranged the purchase of the Texas Rangers. After an initial outlay of only $606,000, Bush walked away with nearly $15 million when the team sold in 1998. He was elected governor of Texas (1994-2000).
Unless otherwise noted, quotes are from White House press releases and may found at www.whitehouse.gov
Taxes & Spending: Based on ratings from taxpayer advocacy groups such as National Taxpayers Union and Americans for Tax Reform, this candidate shares most of their views.
ABC published "While ramping up funding on homeland security to $41 billion and the military to $378 billion in fiscal 2004, Bush is asking the Republican-controlled Congress to cut spending growth for most other programs by more than half, fueling a battle with Democrats over tax and spending priorities in the run-up to the 2004 presidential election. Among those hardest hit will be agencies that regulate agriculture, the environment, housing and urban development, labor, and health and human services."
NPR reported on Feb. 4, 2003 -- President Bush's $2.23-trillion budget, sent to Congress on Monday, proposes increased funding for defense and homeland security while calling for $670 billion in income tax cuts over 10 years to stimulate the economy. It also projects a record $307 billion deficit in fiscal 2004 and continued shortfalls through 2008."
"These are the basic ideas that guide my tax policy: lower income taxes for all, with the greatest help for those most in need. Everyone who pays income taxes benefits while the highest percentage tax cuts go to the lowest income Americans. I believe this is a formula for continuing the prosperity we've enjoyed, but also expanding it in ways we have yet to discover. It is an economics of inclusion. It is the agenda of a government that knows its limits and shows its heart."
Contradiction of that assessment come from critics such as the Citizens for Tax Justice. Their analysis shows that more than sixty percent of Bush's proposed tax cuts would go to the best-off 10 percent of Americans.
Bush also calls for eliminating federal estate taxes.
Social Services Funding: "If a charity is helping the needy, it should not matter if there is a rabbi on the board, or a cross or a crescent on the wall, or a religious commitment in the charter. The days of discriminating against religious groups just because they are religious are coming to an end."
Welfare: "Help more welfare recipients achieve independence through work." "Increase the welfare-to-work resources available for families." "Protect children and strengthen families." "Empower states and local governments with a new Ticket to Independence initiative with new flexibility to more effectively move people from welfare dependency to work."
Children’s Defense Fund President Marian Wright Edelman today responded to the President’s State of the Union address citing its lack of real solutions for real children left behind in the present economic downturn. The President offered his agenda to move America forward by accelerating his $1.3 trillion tax giveaway to the wealthiest citizens and eliminating the stock dividend tax for millionaires in his $674 billion economic plan.
BIPAC strongly supports President Bush.
Security & Terrorism: Established the department of Homeland Security. The mission of that department of Homeland Security is to: "Prevent terrorist attacks within the United States; Reduce America's vulnerability to terrorism; and Minimize the damage and recover from attacks that do occur." Bush initiatives include "Operation TIPS (Terrorist Information and Prevention System): Allows millions of American transportation workers, postal workers, and public utility employees to identify and report suspicious activities linked to terrorism and crime."
Foreign Affairs: Has asked for a received Congressional backing to attack Iraq.
Education: Bush favors vouchers.
"The No Child Left Behind Act enables America's public schools to receive record levels of funding from the federal government, and creates unprecedented levels of accountability to ensure that those funds are producing real results to help every child in America receive a quality education."
However, critics such as U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., said superintendents and school boards are scrambling to meet the requirements demanded of them by the federal No Child Left Behind Act. He said the federal government is turning its back on them in the form of funding cuts. "By failing to provide the funding needed to implement the No Child Left Behind bill, the president is passing on a huge funding burden to the states -- and this comes at a time when almost every state is awash in red ink."
Healthcare: "I ask Congress to join me this year to enact a patients' bill of rights to give uninsured workers credits to help buy health coverage to approve an historic increase in the spending for veterans' health and to give seniors a sound and modern Medicare system that includes coverage for prescription drugs." - State of the Union Jan 2003.
The Bush administration said in a statement that it was ``unequivocally opposed to the cloning of human beings either for reproduction or for research.''
Social Security: As a candidate Bush said, "Retirement security also depends upon keeping the commitments of Social Security, and we will. We must make Social Security financially stable and allow personal retirement accounts for younger workers who choose them."
After his 2003 State of the Union message and budget annouincements, congressional Democrats criticized the president's plan for returning the nation to deep budget deficits and failing to shore up Social Security. "Instead of offering the nation a plan for long-term economic prosperity, the Bush budget burdens us, and our children, with trillions of dollars of new debt." -Sen. Kent Conrad (D-ND), ranking Democrat on the Senate Budget Committee
Illicit Drugs: "You sponsor drug education programs, and youth summits, and parent training courses. You support drug intervention programs, and foster great counseling services. You're helping to build a culture of responsibility, one that respects the law, one that teaches our children right from wrong, and one that strengthens our commitments to our fellow citizens." "The (Bush) Administration will empower parents, and community and faith-based groups to fight drugs." "Drug courts are an effective and cost efficient way to help non-violent drug offenders commit to a rigorous drug treatment program in lieu of prison. By leveraging the coercive power of the criminal justice system, drug courts can alter the behavior of non-violent, low-level drug offenders through a combination of judicial supervision, case management, mandatory drug testing, and treatment to ensure abstinence from drugs, and escalating sanctions."
Ex-felons' Voting Rights: Bush embraced only the general principles of the 105-page study (an election-reform report) headed by former Presidents Ford and Carter. His press secretary, casting the president as a reformer, voiced support for several but not all of the panel's recommendations. In the report, states were asked to restore voting rights to convicted felons who have served full sentences. Bush backs the provision, aides said, noting that he signed legislation as governor of Texas moving up voting eligibility for felons.
Gun Policy: If the NRA could pick a candidate, it would undoubtedly be George W. Bush. He has been a strong ally of the organization in Texas. - The Economist, Issues 2000 special Sep 30, 2000.
However, Bush supported the extension of the assault weapons ban - a position that has put him in opposition to the NRA and has left many guns owners angry and dumbfounded. "This is a president who has been so good on the Second Amendment that it's just unbelievable to gun owners that he would really sign the ban," said Grover Norquist, a leading conservative and an NRA board member who opposes the nationwide ban on semiautomatic assault weapons.
Abortion Policy: Planned Parenthood site says, "George W. Bush is systematically working to gut reproductive freedom in the U.S. and around the world."
Environmental Policy: Then Republican presidential candidate George W. Bush's positions and actions on environmental issues earned him the label of the 'weakest choice' by the League of Conservation Voters. January 14, 2000 (This while the several others were still viable candidates.)
Minority Issues: NAACP board chairman Julian Bond, denounced Mr. Bush. He has "appeased the wretched appetites of the extreme right wing, and he picked Cabinet officials whose devotion to the Confederacy is nearly canine in its uncritical affection," Bond said. For the nation's top law enforcement officer, Bond said Mr. Bush chose "a man who doesn't believe in many of the civil rights laws he's sworn to enforce affirmative action, racial profiling, hate crimes, voting rights."
Civil Liberties: The American Civil Liberties Union is generally critical of the Bush administration. Comments include: "The White House is again talking out of both sides of its mouth," said LaShawn Warren, an ACLU Legislative Counsel. "The President loves to opine about his ‘commitment to racial justice’ but, at practically every turn, he backs policies that contradict his stated convictions. His position spells disaster for racial equality in America."
This new faith-based bill would both further legitimize the President’s misguided initiative and promote taxpayer-funded religious discrimination, said Christopher Anders, an ACLU Legislative Counsel.
Howard Dean, (Democrat) Former Governor of Vermont Dean is a physician who previously shared a medical practice with his wife, Dr. Judith Steinberg. He's the father of two nearly grown children. Dean was born into a wealthy New York family in 1948. The oldest of four brothers and the son of a wealthy, conservative stockbroker, he grew up in the Hamptons and the Upper-East side where he attended elite private schools. (His grandmother was a bridesmaid to President Bush's grandmother). In 1967, he entered Yale University. While at Yale, Dean discovered that he had an innate sympathy for the civil rights movement and the plight of the poor. He steered clear of radical protests and student demonstrations, later saying that he instinctively distrusted ideologues, but he also came to oppose the escalating Vietnam War.
Taxes & Spending: "I am a true fiscal conservative though," said Dean. "I cut taxes in Vermont, taking the highest municipal income tax (in New England), and making it the lowest." "The biggest problem with our economy right now is that Republicans don’t know how to manage money," started Dean, later saying the opposing party has the habit of borrowing, spending, borrowing, spending." "In a Dean Administration, the Democratic Party would reclaim the mantle of fiscal responsibility."
"Social justice can only be achieved through a balanced budget", Dean said. He thinks he will appeal to fiscal conservatives, because he is the only Democrat in the field who has balanced a budget:
From his campaign site: "To help finance this effort (Universal Health Care) , we must repeal the President's tax cuts -- which have thrown America back into the huge deficits of the 1980s -- and balance the federal budget. We cannot build crucial social programs without a solid financial foundation." "The first round of (Bush) tax cuts (with some exceptions in the estate and retirement areas) should be repealed."
Social Services Funding: Dean "Supports some faith-based initiatives because he believes that charities do very good work. However, he does not support giving tax money to organizations that do not abide by federal anti-discrimination laws. He stated that if elected, he would try and ensure that organizations that discriminate would not receive federal funding."
Welfare: Promotes "welfare reform" "...we resist attempts by President Bush to dictate to the states how we run our ... welfare programs..." He condemned the Bush administration's welfare reform proposal, or more formally the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) reauthorization bill, as "a step backwards for everyone who believes in welfare reform." "We are particularly concerned about the extraordinary rigidity of the 40-hour work week [requirement]," Vermont was the first state in the nation to reform welfare on a statewide basis. Then-Governor Dean's initiative requires work and limits the amount of time a welfare recipient can receive assistance, but supports children and their working parents with health care, child care, and job training.
The bulk of those tax cuts went to those in the top 2 percent of income earners - people like Ken Lay and other corporate plunderers of the American economy. Left behind are middle class and working people, many of whom, in exchange for their tiny tax cuts, have lost their jobs or their health insurance - casualties of an economy limping along under the weight of Bush's economic policies. Our children will pay the bills for all this financial recklessness.
Security & Terrorism: "I would repeal that part and any other part of the PATRIOT Act that violates our Constitution."
Foreign Affairs: Dean said that he's the only candidate with previous experience in government who has opposed the war with Iraq from the start. "I have serious concerns about the increasingly unilateralist approach to foreign policy we have seen from the current Administration, particularly in the President's posture toward Iraq."
The Washington Post reported: Former Vermont governor Howard Dean has taken a consistently hard line against Bush's policy, telling Democratic audiences around the country that, unlike his rivals for the nomination, he would have opposed the congressional resolution authorizing Bush to go to war. But his vociferous opposition comes with a caveat. "If the evidence is there [that Iraq possesses weapons of mass destruction]," Dean said yesterday, "we would go to the Security Council, and if they refused to act, we would have to do so in 60 days." Dean opined that by enunciating pre-emption as a doctrine, Bush had inadvertently encouraged the Chinese to claim a "clear and present danger" in Taiwan.
In a "The Nation" magazine interview, he stated that he favors the formation of a Palestinian state, but believes that terrorism must end before that happens.
Education: Warned against "harebrained" ideas like school vouchers. Dean criticized the president's education plan, called the "no child left behind" act, by calling it the "no school board left standing" act. "Everybody running for president except for me and the Republicans got together on this wonderful bipartisan bill that is the second largest unfunded mandate in the history of education," he said.
"The federal government must recognize that an enormous number of our teachers are retiring in the coming years and provide incentives to inspire a new generation of great teachers."
Healthcare: From his campaign site: "As a doctor, I understand the fear facing families without health insurance. As a Governor, I am proud that virtually every child under 18 and more than 90 percent of adults in Vermont are eligible for health coverage. But as a country, the United States can do better on this front."
Said his plan of providing universal health insurance through expanding Medicaid and added it could be paid for with half of the president's tax cut. The country needs health insurance, says the doctor, yet Congress is arguing about the wrong thing, the patients' bill of rights, which would not make the slightest difference because "it would not bring health insurance to a single American."
Social Security: Dean criticized the idea of allowing private individuals to invest their Social Security savings in the stock market. "Allowing individuals to invest money in the stock market is foolish," he said. "Social Security is not a retirement program; it is a safety net for people so they don't starve." Dean linked the tax cuts to homeland security, saying, "The enormous tax cuts are not only undercutting Medicaid and Social Security, Mr. President. The enormous tax cuts that you have passed are actually undercutting our ability to defend ourselves."
Illicit Drugs: We need to treat drugs as a public health problem.. That's difficult to do. We actually don't have a lot of drug users in our jails; the ones we have in there are drug users who are also dealers. Jails not a particularly effective way to get people to stop using drugs; treatment is.
In an interview with "The Nation" magazine, Dr. Dean--who believes in a scientific fact based approach--would direct the FDA to evaluate medical marijuana. Whatever the conclusion, he'd accept their findings.
As Governor, Dean adopted the National Governors Association policy, which in part said, "The nation’s Governors urge the President and Congress to fully fund drug and alcohol abuse education, drug courts, treatment, prevention, and law enforcement efforts, including the initiative to combat and clean up methamphetamine production laboratories, at the state and local levels of government."
Ex-felons' Voting Rights: During a Miami Beach NACCP forum in July 2003, this candidate expressed support for restoration of voting rights of felons who served their sentences.
Gun Policy: Dean received an "A" grade from the NRA
Abortion Policy: Dean explained that in his opinion, the government should have no say in what a woman should choose. "It’s none of the government’s business."
Environmental Policy: Dean received was not rated by the League of Conservation Voters. He is courting the environmental vote. He was the keynote speaker at the California League of Conservation Voters lunch. "As President, I would bring my commitment to our environment to the White House."
He would not sign the Kyoto global warming treaty as it stands, but negotiate to eliminate the current exemptions for under-developed countries' production of greenhouse gases.
Regarding Bush's environmental policy Dean said, "It's appalling. Essentially what he's done is try to undo most of the environmental policy in the last 50 years. Drilling in the national parks is essentially his solution to the energy dilemma. Gutting the Clean Air Act and daring to call it Clear Skies. Opening wilderness to more logging under the guise of Healthy Forests. He's even threatening our national monuments. The assaults are sweeping."
Minority Issues: In her Profile in Courage Essay Contest Prize Winning Essay, Stephanie Dziczek of Holmes High School, Covington, Kentucky, wrote "Minority champions like Dean, with the courage to hold principle and respect for all people above common opinion, are the reasons that today women can vote, African Americans are legally protected from discrimination, and homosexuals can engage in civil unions." Increased the number minorities in judgeships and other prominent positions.
Civil Liberties: Dean has not been scored by The American Civil Liberties Union. Dean, who is running on his civil rights record as governor, is well-known for signing Vermont's law legalizing gay civil unions.
The Vermont Civil Liberties Union was alarmed by then Gov. Howard Dean's call for a "re-evaluation" of some of America's civil liberties following this week's terrorist attacks. Dean said "I think there are going to be debates about what can be said where, what can be printed where, what kind of freedom of movement people have and whether it's OK for a policeman to ask for your ID just because you're walking down the street." Later Dean backed away when asked about them later. He pointed out that he was not advocating for such restrictions, merely predicting what he believed would be the salient issues in the debate. When asked what, if any, impingement he supported, Dean had no answer. "Right now (Sept 23, 2001) we have to let things cool off. Proposed changes in the Constitution ought to be served cold."
07-31-2003 10:29 PM ET (US)
George W. Bush's positions compared with Howard Dean's:
President George Walker Bush (Republican) He is the son of the former President Bush. He and wife Laura have twin daughters, Barbara and Jenna. Born July 6, 1946, in New Haven, Connecticut, he grew up in Midland, Texas. He graduated from Yale in 1968, then returned to Texas and joined the Texas Air National Guard. Bush entered the oil business. Declining oil prices of the early 1980s took their toll on his company. He later sold his original stock shares and made a considerable profit. In 1978, he lost a race for the U.S. House of Representatives. He organized a group of wealthy investors (including himself) and arranged the purchase of the Texas Rangers. After an initial outlay of only $606,000, Bush walked away with nearly $15 million when the team sold in 1998. He was elected governor of Texas (1994-2000).
Unless otherwise noted, quotes are from White House press releases and may found at www.whitehouse.gov
Taxes & Spending: Based on ratings from taxpayer advocacy groups such as National Taxpayers Union and Americans for Tax Reform, this candidate shares most of their views.
ABC published "While ramping up funding on homeland security to $41 billion and the military to $378 billion in fiscal 2004, Bush is asking the Republican-controlled Congress to cut spending growth for most other programs by more than half, fueling a battle with Democrats over tax and spending priorities in the run-up to the 2004 presidential election. Among those hardest hit will be agencies that regulate agriculture, the environment, housing and urban development, labor, and health and human services."
NPR reported on Feb. 4, 2003 -- President Bush's $2.23-trillion budget, sent to Congress on Monday, proposes increased funding for defense and homeland security while calling for $670 billion in income tax cuts over 10 years to stimulate the economy. It also projects a record $307 billion deficit in fiscal 2004 and continued shortfalls through 2008."
"These are the basic ideas that guide my tax policy: lower income taxes for all, with the greatest help for those most in need. Everyone who pays income taxes benefits while the highest percentage tax cuts go to the lowest income Americans. I believe this is a formula for continuing the prosperity we've enjoyed, but also expanding it in ways we have yet to discover. It is an economics of inclusion. It is the agenda of a government that knows its limits and shows its heart."
Contradiction of that assessment come from critics such as the Citizens for Tax Justice. Their analysis shows that more than sixty percent of Bush's proposed tax cuts would go to the best-off 10 percent of Americans.
Bush also calls for eliminating federal estate taxes.
Social Services Funding: "If a charity is helping the needy, it should not matter if there is a rabbi on the board, or a cross or a crescent on the wall, or a religious commitment in the charter. The days of discriminating against religious groups just because they are religious are coming to an end."
Welfare: "Help more welfare recipients achieve independence through work." "Increase the welfare-to-work resources available for families." "Protect children and strengthen families." "Empower states and local governments with a new Ticket to Independence initiative with new flexibility to more effectively move people from welfare dependency to work."
Children’s Defense Fund President Marian Wright Edelman today responded to the President’s State of the Union address citing its lack of real solutions for real children left behind in the present economic downturn. The President offered his agenda to move America forward by accelerating his $1.3 trillion tax giveaway to the wealthiest citizens and eliminating the stock dividend tax for millionaires in his $674 billion economic plan.
BIPAC strongly supports President Bush.
Security & Terrorism: Established the department of Homeland Security. The mission of that department of Homeland Security is to: "Prevent terrorist attacks within the United States; Reduce America's vulnerability to terrorism; and Minimize the damage and recover from attacks that do occur." Bush initiatives include "Operation TIPS (Terrorist Information and Prevention System): Allows millions of American transportation workers, postal workers, and public utility employees to identify and report suspicious activities linked to terrorism and crime."
Foreign Affairs: Has asked for a received Congressional backing to attack Iraq.
Education: Bush favors vouchers.
"The No Child Left Behind Act enables America's public schools to receive record levels of funding from the federal government, and creates unprecedented levels of accountability to ensure that those funds are producing real results to help every child in America receive a quality education."
However, critics such as U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., said superintendents and school boards are scrambling to meet the requirements demanded of them by the federal No Child Left Behind Act. He said the federal government is turning its back on them in the form of funding cuts. "By failing to provide the funding needed to implement the No Child Left Behind bill, the president is passing on a huge funding burden to the states -- and this comes at a time when almost every state is awash in red ink."
Healthcare: "I ask Congress to join me this year to enact a patients' bill of rights to give uninsured workers credits to help buy health coverage to approve an historic increase in the spending for veterans' health and to give seniors a sound and modern Medicare system that includes coverage for prescription drugs." - State of the Union Jan 2003.
The Bush administration said in a statement that it was ``unequivocally opposed to the cloning of human beings either for reproduction or for research.''
Social Security: As a candidate Bush said, "Retirement security also depends upon keeping the commitments of Social Security, and we will. We must make Social Security financially stable and allow personal retirement accounts for younger workers who choose them."
After his 2003 State of the Union message and budget annouincements, congressional Democrats criticized the president's plan for returning the nation to deep budget deficits and failing to shore up Social Security. "Instead of offering the nation a plan for long-term economic prosperity, the Bush budget burdens us, and our children, with trillions of dollars of new debt." -Sen. Kent Conrad (D-ND), ranking Democrat on the Senate Budget Committee
Illicit Drugs: "You sponsor drug education programs, and youth summits, and parent training courses. You support drug intervention programs, and foster great counseling services. You're helping to build a culture of responsibility, one that respects the law, one that teaches our children right from wrong, and one that strengthens our commitments to our fellow citizens." "The (Bush) Administration will empower parents, and community and faith-based groups to fight drugs." "Drug courts are an effective and cost efficient way to help non-violent drug offenders commit to a rigorous drug treatment program in lieu of prison. By leveraging the coercive power of the criminal justice system, drug courts can alter the behavior of non-violent, low-level drug offenders through a combination of judicial supervision, case management, mandatory drug testing, and treatment to ensure abstinence from drugs, and escalating sanctions."
Ex-felons' Voting Rights: Bush embraced only the general principles of the 105-page study (an election-reform report) headed by former Presidents Ford and Carter. His press secretary, casting the president as a reformer, voiced support for several but not all of the panel's recommendations. In the report, states were asked to restore voting rights to convicted felons who have served full sentences. Bush backs the provision, aides said, noting that he signed legislation as governor of Texas moving up voting eligibility for felons.
Gun Policy: If the NRA could pick a candidate, it would undoubtedly be George W. Bush. He has been a strong ally of the organization in Texas. - The Economist, Issues 2000 special Sep 30, 2000.
However, Bush supported the extension of the assault weapons ban - a position that has put him in opposition to the NRA and has left many guns owners angry and dumbfounded. "This is a president who has been so good on the Second Amendment that it's just unbelievable to gun owners that he would really sign the ban," said Grover Norquist, a leading conservative and an NRA board member who opposes the nationwide ban on semiautomatic assault weapons.
Abortion Policy: Planned Parenthood site says, "George W. Bush is systematically working to gut reproductive freedom in the U.S. and around the world."
Environmental Policy: Then Republican presidential candidate George W. Bush's positions and actions on environmental issues earned him the label of the 'weakest choice' by the League of Conservation Voters. January 14, 2000 (This while the several others were still viable candidates.)
Minority Issues: NAACP board chairman Julian Bond, denounced Mr. Bush. He has "appeased the wretched appetites of the extreme right wing, and he picked Cabinet officials whose devotion to the Confederacy is nearly canine in its uncritical affection," Bond said. For the nation's top law enforcement officer, Bond said Mr. Bush chose "a man who doesn't believe in many of the civil rights laws he's sworn to enforce affirmative action, racial profiling, hate crimes, voting rights."
Civil Liberties: The American Civil Liberties Union is generally critical of the Bush administration. Comments include: "The White House is again talking out of both sides of its mouth," said LaShawn Warren, an ACLU Legislative Counsel. "The President loves to opine about his ‘commitment to racial justice’ but, at practically every turn, he backs policies that contradict his stated convictions. His position spells disaster for racial equality in America."
This new faith-based bill would both further legitimize the President’s misguided initiative and promote taxpayer-funded religious discrimination, said Christopher Anders, an ACLU Legislative Counsel.
Howard Dean, (Democrat) Former Governor of Vermont Dean is a physician who previously shared a medical practice with his wife, Dr. Judith Steinberg. He's the father of two nearly grown children. Dean was born into a wealthy New York family in 1948. The oldest of four brothers and the son of a wealthy, conservative stockbroker, he grew up in the Hamptons and the Upper-East side where he attended elite private schools. (His grandmother was a bridesmaid to President Bush's grandmother). In 1967, he entered Yale University. While at Yale, Dean discovered that he had an innate sympathy for the civil rights movement and the plight of the poor. He steered clear of radical protests and student demonstrations, later saying that he instinctively distrusted ideologues, but he also came to oppose the escalating Vietnam War.
Taxes & Spending: "I am a true fiscal conservative though," said Dean. "I cut taxes in Vermont, taking the highest municipal income tax (in New England), and making it the lowest." "The biggest problem with our economy right now is that Republicans don’t know how to manage money," started Dean, later saying the opposing party has the habit of borrowing, spending, borrowing, spending." "In a Dean Administration, the Democratic Party would reclaim the mantle of fiscal responsibility."
"Social justice can only be achieved through a balanced budget", Dean said. He thinks he will appeal to fiscal conservatives, because he is the only Democrat in the field who has balanced a budget:
From his campaign site: "To help finance this effort (Universal Health Care) , we must repeal the President's tax cuts -- which have thrown America back into the huge deficits of the 1980s -- and balance the federal budget. We cannot build crucial social programs without a solid financial foundation." "The first round of (Bush) tax cuts (with some exceptions in the estate and retirement areas) should be repealed."
Social Services Funding: Dean "Supports some faith-based initiatives because he believes that charities do very good work. However, he does not support giving tax money to organizations that do not abide by federal anti-discrimination laws. He stated that if elected, he would try and ensure that organizations that discriminate would not receive federal funding."
Welfare: Promotes "welfare reform" "...we resist attempts by President Bush to dictate to the states how we run our ... welfare programs..." He condemned the Bush administration's welfare reform proposal, or more formally the Temporary Assistance for Needy Families (TANF) reauthorization bill, as "a step backwards for everyone who believes in welfare reform." "We are particularly concerned about the extraordinary rigidity of the 40-hour work week [requirement]," Vermont was the first state in the nation to reform welfare on a statewide basis. Then-Governor Dean's initiative requires work and limits the amount of time a welfare recipient can receive assistance, but supports children and their working parents with health care, child care, and job training.
The bulk of those tax cuts went to those in the top 2 percent of income earners - people like Ken Lay and other corporate plunderers of the American economy. Left behind are middle class and working people, many of whom, in exchange for their tiny tax cuts, have lost their jobs or their health insurance - casualties of an economy limping along under the weight of Bush's economic policies. Our children will pay the bills for all this financial recklessness.
Security & Terrorism: "I would repeal that part and any other part of the PATRIOT Act that violates our Constitution."
Foreign Affairs: Dean said that he's the only candidate with previous experience in government who has opposed the war with Iraq from the start. "I have serious concerns about the increasingly unilateralist approach to foreign policy we have seen from the current Administration, particularly in the President's posture toward Iraq."
The Washington Post reported: Former Vermont governor Howard Dean has taken a consistently hard line against Bush's policy, telling Democratic audiences around the country that, unlike his rivals for the nomination, he would have opposed the congressional resolution authorizing Bush to go to war. But his vociferous opposition comes with a caveat. "If the evidence is there [that Iraq possesses weapons of mass destruction]," Dean said yesterday, "we would go to the Security Council, and if they refused to act, we would have to do so in 60 days." Dean opined that by enunciating pre-emption as a doctrine, Bush had inadvertently encouraged the Chinese to claim a "clear and present danger" in Taiwan.
In a "The Nation" magazine interview, he stated that he favors the formation of a Palestinian state, but believes that terrorism must end before that happens.
Education: Warned against "harebrained" ideas like school vouchers. Dean criticized the president's education plan, called the "no child left behind" act, by calling it the "no school board left standing" act. "Everybody running for president except for me and the Republicans got together on this wonderful bipartisan bill that is the second largest unfunded mandate in the history of education," he said.
"The federal government must recognize that an enormous number of our teachers are retiring in the coming years and provide incentives to inspire a new generation of great teachers."
Healthcare: From his campaign site: "As a doctor, I understand the fear facing families without health insurance. As a Governor, I am proud that virtually every child under 18 and more than 90 percent of adults in Vermont are eligible for health coverage. But as a country, the United States can do better on this front."
Said his plan of providing universal health insurance through expanding Medicaid and added it could be paid for with half of the president's tax cut. The country needs health insurance, says the doctor, yet Congress is arguing about the wrong thing, the patients' bill of rights, which would not make the slightest difference because "it would not bring health insurance to a single American."
Social Security: Dean criticized the idea of allowing private individuals to invest their Social Security savings in the stock market. "Allowing individuals to invest money in the stock market is foolish," he said. "Social Security is not a retirement program; it is a safety net for people so they don't starve." Dean linked the tax cuts to homeland security, saying, "The enormous tax cuts are not only undercutting Medicaid and Social Security, Mr. President. The enormous tax cuts that you have passed are actually undercutting our ability to defend ourselves."
Illicit Drugs: We need to treat drugs as a public health problem.. That's difficult to do. We actually don't have a lot of drug users in our jails; the ones we have in there are drug users who are also dealers. Jails not a particularly effective way to get people to stop using drugs; treatment is.
In an interview with "The Nation" magazine, Dr. Dean--who believes in a scientific fact based approach--would direct the FDA to evaluate medical marijuana. Whatever the conclusion, he'd accept their findings.
As Governor, Dean adopted the National Governors Association policy, which in part said, "The nation’s Governors urge the President and Congress to fully fund drug and alcohol abuse education, drug courts, treatment, prevention, and law enforcement efforts, including the initiative to combat and clean up methamphetamine production laboratories, at the state and local levels of government."
Ex-felons' Voting Rights: During a Miami Beach NACCP forum in July 2003, this candidate expressed support for restoration of voting rights of felons who served their sentences.
Gun Policy: Dean received an "A" grade from the NRA
Abortion Policy: Dean explained that in his opinion, the government should have no say in what a woman should choose. "It’s none of the government’s business."
Environmental Policy: Dean received was not rated by the League of Conservation Voters. He is courting the environmental vote. He was the keynote speaker at the California League of Conservation Voters lunch. "As President, I would bring my commitment to our environment to the White House."
He would not sign the Kyoto global warming treaty as it stands, but negotiate to eliminate the current exemptions for under-developed countries' production of greenhouse gases.
Regarding Bush's environmental policy Dean said, "It's appalling. Essentially what he's done is try to undo most of the environmental policy in the last 50 years. Drilling in the national parks is essentially his solution to the energy dilemma. Gutting the Clean Air Act and daring to call it Clear Skies. Opening wilderness to more logging under the guise of Healthy Forests. He's even threatening our national monuments. The assaults are sweeping."
Minority Issues: In her Profile in Courage Essay Contest Prize Winning Essay, Stephanie Dziczek of Holmes High School, Covington, Kentucky, wrote "Minority champions like Dean, with the courage to hold principle and respect for all people above common opinion, are the reasons that today women can vote, African Americans are legally protected from discrimination, and homosexuals can engage in civil unions." Increased the number minorities in judgeships and other prominent positions.
Civil Liberties: Dean has not been scored by The American Civil Liberties Union. Dean, who is running on his civil rights record as governor, is well-known for signing Vermont's law legalizing gay civil unions.
The Vermont Civil Liberties Union was alarmed by then Gov. Howard Dean's call for a "re-evaluation" of some of America's civil liberties following this week's terrorist attacks. Dean said "I think there are going to be debates about what can be said where, what can be printed where, what kind of freedom of movement people have and whether it's OK for a policeman to ask for your ID just because you're walking down the street." Later Dean backed away when asked about them later. He pointed out that he was not advocating for such restrictions, merely predicting what he believed would be the salient issues in the debate. When asked what, if any, impingement he supported, Dean had no answer. "Right now (Sept 23, 2001) we have to let things cool off. Proposed changes in the Constitution ought to be served cold."
Keith Brekhus 89
07-31-2003 10:39 PM ET (US)
I posted below George Bush's positions and those of the four leading Democratic challengers (Dean, Kerry, Gephardt, and Lieberman). I cut and paste these from the selectsmart sight which is a non-partisan resource for looking at candidate's positions. There are five other Democrats in the race (Edwards, Graham, Sharpton, Kucinich, and Moseley-Braun) but none of them are faring well enough in the polls right now to be considered serious challngers for the party's nomination.
If you want to see which candidate shares your views most closely try this quiz: http://www.selectsmart.com/president/
I took the quiz and Dean was at 95%
Kerry was in the 80s, Gephardt the 70s and Lieberman the 60s...this is how I would have ranked them before taking the quiz as well. Bush is down at the bottom for me...we only match about 10% of the time.
07-31-2003 10:39 PM ET (US)
I posted below George Bush's positions and those of the four leading Democratic challengers (Dean, Kerry, Gephardt, and Lieberman). I cut and paste these from the selectsmart sight which is a non-partisan resource for looking at candidate's positions. There are five other Democrats in the race (Edwards, Graham, Sharpton, Kucinich, and Moseley-Braun) but none of them are faring well enough in the polls right now to be considered serious challngers for the party's nomination.
If you want to see which candidate shares your views most closely try this quiz: http://www.selectsmart.com/president/
I took the quiz and Dean was at 95%
Kerry was in the 80s, Gephardt the 70s and Lieberman the 60s...this is how I would have ranked them before taking the quiz as well. Bush is down at the bottom for me...we only match about 10% of the time.
Ann Stewart 90
07-31-2003 10:41 PM ET (US)
Wow Keith
You are really alot of help. Thankyou so much. I feel like I should pay you or something.
07-31-2003 10:41 PM ET (US)
Wow Keith
You are really alot of help. Thankyou so much. I feel like I should pay you or something.
Ann Stewart 91
07-31-2003 10:46 PM ET (US)
Keith I will use this information
You are a gift to me from God at the moment.
And to everybody else I need your comments. I would love for comments to be posted on all Candidates if I can get it.
07-31-2003 10:46 PM ET (US)
Keith I will use this information
You are a gift to me from God at the moment.
And to everybody else I need your comments. I would love for comments to be posted on all Candidates if I can get it.
Ann Stewart 93
07-31-2003 10:55 PM ET (US)
Yes I know
Keith is doing wonders for this web site and disussion.
07-31-2003 10:55 PM ET (US)
Yes I know
Keith is doing wonders for this web site and disussion.
Vanessa 94
07-31-2003 11:21 PM ET (US)
I understand that you are worried about the war situation.
The problem is President Bush pushed the war situation that it is impossible for him to stop.
I personaly think they don't find any illegal weapons.
So President Bush owns then answer to the militar familes and the nation.
I don't think I would vote for a second time for him.
By an election I always look at all options and who I think does the best job gets my vote.
07-31-2003 11:21 PM ET (US)
I understand that you are worried about the war situation.
The problem is President Bush pushed the war situation that it is impossible for him to stop.
I personaly think they don't find any illegal weapons.
So President Bush owns then answer to the militar familes and the nation.
I don't think I would vote for a second time for him.
By an election I always look at all options and who I think does the best job gets my vote.
Eugene 95
08-01-2003 12:02 AM ET (US)
I’d vote for Hillary Clinton, but since she ain’t running, I guess I’ll vote for John Kerry or Edwards.
08-01-2003 12:02 AM ET (US)
I’d vote for Hillary Clinton, but since she ain’t running, I guess I’ll vote for John Kerry or Edwards.
Keith Brekhus 96
08-01-2003 12:14 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-01-2003 12:15 AM
The road map to victory? This map shows the probable geography of the electorate as of May 26th this year. At that time Bush's approval rating was around 65%. Today it stands at 53%...a 12 point drop. If you take a best case scenario and add up all the red states and light blue states going for Dean on the map, he would have exactly the 270 electoral votes needed to win the election.
I should add that New Mexico which Gore carried and Nevada, should be in play contrary to what this map depicts, giving Dean a potential fallback cushion in case he fails to carry Arkansas or West Virginia.
In any case, I believe if the election were held today, Bush would hold on, but if his approval ratings drop into the 40s he may find himself in the same position his daddy was in back in 1992. By the way, Dean is now familar with 39% of people polled compared to only 1% in May. All you people on this site can consider yourselves among the top 39% of "most informed Americans" since you know who Dean is :-).
http://www.presidentelect.org/e2004.html#map
Howard Dean, former governor of Vermont, seems at the same time an odd choice and the perfect choice to put against the popular President. He's brash, blunt, and extremely opinionated. While he is fiscally moderate, most of his social beliefs are on the left side of liberal. As he tries to capture the nomination there are two issues that could hurt him with voters on both sides of the Democratic party spectrum. Liberal Democrats may be uncomfortable with his views on gun control, where he stands firmly with the NRA. Moderate Democrats may be uncomfortable with his views on gay rights; as governor, he signed the law that made Vermont the first state to recognize civil unions for gay couples.
The biggest issue separating Bush and Dean is the recent Iraq war (Dean was the first Democratic candidate to come out strongly against it), and that could be the critical issue in an election between these two. However, Bush's popularity seems tough to beat right now. As history has shown, as we approach the election his numbers will inevitably drop. But the Democratic candidates don't seem to be resonating with the public yet. A poll released in May 2003 asking respondents to name any Democratic presidential candidate found that 66% of the public couldn't name any of them - and Dean was only named by 1%.
President Elect predicts that President Bush would win 321 electoral votes to the Howard Dean's 217. However, of all the current Democratic candidates, we believe Dean has the greatest chance of turning these numbers around and surprising everyone.
After all, it wouldn't be the fist time an unknown Democratic governor of a small state took on a popular President named Bush who had just invaded Iraq - and won!
08-01-2003 12:14 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-01-2003 12:15 AM
The road map to victory? This map shows the probable geography of the electorate as of May 26th this year. At that time Bush's approval rating was around 65%. Today it stands at 53%...a 12 point drop. If you take a best case scenario and add up all the red states and light blue states going for Dean on the map, he would have exactly the 270 electoral votes needed to win the election.
I should add that New Mexico which Gore carried and Nevada, should be in play contrary to what this map depicts, giving Dean a potential fallback cushion in case he fails to carry Arkansas or West Virginia.
In any case, I believe if the election were held today, Bush would hold on, but if his approval ratings drop into the 40s he may find himself in the same position his daddy was in back in 1992. By the way, Dean is now familar with 39% of people polled compared to only 1% in May. All you people on this site can consider yourselves among the top 39% of "most informed Americans" since you know who Dean is :-).
http://www.presidentelect.org/e2004.html#map
Howard Dean, former governor of Vermont, seems at the same time an odd choice and the perfect choice to put against the popular President. He's brash, blunt, and extremely opinionated. While he is fiscally moderate, most of his social beliefs are on the left side of liberal. As he tries to capture the nomination there are two issues that could hurt him with voters on both sides of the Democratic party spectrum. Liberal Democrats may be uncomfortable with his views on gun control, where he stands firmly with the NRA. Moderate Democrats may be uncomfortable with his views on gay rights; as governor, he signed the law that made Vermont the first state to recognize civil unions for gay couples.
The biggest issue separating Bush and Dean is the recent Iraq war (Dean was the first Democratic candidate to come out strongly against it), and that could be the critical issue in an election between these two. However, Bush's popularity seems tough to beat right now. As history has shown, as we approach the election his numbers will inevitably drop. But the Democratic candidates don't seem to be resonating with the public yet. A poll released in May 2003 asking respondents to name any Democratic presidential candidate found that 66% of the public couldn't name any of them - and Dean was only named by 1%.
President Elect predicts that President Bush would win 321 electoral votes to the Howard Dean's 217. However, of all the current Democratic candidates, we believe Dean has the greatest chance of turning these numbers around and surprising everyone.
After all, it wouldn't be the fist time an unknown Democratic governor of a small state took on a popular President named Bush who had just invaded Iraq - and won!
Albert 97
08-01-2003 12:44 AM ET (US)
I never knew Howard Dean's wife was Jewish. Keith you seem to know alot about Dean. Do you personally know Howard Dean?
08-01-2003 12:44 AM ET (US)
I never knew Howard Dean's wife was Jewish. Keith you seem to know alot about Dean. Do you personally know Howard Dean?
Jonathan in GA 98
08-01-2003 01:26 AM ET (US)
Howard Dean was raised Episcopalian. He's now a congregationalist (still a Christian).
His wife is Jewish, his kids consider themself Jewish.
08-01-2003 01:26 AM ET (US)
Howard Dean was raised Episcopalian. He's now a congregationalist (still a Christian).
His wife is Jewish, his kids consider themself Jewish.
Jonathan in GA 99
08-01-2003 01:26 AM ET (US)
Al Gore did NOT carry Nevada in 2000.
Clinton-Gore did carry it in 92 and I believe 96 as well.
08-01-2003 01:26 AM ET (US)
Al Gore did NOT carry Nevada in 2000.
Clinton-Gore did carry it in 92 and I believe 96 as well.
Jonathan in GA 100
08-01-2003 01:33 AM ET (US)
Keith, your analysis is not really all that accurate.
Dean is quite a centrist. His record in Vermont was pro-business and pro-growth.
Look at the 40,000 plus jobs created. The balanced budget. Three tax cuts. A budget surplus.
This is not the work of a tax-and-spend liberal.
Dean is a moderate on social issues. The only reason he got the "lefty" tag was because of his war opposition.
The Civil Unions bill was a compromise and was mandated by the Vermont Supreme Court. Dean signed the bill quietly, not with a grand public ceremony.
Although he's proud of signing the bill, he's not for gay marriage.
He got an "A" from the NRA, but his position is far from conservative. He was federal law vigorously enforced, but wants to allow all states to decide what addition gun control is best for themselves.
The guy favors the death penalty in certain cases (Kerry would ban it altogether if he had the ability.)
What's best, Dean hasn't written off southern voters as some other candidates have.
Whatever charge you have to level against Dean, he's no George McGovern/Dukakis/FDR. He's far closer to Bill Clinton ideologically.
08-01-2003 01:33 AM ET (US)
Keith, your analysis is not really all that accurate.
Dean is quite a centrist. His record in Vermont was pro-business and pro-growth.
Look at the 40,000 plus jobs created. The balanced budget. Three tax cuts. A budget surplus.
This is not the work of a tax-and-spend liberal.
Dean is a moderate on social issues. The only reason he got the "lefty" tag was because of his war opposition.
The Civil Unions bill was a compromise and was mandated by the Vermont Supreme Court. Dean signed the bill quietly, not with a grand public ceremony.
Although he's proud of signing the bill, he's not for gay marriage.
He got an "A" from the NRA, but his position is far from conservative. He was federal law vigorously enforced, but wants to allow all states to decide what addition gun control is best for themselves.
The guy favors the death penalty in certain cases (Kerry would ban it altogether if he had the ability.)
What's best, Dean hasn't written off southern voters as some other candidates have.
Whatever charge you have to level against Dean, he's no George McGovern/Dukakis/FDR. He's far closer to Bill Clinton ideologically.
Jonathan in GA 101
08-01-2003 01:40 AM ET (US)
According to the recent Zogby poll, Dean has doubled both the number of people who recognize his name, and likability.
In March, 16% had heard of Dean, of whom 8% didn't like him and 75% were unfamiliar with him.
In July, his likability was at 32% and the number of people that dislike him actually went DOWN to 6%.
In the same period, only Graham improved his favorable (by one point) but his unfavorable also went up one point.
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=724
08-01-2003 01:40 AM ET (US)
According to the recent Zogby poll, Dean has doubled both the number of people who recognize his name, and likability.
In March, 16% had heard of Dean, of whom 8% didn't like him and 75% were unfamiliar with him.
In July, his likability was at 32% and the number of people that dislike him actually went DOWN to 6%.
In the same period, only Graham improved his favorable (by one point) but his unfavorable also went up one point.
http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=724
Ann Stewart 102
08-01-2003 01:43 AM ET (US)
Jonathan in GA I promise you I will post your comments on the Comments Page. All of you are a big help, to those of us who want to be eductated about this election.
08-01-2003 01:43 AM ET (US)
Jonathan in GA I promise you I will post your comments on the Comments Page. All of you are a big help, to those of us who want to be eductated about this election.
Jonathan in GA 103
08-01-2003 01:46 AM ET (US)
Anne Stewart, right on.
E-mail me at sake_box@yahoo.com sometime. I'll give you the straight dope on Bush, Dean, and whatever issue you're undecided about.
08-01-2003 01:46 AM ET (US)
Anne Stewart, right on.
E-mail me at sake_box@yahoo.com sometime. I'll give you the straight dope on Bush, Dean, and whatever issue you're undecided about.
Eugene 104
08-01-2003 02:46 AM ET (US)
Hillary Clinton should be President. Than she should divorce Bill and marry me. I want to be the first man.
08-01-2003 02:46 AM ET (US)
Hillary Clinton should be President. Than she should divorce Bill and marry me. I want to be the first man.
Ann Stewart 105
08-01-2003 02:57 AM ET (US)
Well Eugene
That would be interesting. She could sale some books with that kind of story.
08-01-2003 02:57 AM ET (US)
Well Eugene
That would be interesting. She could sale some books with that kind of story.
Patti Ferschke 106
08-01-2003 03:42 AM ET (US)
If you want to save this country from BUSH and thugs,and get us to where we need to go,get on board ,solidly with JOHN KERRY. He's the only DEM that will beat Bush. I have been following this Senator since the 70's and I think we blew it the last election by not standing behind KERRY,pulling him front and forward.He's right on the issues,because he's involved with ALL the issues that matter to Americans.The country is still in a "fear factor mode" and Kerry is asking us to stand up to these fears and takes us from the fear to the challenges that will prevent further attacks, and will "engage"[ now there's a new word}us "we the people",by building co-alitions to move forward and get the USA independent of the world's oil supplies that support these roots of terorism! Kerry's stance on the environment is powerfull as it moves us in the right direction of good jobs,by inventing our way out of the messes we have allowed the BUSH Administration to get us into!Kerry has the best health care plan,that won't take us futher in debt and it will balance the budget,as health care costs continue to rise.By re-strucuring our own infra-structue we will have the best jobs and we'll give BUSH a pink slip! We made an industry out of bottled water that soon only thiose who got a tax break will be able to afford,not to mention{DAH},there must be something wrong with that water we drink!DEAN will only lose to BUSH and a vote for DEAN will go to BUSH! JOHN KERRY will take BUSH on with the lies and deceptions,but more importantly KERRY will lead us where we need to go,and a real spirt of patriotism will prevail,like we've never seen before.And we'll stand proud with our neighbors abroad in this war on terrorism as KERRY'S mission will be one of engagement until we come to peace.It will be a journey like no other and you will be proud to be an American again. No one has given so much to this country,sacrificed so much for it's citizens, and will continue to work for ALL AMERICANS..go check out his record of honesty,integrity,and all the inside challenges this KERRY guy has done. It is an impressive record, and let the record speak for itself!Until 911 BUSH hadn't a clue of why he was chosen,and that event gave him a mission..how sad for America,that we continue to lose lives daily,we still haven't got Saddam,and BIN -Laden is still on the loose.The budget will reach never-ending proportions,with no end in site, and "we the people" are paying for it on all fronts!BUSH came to office with so few credentials,JOHN KERRY will come with many!
08-01-2003 03:42 AM ET (US)
If you want to save this country from BUSH and thugs,and get us to where we need to go,get on board ,solidly with JOHN KERRY. He's the only DEM that will beat Bush. I have been following this Senator since the 70's and I think we blew it the last election by not standing behind KERRY,pulling him front and forward.He's right on the issues,because he's involved with ALL the issues that matter to Americans.The country is still in a "fear factor mode" and Kerry is asking us to stand up to these fears and takes us from the fear to the challenges that will prevent further attacks, and will "engage"[ now there's a new word}us "we the people",by building co-alitions to move forward and get the USA independent of the world's oil supplies that support these roots of terorism! Kerry's stance on the environment is powerfull as it moves us in the right direction of good jobs,by inventing our way out of the messes we have allowed the BUSH Administration to get us into!Kerry has the best health care plan,that won't take us futher in debt and it will balance the budget,as health care costs continue to rise.By re-strucuring our own infra-structue we will have the best jobs and we'll give BUSH a pink slip! We made an industry out of bottled water that soon only thiose who got a tax break will be able to afford,not to mention{DAH},there must be something wrong with that water we drink!DEAN will only lose to BUSH and a vote for DEAN will go to BUSH! JOHN KERRY will take BUSH on with the lies and deceptions,but more importantly KERRY will lead us where we need to go,and a real spirt of patriotism will prevail,like we've never seen before.And we'll stand proud with our neighbors abroad in this war on terrorism as KERRY'S mission will be one of engagement until we come to peace.It will be a journey like no other and you will be proud to be an American again. No one has given so much to this country,sacrificed so much for it's citizens, and will continue to work for ALL AMERICANS..go check out his record of honesty,integrity,and all the inside challenges this KERRY guy has done. It is an impressive record, and let the record speak for itself!Until 911 BUSH hadn't a clue of why he was chosen,and that event gave him a mission..how sad for America,that we continue to lose lives daily,we still haven't got Saddam,and BIN -Laden is still on the loose.The budget will reach never-ending proportions,with no end in site, and "we the people" are paying for it on all fronts!BUSH came to office with so few credentials,JOHN KERRY will come with many!
Ann Stewart 107
08-01-2003 03:46 AM ET (US)
Thank you Patti
I am so happy to see some of John Kerry's supporters show up. What you have just said will be posted on his comments page. Thankyou for education us on John Kerry, we need to know more about the men we are voting for.
08-01-2003 03:46 AM ET (US)
Thank you Patti
I am so happy to see some of John Kerry's supporters show up. What you have just said will be posted on his comments page. Thankyou for education us on John Kerry, we need to know more about the men we are voting for.
Patti Ferschke 108
08-01-2003 04:07 AM ET (US)
What I really like about KERRY is his quick ability to think on his feet,and then "engage" a group in dialogue. He's a natural and you need to obsereve his abilities as opposed to BUSH [the white house staff must go balistic when "w" gets in front of reporters},but KERRY is quick to grasp the issues at hand,and go with the flow.You must read the the article posted in the MAY issue of American Windsurfer magazine and you will know KERRY has been thoughtful re: this presidency for some time...go to americanwindsurfer.com/mag/back/issues5.5..it's most revealing as to his thought process,and you will see the incredible,insightful abilities of this person. I heard him speak recently in Tacoma Wa. {late June},and he can work a room. There were many from the DEAN camp present and when KERRY finished they all signed on.YOU must go get involved if you want to support KERRY,go to the meetups in your cities,bring friends and have a great time! Sign up on the KERRY meetup site and do go there . He will beat BUSH,but we need to get behind this sane and very intelligent person. There is no perfect candidate anywhere,but KERRY beats what we have and we'll get to where we need to go,come the next 10 years!...it's your vote!!!.PAtti,Wa State
08-01-2003 04:07 AM ET (US)
What I really like about KERRY is his quick ability to think on his feet,and then "engage" a group in dialogue. He's a natural and you need to obsereve his abilities as opposed to BUSH [the white house staff must go balistic when "w" gets in front of reporters},but KERRY is quick to grasp the issues at hand,and go with the flow.You must read the the article posted in the MAY issue of American Windsurfer magazine and you will know KERRY has been thoughtful re: this presidency for some time...go to americanwindsurfer.com/mag/back/issues5.5..it's most revealing as to his thought process,and you will see the incredible,insightful abilities of this person. I heard him speak recently in Tacoma Wa. {late June},and he can work a room. There were many from the DEAN camp present and when KERRY finished they all signed on.YOU must go get involved if you want to support KERRY,go to the meetups in your cities,bring friends and have a great time! Sign up on the KERRY meetup site and do go there . He will beat BUSH,but we need to get behind this sane and very intelligent person. There is no perfect candidate anywhere,but KERRY beats what we have and we'll get to where we need to go,come the next 10 years!...it's your vote!!!.PAtti,Wa State
Ann Stewart 109
08-01-2003 04:23 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-01-2003 04:24 AM
Dear Patti
I thank you again for coming to the debate to stand by Kerry.
This group is for educating the people about the candidates. There are many people that come here who are still undecided about whom to vote for. So if you could can you educate us on why we should chose your Candidate Kerry over the other demarcates in the Democratic Primary? I am still undecided myself and would like to know more about Kerry. It seems as though Kerry and Dean are pulling ahead of the other candidates or at least that has been what was reported by a few sources.
But it is late and I live in Nashville. It is almost 3:30 in the morning and I must rest now. So please post here all you want. What you are doing is a good thing. You are educating this discussion group about Kerry and our discussion group is growing everyday.
Good night Patti
Thank you again for coming to the debate.
Feel free to post all night if you want to. It gives me more information for the web site.
08-01-2003 04:23 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-01-2003 04:24 AM
Dear Patti
I thank you again for coming to the debate to stand by Kerry.
This group is for educating the people about the candidates. There are many people that come here who are still undecided about whom to vote for. So if you could can you educate us on why we should chose your Candidate Kerry over the other demarcates in the Democratic Primary? I am still undecided myself and would like to know more about Kerry. It seems as though Kerry and Dean are pulling ahead of the other candidates or at least that has been what was reported by a few sources.
But it is late and I live in Nashville. It is almost 3:30 in the morning and I must rest now. So please post here all you want. What you are doing is a good thing. You are educating this discussion group about Kerry and our discussion group is growing everyday.
Good night Patti
Thank you again for coming to the debate.
Feel free to post all night if you want to. It gives me more information for the web site.
Patti Ferschke 110
08-01-2003 04:50 AM ET (US)
Wouldn't you rather have an "insider" in the office of the Presedency ;someone that works on the intelligence committee;someone that knows about those cells of terrorism;someone that can reach across the great divide of the Senate and the House,and not fool "we the paople" with the statement ["I'm a uniter not a divider],that we now know would never happen;someone that supports and promotes education and is willing to take us to task and solve these problems !?? Dean governed a State of under a million people,has no foreign policy experience,and stumps on issues on major networks. KERRY has worked on issues that have "PROVEN" results and affect millions of people! DEAN is NOT what we need! But in all honesty DEAN does appeal to the "people",for his blunt honesty,and he will attract the anti-war folks. I was one of those "anti-war" folks too and still am,but it's my belief that since we went to war,lets get out of war and build a strong road map to peace.That road will only happen with JOHN KERRY. Chosing KERRY means building those co-alitions in our communities to achieve what we need in terms of education,health care and jobs,and not leaving kids behind. KIDS are our most valuable resource,our future,and if we don't get a hand on this educational system NOW we have failed them badly, and certainly fooled ourselves! Then we move on to broader co-alitions, on a national scale ,of bridging gaps,between racial predujdices,and those citizens that seem to be under constant surveilance related to the constraints of the Patriot act,which needs to be re-visited. We do this by supporting AMERICORPS and not alienating those that want to live in AMERICA,and want to come and be educated here. Then we move on to building and maintianing the alliances we make with other nations to build nations that support the peace process,by tending to the needs of all people , and not just the "select few" that get a break from the what-evers, that this Administration supports to get what they want or think "WE" need. We need to ask ourselves the hard questions,would we have, perhaps, been better off to up-root the seeds of terrorism by turning on the water supply of the world,rather than all this money we have now spent on war? It's my belief those "terrorists"would have thought twice about attacking,anyone that would not think well of the USA.This is what we're about,this is where we need to go,and this is
what w need to do ! Support JOHN KERRY..we will go there !
Patti Ferschke,WA. State
08-01-2003 04:50 AM ET (US)
Wouldn't you rather have an "insider" in the office of the Presedency ;someone that works on the intelligence committee;someone that knows about those cells of terrorism;someone that can reach across the great divide of the Senate and the House,and not fool "we the paople" with the statement ["I'm a uniter not a divider],that we now know would never happen;someone that supports and promotes education and is willing to take us to task and solve these problems !?? Dean governed a State of under a million people,has no foreign policy experience,and stumps on issues on major networks. KERRY has worked on issues that have "PROVEN" results and affect millions of people! DEAN is NOT what we need! But in all honesty DEAN does appeal to the "people",for his blunt honesty,and he will attract the anti-war folks. I was one of those "anti-war" folks too and still am,but it's my belief that since we went to war,lets get out of war and build a strong road map to peace.That road will only happen with JOHN KERRY. Chosing KERRY means building those co-alitions in our communities to achieve what we need in terms of education,health care and jobs,and not leaving kids behind. KIDS are our most valuable resource,our future,and if we don't get a hand on this educational system NOW we have failed them badly, and certainly fooled ourselves! Then we move on to broader co-alitions, on a national scale ,of bridging gaps,between racial predujdices,and those citizens that seem to be under constant surveilance related to the constraints of the Patriot act,which needs to be re-visited. We do this by supporting AMERICORPS and not alienating those that want to live in AMERICA,and want to come and be educated here. Then we move on to building and maintianing the alliances we make with other nations to build nations that support the peace process,by tending to the needs of all people , and not just the "select few" that get a break from the what-evers, that this Administration supports to get what they want or think "WE" need. We need to ask ourselves the hard questions,would we have, perhaps, been better off to up-root the seeds of terrorism by turning on the water supply of the world,rather than all this money we have now spent on war? It's my belief those "terrorists"would have thought twice about attacking,anyone that would not think well of the USA.This is what we're about,this is where we need to go,and this is
what w need to do ! Support JOHN KERRY..we will go there !
Patti Ferschke,WA. State
Patti Ferschke 111
08-01-2003 05:35 AM ET (US)
Kerry has a "liberal" stance on voting,but I like to call KERRY a "progressive". By that I mean he may be "liberal" on issues such as gay- rights and abortion,but he's also high on compromise,and realizes he won't always get it his way. But that's how we build alliances and get people thinking about issues that affect ALL human beings. Every life has value,every person is unique and every person on this planet has a right to be "engaged" in dialogue that affects their well-being! KERRY, for this election, has moved toward the "center" to attract those undecided voters as this will help the cause,and that's what a leader needs to do . NOW,have you seen a "right-winger" take that challenge and stance irregardless of his or her own "feelings"? BUSH tried but we know where that got us!! Of couse NOT. Because to be a real leader one may need to negate their own "feelings" for the common good of all people. That is what JOHN KERRY is about and he will fight tooth and nail to see that ALL people are cared for,and the rights of ALL people won't get trampled on in the process! To lead us into the next phase of challenges it's going to take a new vision to build concensus on how to do that. We need to do that by making the right choices now,as the time is now! I'm really sick to death of all the bad press that anyone with a brain gets plowed over,and we allow the NO SPIN ZONE to take over our thought process. We for the most part have been endowed with good brains and we need dialogue and not have pundits dictating to that process.We need to demand better from our leaders and we need to demand better press. "We the people" own the press and free speech is not only a right but a blessing! If that "blessing is not of our belief ,rather than turning it off, we need to embrace the differences and ask ourselves the hard questions of WHY that turns us off. The press has the ability to only give us what they deem to make us all right and center thinkers. We are not ,nor should we be of only one "brained" or right 'brained ideas.We need to become "'out of the box",critical thinkers as that's how problems will be solved for the good of all! JOHN KERRY is an "out of the box",critical thinker. WE will do some great thinking and face some "enlightening" ideas, far from the maddening crowd should he lead us these next years! Let's enjoy the journey aned the ride!~..Thanks ,Patti Ferschke
08-01-2003 05:35 AM ET (US)
Kerry has a "liberal" stance on voting,but I like to call KERRY a "progressive". By that I mean he may be "liberal" on issues such as gay- rights and abortion,but he's also high on compromise,and realizes he won't always get it his way. But that's how we build alliances and get people thinking about issues that affect ALL human beings. Every life has value,every person is unique and every person on this planet has a right to be "engaged" in dialogue that affects their well-being! KERRY, for this election, has moved toward the "center" to attract those undecided voters as this will help the cause,and that's what a leader needs to do . NOW,have you seen a "right-winger" take that challenge and stance irregardless of his or her own "feelings"? BUSH tried but we know where that got us!! Of couse NOT. Because to be a real leader one may need to negate their own "feelings" for the common good of all people. That is what JOHN KERRY is about and he will fight tooth and nail to see that ALL people are cared for,and the rights of ALL people won't get trampled on in the process! To lead us into the next phase of challenges it's going to take a new vision to build concensus on how to do that. We need to do that by making the right choices now,as the time is now! I'm really sick to death of all the bad press that anyone with a brain gets plowed over,and we allow the NO SPIN ZONE to take over our thought process. We for the most part have been endowed with good brains and we need dialogue and not have pundits dictating to that process.We need to demand better from our leaders and we need to demand better press. "We the people" own the press and free speech is not only a right but a blessing! If that "blessing is not of our belief ,rather than turning it off, we need to embrace the differences and ask ourselves the hard questions of WHY that turns us off. The press has the ability to only give us what they deem to make us all right and center thinkers. We are not ,nor should we be of only one "brained" or right 'brained ideas.We need to become "'out of the box",critical thinkers as that's how problems will be solved for the good of all! JOHN KERRY is an "out of the box",critical thinker. WE will do some great thinking and face some "enlightening" ideas, far from the maddening crowd should he lead us these next years! Let's enjoy the journey aned the ride!~..Thanks ,Patti Ferschke
Patti Ferschke 112
08-01-2003 05:44 AM ET (US)
Also you can go to ..independentsforkerry.org..see what they have to say..it's good !..PATTI
08-01-2003 05:44 AM ET (US)
Also you can go to ..independentsforkerry.org..see what they have to say..it's good !..PATTI
Keith Brekhus 113
08-01-2003 10:01 AM ET (US)
I like Kerry, but it rankles me that both he and Gephardt voted for the resolution authorizing war on Iraq and then now that people are ambivalent about the war again, they have the temerity to criticize Bush for going to war...a war they supported!
Lieberman also voted for the war but at least he has been consistent and hasn't tried to act anti-war as the war loses popularity. Dean is the only one of the four who spoke out against the war from the beginning. Anyone can speak up when a war is going poorly, but it takes a person of courage to challenge the President before he sends the troops while the war is still popular.
It doesn't sit well with me when people like Kerry go along with the war, and then turn around and act like they were against it when things start going bad. I know he voted for the war, so I find it insulting to my intelligence when he tries to act like he is against the war. It smacks of political opportunism to me.
The Democrats need a leader who will stand up to the Republican Congress in the next four years (the Republicans probably will control the House and Senate still). Dean has the backbone to do it. After watching Kerry and Gephardt fall in line with Bush's war, I'm not sure either one of them has enough spine to fight the Republicans when they need to.
08-01-2003 10:01 AM ET (US)
I like Kerry, but it rankles me that both he and Gephardt voted for the resolution authorizing war on Iraq and then now that people are ambivalent about the war again, they have the temerity to criticize Bush for going to war...a war they supported!
Lieberman also voted for the war but at least he has been consistent and hasn't tried to act anti-war as the war loses popularity. Dean is the only one of the four who spoke out against the war from the beginning. Anyone can speak up when a war is going poorly, but it takes a person of courage to challenge the President before he sends the troops while the war is still popular.
It doesn't sit well with me when people like Kerry go along with the war, and then turn around and act like they were against it when things start going bad. I know he voted for the war, so I find it insulting to my intelligence when he tries to act like he is against the war. It smacks of political opportunism to me.
The Democrats need a leader who will stand up to the Republican Congress in the next four years (the Republicans probably will control the House and Senate still). Dean has the backbone to do it. After watching Kerry and Gephardt fall in line with Bush's war, I'm not sure either one of them has enough spine to fight the Republicans when they need to.
Chris R. 114
08-01-2003 11:01 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-01-2003 11:04 AM
I am trying to choose between Kerry, Dean or Lieberman. At least I narrowed it down that far. I'm more of a conservative democrat. I also worry about taxes getting raised after Bush gets out of office. Have any of the democratic men running made a firm promised not to raise taxes?
I feel like America is broke after all the spending Bush has done, but I don’t want to get taxed out the nose by a new President. That always seems to happen when the surplus is low, like it is now. It happened in the Clinton years. Clinton over taxed Americans. That’s why we had such a large surplus, that Bush TOTALLY BLEW!!!!! Thanks to Bush we may spend the rest of our lives trying to pay off the debt he got us into.
Also Bush is a terrible President, because he searches for words to use, and than he finally will find a small one to place in a sentence. I have never heard Kerry or Dean speak. I have heard Lieberman on Television. Lieberman has good speech skills. Patti says Kerry has good speech skills. I haven’t heard anything about how good Dean’s pubic speaking is. When I vote for a President, I will vote for some one who has good Public speaking skills, so he won’t make our country look stupid. BUSH MAKES OUR COUNTRY LOOK STUPID. How Bush ever got in to office with his low grade speech skills is unbelievable.
08-01-2003 11:01 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-01-2003 11:04 AM
I am trying to choose between Kerry, Dean or Lieberman. At least I narrowed it down that far. I'm more of a conservative democrat. I also worry about taxes getting raised after Bush gets out of office. Have any of the democratic men running made a firm promised not to raise taxes?
I feel like America is broke after all the spending Bush has done, but I don’t want to get taxed out the nose by a new President. That always seems to happen when the surplus is low, like it is now. It happened in the Clinton years. Clinton over taxed Americans. That’s why we had such a large surplus, that Bush TOTALLY BLEW!!!!! Thanks to Bush we may spend the rest of our lives trying to pay off the debt he got us into.
Also Bush is a terrible President, because he searches for words to use, and than he finally will find a small one to place in a sentence. I have never heard Kerry or Dean speak. I have heard Lieberman on Television. Lieberman has good speech skills. Patti says Kerry has good speech skills. I haven’t heard anything about how good Dean’s pubic speaking is. When I vote for a President, I will vote for some one who has good Public speaking skills, so he won’t make our country look stupid. BUSH MAKES OUR COUNTRY LOOK STUPID. How Bush ever got in to office with his low grade speech skills is unbelievable.
Keith Brekhus 115
08-01-2003 11:31 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-01-2003 11:37 AM
Chris R.
Kerry and Lieberman both voted for Clinton's 1993 tax increase. Dean was a Governor at the time, so its hard to say how he would have voted. Traditionally conservative anti-tax groups don't give either Kerry or Lieberman high marks although Lieberman is generally rated slightly more taxpayer-friendly than Kerry (but this is mostly for Lieberman's support for capital gains tax cuts rather than for specifically easing the tax burden of working-class people).
Dean cut taxes once as Governor of Vermont and the conservative anti-tax CATO institute gave him a "B" grade his first two terms as Governor for keeping taxes low.
However they gave him Cs and Ds his last three terms.
Personally I think any of the three (Kerry, Dean, or Lieberman) will not raise taxes other than increasing the marginal tax rate for the wealthiest tax payers and closing off-shore corporate loopholes to help balance the budget.
Of the three, I think Kerry is the most likely to raise taxes, as both Dean and Lieberman have some reputation as fiscal conservatives. I am not sure between Dean and Lieberman who would be less likely to raise taxes. Personally I support Dean, but its very hard to compare a Governor's record with a Senator's so I can't say for sure who is more fiscally conservative between the two.
I also think a tax increase may become necessary. If so I trust all three of these candidates would pass a more equitable increase than Bush would. My guess is Bush will continue to borrow us into debt and force the governors to raise state taxes and cut essential services to the bone, and this will have a serious impact on working families.
08-01-2003 11:31 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-01-2003 11:37 AM
Chris R.
Kerry and Lieberman both voted for Clinton's 1993 tax increase. Dean was a Governor at the time, so its hard to say how he would have voted. Traditionally conservative anti-tax groups don't give either Kerry or Lieberman high marks although Lieberman is generally rated slightly more taxpayer-friendly than Kerry (but this is mostly for Lieberman's support for capital gains tax cuts rather than for specifically easing the tax burden of working-class people).
Dean cut taxes once as Governor of Vermont and the conservative anti-tax CATO institute gave him a "B" grade his first two terms as Governor for keeping taxes low.
However they gave him Cs and Ds his last three terms.
Personally I think any of the three (Kerry, Dean, or Lieberman) will not raise taxes other than increasing the marginal tax rate for the wealthiest tax payers and closing off-shore corporate loopholes to help balance the budget.
Of the three, I think Kerry is the most likely to raise taxes, as both Dean and Lieberman have some reputation as fiscal conservatives. I am not sure between Dean and Lieberman who would be less likely to raise taxes. Personally I support Dean, but its very hard to compare a Governor's record with a Senator's so I can't say for sure who is more fiscally conservative between the two.
I also think a tax increase may become necessary. If so I trust all three of these candidates would pass a more equitable increase than Bush would. My guess is Bush will continue to borrow us into debt and force the governors to raise state taxes and cut essential services to the bone, and this will have a serious impact on working families.
Little Ann 116
08-01-2003 12:42 PM ET (US)
Chris, I'd encourage you to get involved in Dean's campaign, or at least look into it.
To me, part of what makes the Dean movement so invigorating is that his message has inspired people all over the nation to get involved with the process again. Yes, Patti, he IS an outsider in the Washington beltway, but that has its advantages. Politics has been described as 'the art of compromise,' but I fear that our government increasingly compromises the safety, security and rights of Americans and puts monied interests first. I don't want an Enron government -- look what Bush's buddy Ken Lay has done to the state of California and imagine that on a national scale. Terrifying.
Governor Howard Dean has given the public new hope that it doesn't have to be this way. Tens of thousands of people are scraping together what they can and donating it to Dean -- including many who are unemployed, or elderly, or single moms, et al -- because they believe that in him they have found a leader who will represent the best interests of the country as a whole. In fact, most of Dean's financing to date has come from ordinary people like you and me. And HE was the leading fundraiser in this last quarter!
Believe me, I'll support Kerry in a heartbeat over Bush, and I do believe he's a good man who has done great service for this country. However, Patti, I just don't think he has the 'big MO' going in the way that Dean does. Being a Washington insider doesn't count for much with me... may I ask you to elaborate; specifically why do you feel Dean is unelectable? Because he lacks experience in foreign policy? (He has travelled extensively and met with many prominent world leaders).
In Dean I see a leader who is practical and who is moral. He has done a great job for us in the state of Vermont. He's highly qualified, he's blunt but articulate, he's a practical decision-maker, AND he will make the right decision even if it's unpopular. While he is willing to say "I don't know" sometimes, you can bet that he will weigh all the evidence and learn all he can on the important questions of state! We need someone in the Oval Office who knows the true meaning of 'good intelligence!' I can't wait for election day so I can shout:
"THE DOCTOR IS IN!!!"
Thanks everyone and sorry for the long post...
:)
08-01-2003 12:42 PM ET (US)
Chris, I'd encourage you to get involved in Dean's campaign, or at least look into it.
To me, part of what makes the Dean movement so invigorating is that his message has inspired people all over the nation to get involved with the process again. Yes, Patti, he IS an outsider in the Washington beltway, but that has its advantages. Politics has been described as 'the art of compromise,' but I fear that our government increasingly compromises the safety, security and rights of Americans and puts monied interests first. I don't want an Enron government -- look what Bush's buddy Ken Lay has done to the state of California and imagine that on a national scale. Terrifying.
Governor Howard Dean has given the public new hope that it doesn't have to be this way. Tens of thousands of people are scraping together what they can and donating it to Dean -- including many who are unemployed, or elderly, or single moms, et al -- because they believe that in him they have found a leader who will represent the best interests of the country as a whole. In fact, most of Dean's financing to date has come from ordinary people like you and me. And HE was the leading fundraiser in this last quarter!
Believe me, I'll support Kerry in a heartbeat over Bush, and I do believe he's a good man who has done great service for this country. However, Patti, I just don't think he has the 'big MO' going in the way that Dean does. Being a Washington insider doesn't count for much with me... may I ask you to elaborate; specifically why do you feel Dean is unelectable? Because he lacks experience in foreign policy? (He has travelled extensively and met with many prominent world leaders).
In Dean I see a leader who is practical and who is moral. He has done a great job for us in the state of Vermont. He's highly qualified, he's blunt but articulate, he's a practical decision-maker, AND he will make the right decision even if it's unpopular. While he is willing to say "I don't know" sometimes, you can bet that he will weigh all the evidence and learn all he can on the important questions of state! We need someone in the Oval Office who knows the true meaning of 'good intelligence!' I can't wait for election day so I can shout:
"THE DOCTOR IS IN!!!"
Thanks everyone and sorry for the long post...
:)
Patti Ferschke 117
08-01-2003 12:48 PM ET (US)
It's my belief,if we want what is right for all"the people",we will need to raise taxes,however,the tax base must and will be a fair and balanced one,that finally will take the burden off the backs of the middle income wage earners. I"m certainly no better off today than I was when Clinton was in office,or now that BUSH is in office. Kerry's tax plan will at least support a nat'l health care policy,which I'm all for, as that is where we lose as health care costs continue to rise.It's simply not true that those Senators that supported the war continue to take an un-stance now.BUSH gave them his mantra last Fall,and it was agreed that BUSH would complete and leave in tact the weapons inspectors,which we know he later dismissed, That BUSH would get the support of the UN and later dismissed. That the Senate and Congress were misled as to the information received we all know were untrue and mis-construed facts and deceptions,is the information they did receieve. How does one support that war now? We get behind the one person that gets us to peace.I have and will get to you a site where you can go to and read KERRY's response to Bush on the issue of going to Iraq,it's long but it challenges BUSH on the issue and takes into consideration going to war is a most serious matter. I'd rather be taxed for puplic services to those who need it, than all our dollars going to this war.Patti
08-01-2003 12:48 PM ET (US)
It's my belief,if we want what is right for all"the people",we will need to raise taxes,however,the tax base must and will be a fair and balanced one,that finally will take the burden off the backs of the middle income wage earners. I"m certainly no better off today than I was when Clinton was in office,or now that BUSH is in office. Kerry's tax plan will at least support a nat'l health care policy,which I'm all for, as that is where we lose as health care costs continue to rise.It's simply not true that those Senators that supported the war continue to take an un-stance now.BUSH gave them his mantra last Fall,and it was agreed that BUSH would complete and leave in tact the weapons inspectors,which we know he later dismissed, That BUSH would get the support of the UN and later dismissed. That the Senate and Congress were misled as to the information received we all know were untrue and mis-construed facts and deceptions,is the information they did receieve. How does one support that war now? We get behind the one person that gets us to peace.I have and will get to you a site where you can go to and read KERRY's response to Bush on the issue of going to Iraq,it's long but it challenges BUSH on the issue and takes into consideration going to war is a most serious matter. I'd rather be taxed for puplic services to those who need it, than all our dollars going to this war.Patti
sindhu kumar 118
08-01-2003 01:59 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-01-2003 02:00 PM
i like this discussion group about bush and the democrats. personally, i am thinking of changing party affliations. i am a registered republican/independent. i did vote for senator mary landrieu ( a democrat) against challenger suzanne haik terrell (louisiana state elections commissioner, a republican, who had president bush's support and money). this was the senate race that did not give the republicans complete control of the senate. in some states, we have gubernatorial elections this year including my home state of louisiana. since the republican field for the race to replace two-term outgoing governor mike foster is crowded, there is not a strong democract who can replace him. i am going to vote for bobby jindhal (who is an indian american and a republican). if he loses the primary, i will vote for a democrat.
08-01-2003 01:59 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-01-2003 02:00 PM
i like this discussion group about bush and the democrats. personally, i am thinking of changing party affliations. i am a registered republican/independent. i did vote for senator mary landrieu ( a democrat) against challenger suzanne haik terrell (louisiana state elections commissioner, a republican, who had president bush's support and money). this was the senate race that did not give the republicans complete control of the senate. in some states, we have gubernatorial elections this year including my home state of louisiana. since the republican field for the race to replace two-term outgoing governor mike foster is crowded, there is not a strong democract who can replace him. i am going to vote for bobby jindhal (who is an indian american and a republican). if he loses the primary, i will vote for a democrat.
Tara 119
08-01-2003 04:11 PM ET (US)
First of all, it just “floors” me to realize that a lot of people don’t inherently already know or agree on how to correctly treat others. Given that, this election is going to take a lot of strategy, just like if we were in an actual war ourselves. Busy people need to do a lot of careful screening and pay close attention to what is going on the world. ( It is no mistake that we Americans are kept twice as busy as we were , say 30 years age.) I remember when only one parent in a household needed to work to keep a family going. Now it requires 2 or more. What a clever way to pull the wool over our eyes, if you will. Our present Bush regime is not good for a lot of reasons. At any rate Americans, now more that ever, need to take voting seriously (especially minority groups) otherwise, we might find ourselves locked out of the right to survive. Look at Nazi Germany, there is nothing today, that says the current Bush administration could not be headed in that direction.
08-01-2003 04:11 PM ET (US)
First of all, it just “floors” me to realize that a lot of people don’t inherently already know or agree on how to correctly treat others. Given that, this election is going to take a lot of strategy, just like if we were in an actual war ourselves. Busy people need to do a lot of careful screening and pay close attention to what is going on the world. ( It is no mistake that we Americans are kept twice as busy as we were , say 30 years age.) I remember when only one parent in a household needed to work to keep a family going. Now it requires 2 or more. What a clever way to pull the wool over our eyes, if you will. Our present Bush regime is not good for a lot of reasons. At any rate Americans, now more that ever, need to take voting seriously (especially minority groups) otherwise, we might find ourselves locked out of the right to survive. Look at Nazi Germany, there is nothing today, that says the current Bush administration could not be headed in that direction.
JIMMY 120
08-01-2003 04:15 PM ET (US)
I THINK I MAY GO WITH HOWARD DEAN TOO, BUT DOES ANYBODY BELIEVE JOE BIDEN OR RALPH NADAR CAN MESS UP THE CHANCE FOR DEAN TO WIN?
08-01-2003 04:15 PM ET (US)
I THINK I MAY GO WITH HOWARD DEAN TOO, BUT DOES ANYBODY BELIEVE JOE BIDEN OR RALPH NADAR CAN MESS UP THE CHANCE FOR DEAN TO WIN?
JIMMY 121
08-01-2003 04:20 PM ET (US)
I BELIEVE DEAN HAS A BETTER CHANCE OF WINNING BECAUSE HE’S A GOVENOR. KERRY IS A SENITOR. I DON’T THINK THAT ADDS TO HIS APPEAL. WE NEED A GOVENOR TO WIN THIS ELECTION AGAINST BUSH. I THINK DEAN HAS A BETTER SHOT THAN KERRY
08-01-2003 04:20 PM ET (US)
I BELIEVE DEAN HAS A BETTER CHANCE OF WINNING BECAUSE HE’S A GOVENOR. KERRY IS A SENITOR. I DON’T THINK THAT ADDS TO HIS APPEAL. WE NEED A GOVENOR TO WIN THIS ELECTION AGAINST BUSH. I THINK DEAN HAS A BETTER SHOT THAN KERRY
Keith Brekhus 122
08-01-2003 04:42 PM ET (US)
Biden will not be a factor. If he enters the Democratic primary he hurts Kerry more than Dean, but seriously Biden hasn't raised any money yet...I don't see his campaign getting off the ground.
As for Nader, if Dean is the Democratic nominee, I doubt Nader gets more than 1% of the national vote. Most Nader voters from 2000 don't want four more years of Bush, and unless the Democrats nominate Lieberman I don't think the Greens get many votes this time around.
Governors historically do much better than Senators in presidential races and Dean is definitely stronger in swing states like New Mexico, Nevada, Wisconsin, Oregon and Iowa than Kerry is. This is key because the Democrats may need all of those states to win and Dean has the best appeal in those states.
08-01-2003 04:42 PM ET (US)
Biden will not be a factor. If he enters the Democratic primary he hurts Kerry more than Dean, but seriously Biden hasn't raised any money yet...I don't see his campaign getting off the ground.
As for Nader, if Dean is the Democratic nominee, I doubt Nader gets more than 1% of the national vote. Most Nader voters from 2000 don't want four more years of Bush, and unless the Democrats nominate Lieberman I don't think the Greens get many votes this time around.
Governors historically do much better than Senators in presidential races and Dean is definitely stronger in swing states like New Mexico, Nevada, Wisconsin, Oregon and Iowa than Kerry is. This is key because the Democrats may need all of those states to win and Dean has the best appeal in those states.
Ann Stewart 123
08-01-2003 04:42 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-01-2003 04:46 PM
Hello Ladies and Gentlemen
I love your comments you all brought some good points up today. I will get busy on posting them for you. Check the comments page and thank you all for participating in the debate.
Sindhu I will see you at the Gupta Gab.
I will share my experiences with the new group. I grew up in a very republican family, but I am not registered as a republican or a democrat, so I will not be voting in the democratic primaries, but I want the best democratic candidate we can get to face Bush. You see my issue is mainly the war. I have family in the military. Many members of my family served in the Gulf war too. It tore my family apart. 2 members of my family got sent overseas to Germany and Saudi Arabia and Bush Sr. just left them out there for years. My poor mother about had an allure from worrying over them. It was scary for my family, and now Bush Jr. get elected and the same thing happens all over again. Those poor troops are just left out there in Iraq getting pick off one by one. The war is not over. That is just what the current administration just wants you to think. The war will not be over until our men and women are safely at home. I want a man in the White House who is going to bring our men and women (our brothers and sisters) home. I get so tired of hearing on the new 12 more soldiers dead today or 2 more kill at a checkpoint in Iraq. I love our men and women in uniform and I want them home safely.
The really issue to me is Iraq, the war, and the safety of our men and women in uniform. I can get over the economy being totally eat’in by the Bush adminstration, but I just want everybody including Iraqians to live. NO MORE DEATH caused by a war that would have never have happened if another man was in the White House. That’s just my opinion. I hope it doesn’t offend anybody. Those who are for the war don't judge me until you've lived in my shoes.
08-01-2003 04:42 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-01-2003 04:46 PM
Hello Ladies and Gentlemen
I love your comments you all brought some good points up today. I will get busy on posting them for you. Check the comments page and thank you all for participating in the debate.
Sindhu I will see you at the Gupta Gab.
I will share my experiences with the new group. I grew up in a very republican family, but I am not registered as a republican or a democrat, so I will not be voting in the democratic primaries, but I want the best democratic candidate we can get to face Bush. You see my issue is mainly the war. I have family in the military. Many members of my family served in the Gulf war too. It tore my family apart. 2 members of my family got sent overseas to Germany and Saudi Arabia and Bush Sr. just left them out there for years. My poor mother about had an allure from worrying over them. It was scary for my family, and now Bush Jr. get elected and the same thing happens all over again. Those poor troops are just left out there in Iraq getting pick off one by one. The war is not over. That is just what the current administration just wants you to think. The war will not be over until our men and women are safely at home. I want a man in the White House who is going to bring our men and women (our brothers and sisters) home. I get so tired of hearing on the new 12 more soldiers dead today or 2 more kill at a checkpoint in Iraq. I love our men and women in uniform and I want them home safely.
The really issue to me is Iraq, the war, and the safety of our men and women in uniform. I can get over the economy being totally eat’in by the Bush adminstration, but I just want everybody including Iraqians to live. NO MORE DEATH caused by a war that would have never have happened if another man was in the White House. That’s just my opinion. I hope it doesn’t offend anybody. Those who are for the war don't judge me until you've lived in my shoes.
Patti Ferschke 124
08-01-2003 04:47 PM ET (US)
Okay,here I go again..please go to the site.."independents forkerry.org.....read the scripts and you will see why KERRY will win over DEAN !Then here's another one on all the candidates,that will sift through the fields of the candidates.Go to "havensworks.com..{it's a google search],click on the right side and field the issues on each candidate. Write to the DNC and tell them no way to GORE and Hillary as these are only names "the people are familiar with. GORE ran a horible campaign last election,Hillary is someone I respect,however,it's someone elses turn.I'm so happy to have found this site and communicate with thinking people,but if those of us here really want to "move-on"we need to back the best candidate to oust BUSH!If that person is DEAN,Kerry,or whomever we need to stay solid and back that person! NO whinninig ,no 3rd. party candidate and,no Ralph this go-round!But I still believe that the country will NOT back DEAN,he's not clear on issues that matter,and BUSH will rag on as Carl Rove already has him {DEAN}nailed! Look at the money BUSH will rack in on his month long vacation,and we can only hope this will not set well with the public,but it will set well with the Republicans!I have some more thoughts and will post in another script!..PATTI
08-01-2003 04:47 PM ET (US)
Okay,here I go again..please go to the site.."independents forkerry.org.....read the scripts and you will see why KERRY will win over DEAN !Then here's another one on all the candidates,that will sift through the fields of the candidates.Go to "havensworks.com..{it's a google search],click on the right side and field the issues on each candidate. Write to the DNC and tell them no way to GORE and Hillary as these are only names "the people are familiar with. GORE ran a horible campaign last election,Hillary is someone I respect,however,it's someone elses turn.I'm so happy to have found this site and communicate with thinking people,but if those of us here really want to "move-on"we need to back the best candidate to oust BUSH!If that person is DEAN,Kerry,or whomever we need to stay solid and back that person! NO whinninig ,no 3rd. party candidate and,no Ralph this go-round!But I still believe that the country will NOT back DEAN,he's not clear on issues that matter,and BUSH will rag on as Carl Rove already has him {DEAN}nailed! Look at the money BUSH will rack in on his month long vacation,and we can only hope this will not set well with the public,but it will set well with the Republicans!I have some more thoughts and will post in another script!..PATTI
Keith Brekhus 125
08-01-2003 04:54 PM ET (US)
I agree that Kerry is a better candidate than either Hilary or Gore who both have name recognition but neither would fare well against Bush/Rove and company. As far as Dean goes, I think people constantly underestimate him and his campaign staff. There fundraising efforts have been nothing short of brilliant...a very grassroots campaign that has thrived off 50 dollar donations and the energy of thousands of enthusiastic people.
Kerry's campaign has followed the old models of getting large generous donations from Democratic party regulars. Time will tell who is more electable between Dean and Kerry and I will support either one over Bush in the general election.
08-01-2003 04:54 PM ET (US)
I agree that Kerry is a better candidate than either Hilary or Gore who both have name recognition but neither would fare well against Bush/Rove and company. As far as Dean goes, I think people constantly underestimate him and his campaign staff. There fundraising efforts have been nothing short of brilliant...a very grassroots campaign that has thrived off 50 dollar donations and the energy of thousands of enthusiastic people.
Kerry's campaign has followed the old models of getting large generous donations from Democratic party regulars. Time will tell who is more electable between Dean and Kerry and I will support either one over Bush in the general election.
Ann Stewart 126
08-01-2003 04:55 PM ET (US)
I'm glad you have found us too Patti welcome to the debate. this is to educate people about the election. Where does Kerry stand on the war issue? It has been reported Dean was the first to oppose it out of all the Democratic nominees. That looks good to me on Dean’s part. Tell me Kerry's stand on it. I want to hear it from a Kerry supporter.
08-01-2003 04:55 PM ET (US)
I'm glad you have found us too Patti welcome to the debate. this is to educate people about the election. Where does Kerry stand on the war issue? It has been reported Dean was the first to oppose it out of all the Democratic nominees. That looks good to me on Dean’s part. Tell me Kerry's stand on it. I want to hear it from a Kerry supporter.
Ann Stewart 127
08-01-2003 05:33 PM ET (US)
Oh Patti just to let you know if you put http:// in front of your address it will be come a instant link where we can just click to the site you want us to see.
Keith you seem very educated about the election. Thankyou for all your info. Keith, Patty and Jonathan have done alot on getting the facts. I really mean it when I say thank you. Untill you guys showed up alot of us were in the dark on alot of information about the men who are running. You have helped so much.
And Little Ann your story was truly heartfelt. I am against abortion, but I have never been in your shoe, so I don't know what I would do if it happened to me. I don't like to be judged for my beliefs either, so I have no right to judge anybody. Thank you for sharing.
All of you feel free to post to your heart's content, this site will be created by your input, your comments and all the the general public is invited.
08-01-2003 05:33 PM ET (US)
Oh Patti just to let you know if you put http:// in front of your address it will be come a instant link where we can just click to the site you want us to see.
Keith you seem very educated about the election. Thankyou for all your info. Keith, Patty and Jonathan have done alot on getting the facts. I really mean it when I say thank you. Untill you guys showed up alot of us were in the dark on alot of information about the men who are running. You have helped so much.
And Little Ann your story was truly heartfelt. I am against abortion, but I have never been in your shoe, so I don't know what I would do if it happened to me. I don't like to be judged for my beliefs either, so I have no right to judge anybody. Thank you for sharing.
All of you feel free to post to your heart's content, this site will be created by your input, your comments and all the the general public is invited.
Patti Ferschke 128
08-01-2003 05:34 PM ET (US)
I have only a short time before I head off to work,so I'll get on with it.I'm an R.N.,I work in a rural area of the Olympic Peninsula in Wa, state. I grew up in the Cleveland area,lived the nightmare of the Vietnam war,losing many nurse friends,and watched as others close to me lost spouses,friends,brothers, neighbors, sisters,that believed they were doing the "right thing"for our country. How we were misled,and the irony of that nightmare plays a huge part in my current thinking about going to war!Then if that wasn't enough, I saw and lived through the NIXON WATERGATE scandals,and the results that transpired because we Americans continue to choose poor leaders.Those past leaders like REAGAN,BUSH 1,are the cause of why we are where we are today.They made and supported dictators like SADDAM,and BIN-LADEN,because they had NO thought process,no critical thinking skills to think to the future and what this will mean to "WE THE PEOPLE".What they did was to promote their own self interests in the name of oil and in that purpose,thought would lead to the USA to globilization and we would remain the super power over all the world! BUSH 2 comes along and he's nothing more than a pawn,had NO credentials to support his Presidency, and surrounded himself by the powers that were of his Dad's administration,on the advice of BUSH 1! BUSH 2,Cheney,Rumsfeld,Schultz,Powell,and the rest of those thugs,have planned since the 80'S to continue in old ways to secure "THE PEOPLE'S" future,but more importantly their own futures,while leaving out "we the people"!The scam only gets worse ,as what upset their time table was CLINTON got elected not once but twice!So they had to nail Clinton on something "tangible" that would not sit well with the "moral majority" of "we the people".We know how that turned out,and because of so much atention to the impeachment,we lost attention to issues that needed paying attention to!911 brought them back to focus and now they had "a plan" that they thought would sell to "we the people" We now are in a different place and time and we need to get it right this time. I support JOHN KERRY as his activism in the 70's and throughout his Senate terms he does work for "the people".He has an uncanny ability to sift thouroughly through the issues and bring some sense to the table.He reaches across the great divide of the Senate and Congress,and he get's things done!He gleams in and of "DIPLOMACY"!In the past I have been in support of those candidates{like DEAN and Nabor}as they think to the left,and they bring to the table a critical thought process! BUT mainstream Americans are NOT crtical thinkers..they are followers!It will take experienced legislators {Like KERRY}, to win this election!His vision WILL bring along those "followers" as those that are concerned about their safety {and they darned should be},to the fold of the "thinkers".On the "world stage",JOHN KERRY
understands how necessary nad important it isfor AMERICA to step up and be a leader by example,rather than force.he has the respect of so many Republicans that are with him on a varity of issues to make our nation strong,and be what we need to be!.....OFF to work..have a nice day to all !Patti
08-01-2003 05:34 PM ET (US)
I have only a short time before I head off to work,so I'll get on with it.I'm an R.N.,I work in a rural area of the Olympic Peninsula in Wa, state. I grew up in the Cleveland area,lived the nightmare of the Vietnam war,losing many nurse friends,and watched as others close to me lost spouses,friends,brothers, neighbors, sisters,that believed they were doing the "right thing"for our country. How we were misled,and the irony of that nightmare plays a huge part in my current thinking about going to war!Then if that wasn't enough, I saw and lived through the NIXON WATERGATE scandals,and the results that transpired because we Americans continue to choose poor leaders.Those past leaders like REAGAN,BUSH 1,are the cause of why we are where we are today.They made and supported dictators like SADDAM,and BIN-LADEN,because they had NO thought process,no critical thinking skills to think to the future and what this will mean to "WE THE PEOPLE".What they did was to promote their own self interests in the name of oil and in that purpose,thought would lead to the USA to globilization and we would remain the super power over all the world! BUSH 2 comes along and he's nothing more than a pawn,had NO credentials to support his Presidency, and surrounded himself by the powers that were of his Dad's administration,on the advice of BUSH 1! BUSH 2,Cheney,Rumsfeld,Schultz,Powell,and the rest of those thugs,have planned since the 80'S to continue in old ways to secure "THE PEOPLE'S" future,but more importantly their own futures,while leaving out "we the people"!The scam only gets worse ,as what upset their time table was CLINTON got elected not once but twice!So they had to nail Clinton on something "tangible" that would not sit well with the "moral majority" of "we the people".We know how that turned out,and because of so much atention to the impeachment,we lost attention to issues that needed paying attention to!911 brought them back to focus and now they had "a plan" that they thought would sell to "we the people" We now are in a different place and time and we need to get it right this time. I support JOHN KERRY as his activism in the 70's and throughout his Senate terms he does work for "the people".He has an uncanny ability to sift thouroughly through the issues and bring some sense to the table.He reaches across the great divide of the Senate and Congress,and he get's things done!He gleams in and of "DIPLOMACY"!In the past I have been in support of those candidates{like DEAN and Nabor}as they think to the left,and they bring to the table a critical thought process! BUT mainstream Americans are NOT crtical thinkers..they are followers!It will take experienced legislators {Like KERRY}, to win this election!His vision WILL bring along those "followers" as those that are concerned about their safety {and they darned should be},to the fold of the "thinkers".On the "world stage",JOHN KERRY
understands how necessary nad important it isfor AMERICA to step up and be a leader by example,rather than force.he has the respect of so many Republicans that are with him on a varity of issues to make our nation strong,and be what we need to be!.....OFF to work..have a nice day to all !Patti
Patti Ferschke 129
08-01-2003 05:42 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the{http//} hint ,I'll do it !Anyway guys do your "homework "as best you can w/o http..I'm a computer illiterate,but you probably guessed that already!I only work 4 hours this pm so I'll jump back by later..PATTI
08-01-2003 05:42 PM ET (US)
Thanks for the{http//} hint ,I'll do it !Anyway guys do your "homework "as best you can w/o http..I'm a computer illiterate,but you probably guessed that already!I only work 4 hours this pm so I'll jump back by later..PATTI
Martin 130
08-01-2003 05:59 PM ET (US)
The Bush adminstration are all a bunch of crooks. They are going down. There is no way he can get relected. He’s trash. He is destroying this country. I don’t know much about the other candidates, but I’ll vote for anybody but Bush.
08-01-2003 05:59 PM ET (US)
The Bush adminstration are all a bunch of crooks. They are going down. There is no way he can get relected. He’s trash. He is destroying this country. I don’t know much about the other candidates, but I’ll vote for anybody but Bush.
Martin 131
08-01-2003 06:02 PM ET (US)
Ann this web site has really pick up you must have found some friends. Hello everybody. Let me intoduce myself. I'm Martin from Germany and U C I think Bush is Evil, like he calls other countries.
08-01-2003 06:02 PM ET (US)
Ann this web site has really pick up you must have found some friends. Hello everybody. Let me intoduce myself. I'm Martin from Germany and U C I think Bush is Evil, like he calls other countries.
Ann Stewart 132
08-01-2003 06:18 PM ET (US)
Hey Martin
Thanks for checking in with us.
You have been missed in the discussion lately and it is nice to see Tara and Jimmy join us.
And I want to say one thing to the group now, It is Ok to have misspelled words or bad typing. Don’t be shy if you want to post something because you think it may be misspelled or something. We all misspell words sometimes when we type fast, so don't worry about it. No one is going to make fun of you. The first thing you should understand is this to educate people on the issues where everybody can understand it at any reading level. It doesn’t matter how fast you type, or spell, or read. We are all a vote for these candidates or we would not be here discussing the issues. No body is going to get picked on for a mistype or misspelled word. So Patti don’t worry about it. We just want to be educated on the different issue of the candidates and it is good to be able to ask some one and get a easy to understand answer. So thank you to everybody for your comments and information. Here you have the opportunity to persuade people who are undecided to vote for or support your candidate. Who do you support and why? That is the biggest question to answer.
08-01-2003 06:18 PM ET (US)
Hey Martin
Thanks for checking in with us.
You have been missed in the discussion lately and it is nice to see Tara and Jimmy join us.
And I want to say one thing to the group now, It is Ok to have misspelled words or bad typing. Don’t be shy if you want to post something because you think it may be misspelled or something. We all misspell words sometimes when we type fast, so don't worry about it. No one is going to make fun of you. The first thing you should understand is this to educate people on the issues where everybody can understand it at any reading level. It doesn’t matter how fast you type, or spell, or read. We are all a vote for these candidates or we would not be here discussing the issues. No body is going to get picked on for a mistype or misspelled word. So Patti don’t worry about it. We just want to be educated on the different issue of the candidates and it is good to be able to ask some one and get a easy to understand answer. So thank you to everybody for your comments and information. Here you have the opportunity to persuade people who are undecided to vote for or support your candidate. Who do you support and why? That is the biggest question to answer.
Ann Stewart 133
08-01-2003 06:32 PM ET (US)
Today I will try to post information given to me on Gephardt, and Lieberman by Keith.
Keith has done a great job of finding information on the candidates in a easy to understand format. If you have not read the issues please read them.
Martin I know your German so if you have any problem with reading the English words let me know and I will try to help you. Well it will seem like I am gone for a while, but it is because I will be working to edit the site and I will not be here with the discussion group, but I will be back when I get done editing.
Thank you all for helping me build this site. Be sure to come back to see if your comments have been answered.
I really do not think Gephardt has a chance, but I have been wrong before, and other people think he still has a chance so I will post as much info on him as I can. I think the race is between Dean, Kerry and Lieberman.
08-01-2003 06:32 PM ET (US)
Today I will try to post information given to me on Gephardt, and Lieberman by Keith.
Keith has done a great job of finding information on the candidates in a easy to understand format. If you have not read the issues please read them.
Martin I know your German so if you have any problem with reading the English words let me know and I will try to help you. Well it will seem like I am gone for a while, but it is because I will be working to edit the site and I will not be here with the discussion group, but I will be back when I get done editing.
Thank you all for helping me build this site. Be sure to come back to see if your comments have been answered.
I really do not think Gephardt has a chance, but I have been wrong before, and other people think he still has a chance so I will post as much info on him as I can. I think the race is between Dean, Kerry and Lieberman.
Alison Brown 134
08-01-2003 07:11 PM ET (US)
Patti - it seems that many of the reasons you cite for supporting Kerry also apply to Howard Dean. Have you looked at the detailed position papers on his website, http://www.deanforamerica.com? As for his electability - he has already shown, this early in the race, that he has the fundraising skills and the grassroots support needed to win the primary. The only way this support will not carry over into the general election is if moderate democrats and the DLC continue to falsely claim that he is too liberal (which he is not).
08-01-2003 07:11 PM ET (US)
Patti - it seems that many of the reasons you cite for supporting Kerry also apply to Howard Dean. Have you looked at the detailed position papers on his website, http://www.deanforamerica.com? As for his electability - he has already shown, this early in the race, that he has the fundraising skills and the grassroots support needed to win the primary. The only way this support will not carry over into the general election is if moderate democrats and the DLC continue to falsely claim that he is too liberal (which he is not).
Alison Brown 135
08-01-2003 07:14 PM ET (US)
Jimmy - Ralph Nader has stated publicy that he will not run if Dean wins the primary. Without Nader, Greens are unlikely to pose much of a threat to the Democratic candidate. However, Nader probably WILL run if Kerry wins the nomination... Green votes made the difference in 2000, and they might in 2004 as well - keep that in mind when talking about "electability."
Dean has a sufficiently strong environmental record and agenda to win over many of the environmentalist voters who supported Nader in the last election.
08-01-2003 07:14 PM ET (US)
Jimmy - Ralph Nader has stated publicy that he will not run if Dean wins the primary. Without Nader, Greens are unlikely to pose much of a threat to the Democratic candidate. However, Nader probably WILL run if Kerry wins the nomination... Green votes made the difference in 2000, and they might in 2004 as well - keep that in mind when talking about "electability."
Dean has a sufficiently strong environmental record and agenda to win over many of the environmentalist voters who supported Nader in the last election.
sindhu kumar 136
08-01-2003 07:16 PM ET (US)
hi patti! it is nice to have a nurse join this discussion group. i would like to encourage people from all walks of life come here and give us their opinions. in addition to health care, medicare and medicaid reform, i would also like to see medical malpractice reform. and so far, i find john kerry, howard dean, and congressman gephardt addressing these issues as they not only affect the federal government, they affect every state's budget. over here, in new orleans, i have just heard that they are closing down 20 psychiatric beds, 9 operating rooms, an aids clinic and diabetes clinic only because the state does not have the money to keep them from operating at charity and university hospitals, which are the two primary teaching institutions for nursing and medical students. i feel so bad and sad for the people who are AIDS and diabetes patients who use these clinics and get all their medications prescribed and refilled. i dont know how bad the situation is where patti is at or how the state of washington deals with its budget deficits to where critical institutions that serve the indigent are closing down.
08-01-2003 07:16 PM ET (US)
hi patti! it is nice to have a nurse join this discussion group. i would like to encourage people from all walks of life come here and give us their opinions. in addition to health care, medicare and medicaid reform, i would also like to see medical malpractice reform. and so far, i find john kerry, howard dean, and congressman gephardt addressing these issues as they not only affect the federal government, they affect every state's budget. over here, in new orleans, i have just heard that they are closing down 20 psychiatric beds, 9 operating rooms, an aids clinic and diabetes clinic only because the state does not have the money to keep them from operating at charity and university hospitals, which are the two primary teaching institutions for nursing and medical students. i feel so bad and sad for the people who are AIDS and diabetes patients who use these clinics and get all their medications prescribed and refilled. i dont know how bad the situation is where patti is at or how the state of washington deals with its budget deficits to where critical institutions that serve the indigent are closing down.
Alison Brown 137
08-01-2003 07:18 PM ET (US)
Ann - check out the website http://www.takebackthemedia.com/onearmy.html
As someone with family members in the military, you will probably find it interesting. I was quite moved by it.
08-01-2003 07:18 PM ET (US)
Ann - check out the website http://www.takebackthemedia.com/onearmy.html
As someone with family members in the military, you will probably find it interesting. I was quite moved by it.
sindhu kumar 138
08-01-2003 07:18 PM ET (US)
jennifer: please feel free to post your comments. i like to read them all regardless of whether they are pro bush or registered democrats or independents.
08-01-2003 07:18 PM ET (US)
jennifer: please feel free to post your comments. i like to read them all regardless of whether they are pro bush or registered democrats or independents.
Ann Stewart 139
08-01-2003 08:00 PM ET (US)
Thanks for that info Alison I will check it out.
And Sindhu I think Jennifer went to the movies tonight. I don't know if she will post in or not. She thinks we are all Bush haters. I disagree. I hope to cover the main election in 2004 here too. So all stay tuned. Does anybody know any current polls on the canidates today?
08-01-2003 08:00 PM ET (US)
Thanks for that info Alison I will check it out.
And Sindhu I think Jennifer went to the movies tonight. I don't know if she will post in or not. She thinks we are all Bush haters. I disagree. I hope to cover the main election in 2004 here too. So all stay tuned. Does anybody know any current polls on the canidates today?
Ann Stewart 140
08-01-2003 08:34 PM ET (US)
Sindhu do you have anybody on the Democratic side you would vote for in the primaries yet? Are you still undecided? Are you voting in the primaries? I’m thinking about signing up and regressing for the democratic side just to vote in the primaries. I really don't consider myself a democrat though. I believe the people should have more control over the goverment than they do and money for that matter. I read in Time magazine where Dean told the Peace People not to fall in love with him. I wonder what he meant by that? Does that mean he's not going to try to pull the troops out of Iraq or what? I think I may skip on over to his blog and see if I can find out
08-01-2003 08:34 PM ET (US)
Sindhu do you have anybody on the Democratic side you would vote for in the primaries yet? Are you still undecided? Are you voting in the primaries? I’m thinking about signing up and regressing for the democratic side just to vote in the primaries. I really don't consider myself a democrat though. I believe the people should have more control over the goverment than they do and money for that matter. I read in Time magazine where Dean told the Peace People not to fall in love with him. I wonder what he meant by that? Does that mean he's not going to try to pull the troops out of Iraq or what? I think I may skip on over to his blog and see if I can find out
sindhu kumar 141
08-01-2003 08:53 PM ET (US)
it is a tie between kerry and dean. i would vote for dean because not only is he a physician, he also knows about medicare and medicaid as he and his wife are both physicians and they deal with patients who have medicare and medicaid coverage when they come for monthly visits to get their prescriptions ordered and refilled and how to balance the two entities.
08-01-2003 08:53 PM ET (US)
it is a tie between kerry and dean. i would vote for dean because not only is he a physician, he also knows about medicare and medicaid as he and his wife are both physicians and they deal with patients who have medicare and medicaid coverage when they come for monthly visits to get their prescriptions ordered and refilled and how to balance the two entities.
Ann Stewart 142
08-01-2003 09:20 PM ET (US)
Yeh
I figured with you being a future doc and all you Dean may be close to your heart. It is so hard to get differences between Dean and Kerry. They seem be a lot a like on the issues, but I guess the real test will be during the debates. If they debate well or not, I guess we will see.
Alison I just watched that video. That was great. I might make a mention of that on the front page. It was extremely emotional for me.
Thanks for finding that for me. Iloved the zombies music too.
08-01-2003 09:20 PM ET (US)
Yeh
I figured with you being a future doc and all you Dean may be close to your heart. It is so hard to get differences between Dean and Kerry. They seem be a lot a like on the issues, but I guess the real test will be during the debates. If they debate well or not, I guess we will see.
Alison I just watched that video. That was great. I might make a mention of that on the front page. It was extremely emotional for me.
Thanks for finding that for me. Iloved the zombies music too.
Jimmy 143
08-01-2003 09:35 PM ET (US)
Now i got my cap locks off. So is Howard Dean ahead in the race?
08-01-2003 09:35 PM ET (US)
Now i got my cap locks off. So is Howard Dean ahead in the race?
Ann Stewart 144
08-01-2003 09:43 PM ET (US)
Well this is just my opinion, but I think it is more between Kerry, Dean and Lieberman. I can’t promise they will win, but nobody can at this point. So who are you for Jimmy?
08-01-2003 09:43 PM ET (US)
Well this is just my opinion, but I think it is more between Kerry, Dean and Lieberman. I can’t promise they will win, but nobody can at this point. So who are you for Jimmy?
Vanessa 145
08-01-2003 09:47 PM ET (US)
I think Joe Lieberman would be nice. I have seen him as a speacker in the Gorbachev Foundation.
I like people who do something for the enviroment.
08-01-2003 09:47 PM ET (US)
I think Joe Lieberman would be nice. I have seen him as a speacker in the Gorbachev Foundation.
I like people who do something for the enviroment.
Patti Ferschke 146
08-02-2003 01:14 AM ET (US)
Hi guys,I'm back.From my persective I believe Leiberman and Gephart are "good guys",but they don't have the fire or vision to move us forward . I also don't believe we should just get hung up on one or a few values of one candidate. It's going to take a much more broad spectrum of vision to create the platform ,to beat BUSH. It's got to be a concept of ideas that appeal to all Americans and I think that is where KERRY shines,and one the "people" will buy.Dean always seems so angry and that concerns me as he'll tick off BUSH and Carl Rove to the nth. degree. Being the slick politicians they are,{and don't ever underestimate that advantage the press has given} them we would lose and will lose ! SO those that we may have swayed over to removing him, {BUSH} will now become wary,nary and we'll lose those swing votes to BUSH ! This rePUBLIC "of the people",detest the negativity of politicing.That is a proven fact from previous elections.Kerry has the ability to stay on the issues and not let it get personal as he's had to do this so often. He's not a "fireball" that sounds preachey,raises his voice,but continues in a civilized and dignified demeanor. DEAN works a crowd well,yet he's not always prepared to answer the tough questions and the "public" wants to be certain of what they will get this next go-round.For myself I don't want to take that risk,as too much is at stake here to lose ! It's like I tell my kids and their friends about this election,"sometimes you must sacrifice your ideals for the good of all,and sometimes what you have NOW is worse than the alternative"!Four more years of BUSH we will have
lost more lives,there will be NO peace plan, forget your jobs,let alone education,and we're well on our way to privitization in every sector of our lives! I don't want to risk that much for anyone who won't beat BUSH out. I spend hours on this computer working to see that doesn't happen. I'm a horrible typest, I'd much rather be playing with my new grand-baby,taking trips,or being with my friends and husband,or doing my many hobbies.As I evaluated what this election means{in terms of my quality of life,and outcomes},
if I want those things that mean value ,I'd better fight NOW to have them. If ever you want to meet the antithesis of ANN COULTER you have found that person in me !More later Patti
08-02-2003 01:14 AM ET (US)
Hi guys,I'm back.From my persective I believe Leiberman and Gephart are "good guys",but they don't have the fire or vision to move us forward . I also don't believe we should just get hung up on one or a few values of one candidate. It's going to take a much more broad spectrum of vision to create the platform ,to beat BUSH. It's got to be a concept of ideas that appeal to all Americans and I think that is where KERRY shines,and one the "people" will buy.Dean always seems so angry and that concerns me as he'll tick off BUSH and Carl Rove to the nth. degree. Being the slick politicians they are,{and don't ever underestimate that advantage the press has given} them we would lose and will lose ! SO those that we may have swayed over to removing him, {BUSH} will now become wary,nary and we'll lose those swing votes to BUSH ! This rePUBLIC "of the people",detest the negativity of politicing.That is a proven fact from previous elections.Kerry has the ability to stay on the issues and not let it get personal as he's had to do this so often. He's not a "fireball" that sounds preachey,raises his voice,but continues in a civilized and dignified demeanor. DEAN works a crowd well,yet he's not always prepared to answer the tough questions and the "public" wants to be certain of what they will get this next go-round.For myself I don't want to take that risk,as too much is at stake here to lose ! It's like I tell my kids and their friends about this election,"sometimes you must sacrifice your ideals for the good of all,and sometimes what you have NOW is worse than the alternative"!Four more years of BUSH we will have
lost more lives,there will be NO peace plan, forget your jobs,let alone education,and we're well on our way to privitization in every sector of our lives! I don't want to risk that much for anyone who won't beat BUSH out. I spend hours on this computer working to see that doesn't happen. I'm a horrible typest, I'd much rather be playing with my new grand-baby,taking trips,or being with my friends and husband,or doing my many hobbies.As I evaluated what this election means{in terms of my quality of life,and outcomes},
if I want those things that mean value ,I'd better fight NOW to have them. If ever you want to meet the antithesis of ANN COULTER you have found that person in me !More later Patti
Ann Stewart 147
08-02-2003 01:17 AM ET (US)
Wow Patti
You rule I hope John Kerry is thankful for all you are doing for him. I am almost about to sign off. It is almost 12:30 am in Nashville. What time is it where you live?
08-02-2003 01:17 AM ET (US)
Wow Patti
You rule I hope John Kerry is thankful for all you are doing for him. I am almost about to sign off. It is almost 12:30 am in Nashville. What time is it where you live?
Ann Stewart 148
08-02-2003 01:24 AM ET (US)
Dear Patti
I like what you have just said, but my eyes are sleepy and I must rest them now. Feel free to post all night long and I promise I will get back to you in the morning. These are issue I care about very deeply and many of the people in this group do too and some are still undecided about who to support so you have shown a big mark in this on line debate.
Thankyou so much.
Ann Stewart
08-02-2003 01:24 AM ET (US)
Dear Patti
I like what you have just said, but my eyes are sleepy and I must rest them now. Feel free to post all night long and I promise I will get back to you in the morning. These are issue I care about very deeply and many of the people in this group do too and some are still undecided about who to support so you have shown a big mark in this on line debate.
Thankyou so much.
Ann Stewart
Patti Ferschke 149
08-02-2003 01:33 AM ET (US)
If you'd like to see KERRY in action,write the KERRY Team on his site. There's a video available, and they would send you one,make copies and distribute that video {if you see what I mean} about his abilities. But more importantly is to promote actively,why we need a regime change,and back that candidate.That may sound counter-productive {if you d
don't support KERRY},but the idea is to get BUSH a BUSH out!
This is going to be a brutal election folks,so we'd better get the best we got........IN !There's a lot of negative stuff out there on KERRY,but there's a lot out there on all of them. Propaganda rules,and there's no worse but the suff BUSH and Co. hands out on a day to day basis. Let's ban together and get that candidate front and forward,let's make a pledge to one another we can and will do better for All Americans.Let's allow that candidate that commands respect ,speak for the one's that can't speak for themselves...that person IS JOHN KERRY !..PATTI
08-02-2003 01:33 AM ET (US)
If you'd like to see KERRY in action,write the KERRY Team on his site. There's a video available, and they would send you one,make copies and distribute that video {if you see what I mean} about his abilities. But more importantly is to promote actively,why we need a regime change,and back that candidate.That may sound counter-productive {if you d
don't support KERRY},but the idea is to get BUSH a BUSH out!
This is going to be a brutal election folks,so we'd better get the best we got........IN !There's a lot of negative stuff out there on KERRY,but there's a lot out there on all of them. Propaganda rules,and there's no worse but the suff BUSH and Co. hands out on a day to day basis. Let's ban together and get that candidate front and forward,let's make a pledge to one another we can and will do better for All Americans.Let's allow that candidate that commands respect ,speak for the one's that can't speak for themselves...that person IS JOHN KERRY !..PATTI
Ann Stewart 150
08-02-2003 01:56 AM ET (US)
Hey Patti
Do you have a email address where I can email you? If you don't want to give it out my email is 4stew@prodigy.net I would like to ask you something important.
08-02-2003 01:56 AM ET (US)
Hey Patti
Do you have a email address where I can email you? If you don't want to give it out my email is 4stew@prodigy.net I would like to ask you something important.
Keith Brekhus 151
08-02-2003 02:11 AM ET (US)
The Democratic race right now is essentially a four way race with a lot of undecideds out there. To see the latest Zogby poll check here...http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=724
some important things to note:
While Dean, Lieberman and Gephardt are tied for first, Lieberman's support has dropped since March while Dean's has tripled.
When you factor in the margin of error Kerry can be considered tied for first too.
Dean and Kerry have favorable to unfavorable ratios of 5:1 while Gephardt and Lieberman only have favorable/unfavorable ratios of 3:1. Historically this kind of pattern usually means that undecideds will break more heavily for Dean or Kerry rather than Gephardt or Lieberman.
Dean's name recognition is still only 39% which means he has lots of room to move up.
While I believe Dean, Kerry, Lieberman and Gephardt all have the potential to secure the Democratic nomination, the momentum lies with the Dean campaign. However I ceratinly wouldn't write off any of the others: The Gallup Poll still shows Lieberman leading nationally (in that poll he is at 21%), the unions are endorsing Gephardt and he has a big lead in the Iowa poll (the first state we will here from in January), and Kerry has the most money in the bank and the backing of many in the party establishment. Things could get very interesting.
08-02-2003 02:11 AM ET (US)
The Democratic race right now is essentially a four way race with a lot of undecideds out there. To see the latest Zogby poll check here...http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=724
some important things to note:
While Dean, Lieberman and Gephardt are tied for first, Lieberman's support has dropped since March while Dean's has tripled.
When you factor in the margin of error Kerry can be considered tied for first too.
Dean and Kerry have favorable to unfavorable ratios of 5:1 while Gephardt and Lieberman only have favorable/unfavorable ratios of 3:1. Historically this kind of pattern usually means that undecideds will break more heavily for Dean or Kerry rather than Gephardt or Lieberman.
Dean's name recognition is still only 39% which means he has lots of room to move up.
While I believe Dean, Kerry, Lieberman and Gephardt all have the potential to secure the Democratic nomination, the momentum lies with the Dean campaign. However I ceratinly wouldn't write off any of the others: The Gallup Poll still shows Lieberman leading nationally (in that poll he is at 21%), the unions are endorsing Gephardt and he has a big lead in the Iowa poll (the first state we will here from in January), and Kerry has the most money in the bank and the backing of many in the party establishment. Things could get very interesting.
Ann Stewart 152
08-02-2003 02:22 AM ET (US)
Gee
Thanks Keith for that info. I will try to post something about it tomorrow. I had to edit a few other sites and did not get to do as much editing on the election site as I wanted to. I guess I have a hard time believing in Richard Gephardt as winning, I have heard so many people who don't want him to be President, but I'm not writing him off either. He's still in the race.
Thanks Keith
What state are you from if you don't mind me asking?
08-02-2003 02:22 AM ET (US)
Gee
Thanks Keith for that info. I will try to post something about it tomorrow. I had to edit a few other sites and did not get to do as much editing on the election site as I wanted to. I guess I have a hard time believing in Richard Gephardt as winning, I have heard so many people who don't want him to be President, but I'm not writing him off either. He's still in the race.
Thanks Keith
What state are you from if you don't mind me asking?
Keith Brekhus 153
08-02-2003 02:42 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-02-2003 02:42 AM
I'm from Missouri and while I don't support Missouri's own candidate, Dick Gephardt, I can think of a winning scenario for him...
How Gephardt can win the nomination.
Ok since I live in Missouri I'll show a little love for Gephardt in this debate. Frankly I don't care for Gephardt or Lieberman much and I support Dean (with Kerry as my second choice), but I do think Gephardt has a better chance at being nominated than people think and here is why:
First of all, Iowa which borders Missouri, will have Caucuses first before any other state has a Caucus or primary. Right now polls show of likely Caucus attendees Gephardt has a solid lead 32-19% over Dean. If Gephardt wins big in Iowa he will get huge media attention and roll into the New Hampshire primary with momentum. However, if Dean upsets Gephardt in his backyard he is through and the vultures circle in January and Dick bows out.
Lets assume Gephardt wins strong in Iowa. If that happens Dean and Kerry slug it out for first in New Hampshire. Whoever finishes second between Dean and Kerry in NH will be labeled a loser by the media and his campaign will be crippled. However, if Gephardt finishes third ahead of Lieberman then it is spun as a moral victory for Gephardt and a loss for Lieberman.
Its all about expectations...between Dean and Kerry, the winner in New Hampshire moves on and the loser writes his political obituary for campaign 2004.
Once either Dean or Kerry drops out of the race, it becomes a contest between the centrist (Gephardt or Lieberman) and progressive/liberal (Kerry or Dean) wing of the party. Now in many ways Kerry and Dean are more centrist than Gephardt, but the media typically spins Northeasterners as liberals and Midwesterners as moderates so the labels will probably stick.
If Gephardt beats Lieberman in South Carolina then Lieberman drops out and it becomes a battle between Gephardt and the Dean/Kerry survivor. If that happens Gephardt could do well enough in the South and the Midwest to get the nomination.
In addition, Gephardt has the endorsement of the Teamsters and several other labor unions--the unions are sometimes pretty successful at getting out the vote for their guy.
I've sent letters to Iowans in support of Dean and I believe he can stun America by knocking Gephardt out in round 1 in Iowa. However, if Gephardt wins big in Iowa, finishes top three in New Hampshire, and beats Lieberamn in South Carolina, then he is poised to vie for the nomination down to the wire with either Dean or Kerry.
08-02-2003 02:42 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-02-2003 02:42 AM
I'm from Missouri and while I don't support Missouri's own candidate, Dick Gephardt, I can think of a winning scenario for him...
How Gephardt can win the nomination.
Ok since I live in Missouri I'll show a little love for Gephardt in this debate. Frankly I don't care for Gephardt or Lieberman much and I support Dean (with Kerry as my second choice), but I do think Gephardt has a better chance at being nominated than people think and here is why:
First of all, Iowa which borders Missouri, will have Caucuses first before any other state has a Caucus or primary. Right now polls show of likely Caucus attendees Gephardt has a solid lead 32-19% over Dean. If Gephardt wins big in Iowa he will get huge media attention and roll into the New Hampshire primary with momentum. However, if Dean upsets Gephardt in his backyard he is through and the vultures circle in January and Dick bows out.
Lets assume Gephardt wins strong in Iowa. If that happens Dean and Kerry slug it out for first in New Hampshire. Whoever finishes second between Dean and Kerry in NH will be labeled a loser by the media and his campaign will be crippled. However, if Gephardt finishes third ahead of Lieberman then it is spun as a moral victory for Gephardt and a loss for Lieberman.
Its all about expectations...between Dean and Kerry, the winner in New Hampshire moves on and the loser writes his political obituary for campaign 2004.
Once either Dean or Kerry drops out of the race, it becomes a contest between the centrist (Gephardt or Lieberman) and progressive/liberal (Kerry or Dean) wing of the party. Now in many ways Kerry and Dean are more centrist than Gephardt, but the media typically spins Northeasterners as liberals and Midwesterners as moderates so the labels will probably stick.
If Gephardt beats Lieberman in South Carolina then Lieberman drops out and it becomes a battle between Gephardt and the Dean/Kerry survivor. If that happens Gephardt could do well enough in the South and the Midwest to get the nomination.
In addition, Gephardt has the endorsement of the Teamsters and several other labor unions--the unions are sometimes pretty successful at getting out the vote for their guy.
I've sent letters to Iowans in support of Dean and I believe he can stun America by knocking Gephardt out in round 1 in Iowa. However, if Gephardt wins big in Iowa, finishes top three in New Hampshire, and beats Lieberamn in South Carolina, then he is poised to vie for the nomination down to the wire with either Dean or Kerry.
Patti Ferschke 154
08-02-2003 03:46 AM ET (US)
I am enormously overwhelmed at a poll I just viewed that say 65% of all Americans think "W" will win in 04! Why in the world will we as a society give creedence
to such idiocy? Watch out folks you might just get what you wish for ! The press and BUSH think we Americans are so gullible,unsophisticated ,ignorant idiots! We will prove them wrong again in this next election. Go to..http://votewithavengeance.com .....click on the candidates and there's a good bio on KERRY. If anyone watched Chris Matthews tonite {FRI}"Hard Ball" I loved the DEMS new female organizer,or whatever she is {I was too busy writing},she was good ! She had a great take on DEAN and said: {and I quote}:"the Dean team has become the most responsible members of the DEM Party" I have to agree with her on that,but she too believes if it "means giving the vote to KERRY to win,they will". In turn I think she meant,that DEAN won't beat BUSH. We will just have to see how all this plays out.I'm going to write the KERRY Team as I think it will help if the KERRY site can at least post where we can keep up with the Senator ie. programs/news media etc! I can hardly wait for the debates! I like KERRY's stance that going to war is nothing more than failed diplomacy..BUSH has failed us badly on that..we will pay dearly!..NITE to all,see you tomorrow .....Patti
08-02-2003 03:46 AM ET (US)
I am enormously overwhelmed at a poll I just viewed that say 65% of all Americans think "W" will win in 04! Why in the world will we as a society give creedence
to such idiocy? Watch out folks you might just get what you wish for ! The press and BUSH think we Americans are so gullible,unsophisticated ,ignorant idiots! We will prove them wrong again in this next election. Go to..http://votewithavengeance.com .....click on the candidates and there's a good bio on KERRY. If anyone watched Chris Matthews tonite {FRI}"Hard Ball" I loved the DEMS new female organizer,or whatever she is {I was too busy writing},she was good ! She had a great take on DEAN and said: {and I quote}:"the Dean team has become the most responsible members of the DEM Party" I have to agree with her on that,but she too believes if it "means giving the vote to KERRY to win,they will". In turn I think she meant,that DEAN won't beat BUSH. We will just have to see how all this plays out.I'm going to write the KERRY Team as I think it will help if the KERRY site can at least post where we can keep up with the Senator ie. programs/news media etc! I can hardly wait for the debates! I like KERRY's stance that going to war is nothing more than failed diplomacy..BUSH has failed us badly on that..we will pay dearly!..NITE to all,see you tomorrow .....Patti
Michael Bohannon 155
08-02-2003 04:21 AM ET (US)
Patti I agree with you that although many Democrats like Dean, I don't really think he has a chance to win enough swing votes to tip the scale in his favor. I may be dead wrong on this and perceptions can change, but for the most part I think that Dean is perceived as being a little too far to the left. I myself am officially a swing vote, neither a Democrat nor a Republican. I like Dean, but if the Dems want to win the election I think it best to go with a candidate that is more moderate. That may seem like selling out, but what’s the alternative: FOUR MORE YEARS OF BUSH!!!! How lovely!
08-02-2003 04:21 AM ET (US)
Patti I agree with you that although many Democrats like Dean, I don't really think he has a chance to win enough swing votes to tip the scale in his favor. I may be dead wrong on this and perceptions can change, but for the most part I think that Dean is perceived as being a little too far to the left. I myself am officially a swing vote, neither a Democrat nor a Republican. I like Dean, but if the Dems want to win the election I think it best to go with a candidate that is more moderate. That may seem like selling out, but what’s the alternative: FOUR MORE YEARS OF BUSH!!!! How lovely!
Joe Mathews 156
08-02-2003 06:32 AM ET (US)
Howard Dean's got a ways to go to get the "liberal monkey"
off his back. He was a centrist Vermont governor (I live
in Vermont) with wide bi-partisan backing. No candidate
has this nomination close to being locked up, however.
I spent 5 days in Massachusetts and New Hampshire earlier
this week. No Kerry or Dean signs in Massachusetts, but
New Hampshire is another story. Large crowds and positive
media coverage and this is six months before the election!
Local contacts and "gut" feeling suggest to me that Kerry's
support in New Hampshire is flat or dropping with those
changing their minds now in the undecided column. Once
the country figures out that Dean isn't the flaming liberal
that Karl Rove hopes he is all bets are off. He's as
tenacious as a bulldog and can't be labeled. The fund
raising results show broad appeal even amongst Republicans
like myself.
08-02-2003 06:32 AM ET (US)
Howard Dean's got a ways to go to get the "liberal monkey"
off his back. He was a centrist Vermont governor (I live
in Vermont) with wide bi-partisan backing. No candidate
has this nomination close to being locked up, however.
I spent 5 days in Massachusetts and New Hampshire earlier
this week. No Kerry or Dean signs in Massachusetts, but
New Hampshire is another story. Large crowds and positive
media coverage and this is six months before the election!
Local contacts and "gut" feeling suggest to me that Kerry's
support in New Hampshire is flat or dropping with those
changing their minds now in the undecided column. Once
the country figures out that Dean isn't the flaming liberal
that Karl Rove hopes he is all bets are off. He's as
tenacious as a bulldog and can't be labeled. The fund
raising results show broad appeal even amongst Republicans
like myself.
Patti Ferschke 157
08-02-2003 11:36 AM ET (US)
Please go to..http://www.independentsforkerry.org} it's why we need to back KERRY from the independents point of view.If you really want to see a work in progress on KERRY'S thought process read this entire article...http://www.americanwindsurfer.com/mag/back...5.html}........what we really want is a "bush out"....more chat later,Patti
08-02-2003 11:36 AM ET (US)
Please go to..http://www.independentsforkerry.org} it's why we need to back KERRY from the independents point of view.If you really want to see a work in progress on KERRY'S thought process read this entire article...http://www.americanwindsurfer.com/mag/back...5.html}........what we really want is a "bush out"....more chat later,Patti
Ann Stewart 158
08-02-2003 12:51 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-02-2003 12:53 PM
Dear ladies and gentlemen
I will be out today for a while for a family event. When I return I will try to get a update or edit on how the debate is going. Thank you so much for all your information. The statements you gave have built this site and it will be added on to by the statements and facts you provide.
Thank you so much for the education on the candidates and the 2004 election. Until this discussion group started I didn’t know that much about them.
I don’t really know who to support yet, but like Chris I have narrowed it down to 3 candidates, Kerry, Dean, and Leiberman. I think they have the best shot of defeating Bush.
I have ran off copies of this debate’s comments and posted it at may job and many of the employee’s I work with have read it, like Tara and Brad. I have also posted it at the library and local supermarkets here in Nashville. So those if you who know of people who are undecided about who to vote for in the election, tell them about the debate here, or rally your friends and supporters for comments. This debate is a place where people can come to post questions and get answers and information on the election. Get information on the candidates All comments and opinions are welcome and it’s good to know who is supporting whom and why.
So thank you again for participating.
I feel like I am making new on line friends.
You have all been great.
Your educational comments are a blessing to this election.
08-02-2003 12:51 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-02-2003 12:53 PM
Dear ladies and gentlemen
I will be out today for a while for a family event. When I return I will try to get a update or edit on how the debate is going. Thank you so much for all your information. The statements you gave have built this site and it will be added on to by the statements and facts you provide.
Thank you so much for the education on the candidates and the 2004 election. Until this discussion group started I didn’t know that much about them.
I don’t really know who to support yet, but like Chris I have narrowed it down to 3 candidates, Kerry, Dean, and Leiberman. I think they have the best shot of defeating Bush.
I have ran off copies of this debate’s comments and posted it at may job and many of the employee’s I work with have read it, like Tara and Brad. I have also posted it at the library and local supermarkets here in Nashville. So those if you who know of people who are undecided about who to vote for in the election, tell them about the debate here, or rally your friends and supporters for comments. This debate is a place where people can come to post questions and get answers and information on the election. Get information on the candidates All comments and opinions are welcome and it’s good to know who is supporting whom and why.
So thank you again for participating.
I feel like I am making new on line friends.
You have all been great.
Your educational comments are a blessing to this election.
Ann Stewart 159
08-02-2003 12:58 PM ET (US)
Patti has brought this to may attendtion. I thought I would post it for all to read:
Kerry camp split on issue of Dean
Tougher approach winning out, but some have doubts
By Glen Johnson, Globe Staff, 8/2/2003
ASHINGTON -- Howard Dean's strong fund-raising and recent rise in public opinion polls have created a divide within Senator John F. Kerry's presidential campaign, between aides who want to attack the former Vermont governor to stem the tide and others who believe his wave of support will crest on its own.
The views of the more aggressive group, represented by campaign manager Jim Jordan, were reflected this week when Kerry criticized any rival for the Democratic nomination who favors repealing all of the tax cuts enacted since President Bush took office in 2001. At least three of the nine candidates fit that billing, but aides circulated the Massachusetts senator's prepared text before a speech in Dover, N.H., and made it clear that Dean was the intended target.
''Real Democrats don't walk away from the middle class,'' Kerry declared Wednesday night. ''They don't take away a tax credit for families struggling to raise their children or bring back a tax penalty for married couples who are starting out or penalize teachers and waitresses by raising taxes on the middle class.''
A more reserved group of advisers is typified by David McKean, chief of staff in Kerry's Senate office. He is among those who believe that Dean's current political celebrity will fade with closer media scrutiny; they foresee an inevitable misstep for his campaign, and they argue that engaging Dean only helps him.
Both camps are united in believing that Kerry has built a strong campaign organization, and has successfully husbanded resources for an eventual showdown with Dean and the other Democrats, according to interviews with members of each group and other aides who spoke on the condition of anonymity.
The senator is largely focused on executing a game plan that calls for a mid-September public declaration of his candidacy, a round of policy speeches and endorsements aimed at differentiating himself from his fellow Democrats and President Bush, and his first purchase of television time to air campaign commercials in Iowa, New Hampshire, and other early-voting states, several aides said.
Dean's political strength was evident last month when he more than doubled his support in a poll of likely voters in California, the state with the most electoral votes. He and Kerry were both in the mid-teens, steady performance for Kerry but an improvement of 8 percentage points for Dean from a similar survey in April.
At the same time, Dean raised more than any of his Democratic rivals during the second three months of the year, taking in $7.6 million for the period ending June 30. Kerry raised $5.9 million, which placed him second for the second consecutive quarter, but Dean's finish was a marked improvement over the $2.6 million he raised during the first three months of the year.
Dean's rise has prompted the internal debate within the Kerry camp, but Jordan refused to discuss it. ''I have no comment whatsoever on internal campaign conversations,'' he said in an interview.
Jordan professed respect for Dean, saying, ''He's a serious candidate, as we suspected all along.'' One campaign aide said Kerry's criticism on Wednesday followed reports from Iowa that Dean was planning to attack Kerry.
Throughout the week, though, Jordan displayed the sharper tack in dealing with Dean.
One flashpoint was the governor's criticism that Kerry and other Democrats in Congress did not sufficiently question whether there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq before approving a war resolution.
''Governor Dean is simply reinventing his own position and that of others, and that's the rankest kind of politics,'' Jordan told The New York Times. ''He was an unemployed doctor with no responsibilities, and it was easy to sit there and take political potshots from the outside.''
The New York Post also quoted Jordan as saying of Dean, ''Ultimately, voters are going to decide a small-town physician from a small and atypical state is probably not qualified to lead this nation in a dangerous world.''
McKean said in an interview there was ''nothing terribly controversial'' about what Jordan said, and he played down any perception of a rift.
''I think there is clearly a healthy debate in the campaign about issues, but Jim and the entire campaign are executing a strategy, and John is very comfortable with how the campaign is operating,'' McKean said.
Reflecting his more laissez-faire approach, McKean added: ''How many times have we seen people make a surge like this? [Senator John] Edwards did it after the first-quarter fund-raising, [Representative Richard A.] Gephardt did it after he announced his health care plan, and Dean is doing it after the second-quarter fund-raising. The only constant in this race has been John Kerry.''
Tricia Enright, Dean's communications director, said the Kerry campaign's debate reflects a failure to comprehend the roots of Dean's success.
''What's happening is they are struggling with understanding what the Dean campaign means,'' she said. ''What does it mean to have grass-roots momentum? What does it mean to be mobilizing people across the country? And they just haven't figured out that it's real.''
Jordan disagreed.
''We're building a strong, durable organization. We have more money in the bank that any Democratic candidate has had at this point in the race,'' he said. ''But there has never been any question this race would be close, hard -- and settled somewhere in the snow.''
08-02-2003 12:58 PM ET (US)
Patti has brought this to may attendtion. I thought I would post it for all to read:
Kerry camp split on issue of Dean
Tougher approach winning out, but some have doubts
By Glen Johnson, Globe Staff, 8/2/2003
ASHINGTON -- Howard Dean's strong fund-raising and recent rise in public opinion polls have created a divide within Senator John F. Kerry's presidential campaign, between aides who want to attack the former Vermont governor to stem the tide and others who believe his wave of support will crest on its own.
The views of the more aggressive group, represented by campaign manager Jim Jordan, were reflected this week when Kerry criticized any rival for the Democratic nomination who favors repealing all of the tax cuts enacted since President Bush took office in 2001. At least three of the nine candidates fit that billing, but aides circulated the Massachusetts senator's prepared text before a speech in Dover, N.H., and made it clear that Dean was the intended target.
''Real Democrats don't walk away from the middle class,'' Kerry declared Wednesday night. ''They don't take away a tax credit for families struggling to raise their children or bring back a tax penalty for married couples who are starting out or penalize teachers and waitresses by raising taxes on the middle class.''
A more reserved group of advisers is typified by David McKean, chief of staff in Kerry's Senate office. He is among those who believe that Dean's current political celebrity will fade with closer media scrutiny; they foresee an inevitable misstep for his campaign, and they argue that engaging Dean only helps him.
Both camps are united in believing that Kerry has built a strong campaign organization, and has successfully husbanded resources for an eventual showdown with Dean and the other Democrats, according to interviews with members of each group and other aides who spoke on the condition of anonymity.
The senator is largely focused on executing a game plan that calls for a mid-September public declaration of his candidacy, a round of policy speeches and endorsements aimed at differentiating himself from his fellow Democrats and President Bush, and his first purchase of television time to air campaign commercials in Iowa, New Hampshire, and other early-voting states, several aides said.
Dean's political strength was evident last month when he more than doubled his support in a poll of likely voters in California, the state with the most electoral votes. He and Kerry were both in the mid-teens, steady performance for Kerry but an improvement of 8 percentage points for Dean from a similar survey in April.
At the same time, Dean raised more than any of his Democratic rivals during the second three months of the year, taking in $7.6 million for the period ending June 30. Kerry raised $5.9 million, which placed him second for the second consecutive quarter, but Dean's finish was a marked improvement over the $2.6 million he raised during the first three months of the year.
Dean's rise has prompted the internal debate within the Kerry camp, but Jordan refused to discuss it. ''I have no comment whatsoever on internal campaign conversations,'' he said in an interview.
Jordan professed respect for Dean, saying, ''He's a serious candidate, as we suspected all along.'' One campaign aide said Kerry's criticism on Wednesday followed reports from Iowa that Dean was planning to attack Kerry.
Throughout the week, though, Jordan displayed the sharper tack in dealing with Dean.
One flashpoint was the governor's criticism that Kerry and other Democrats in Congress did not sufficiently question whether there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq before approving a war resolution.
''Governor Dean is simply reinventing his own position and that of others, and that's the rankest kind of politics,'' Jordan told The New York Times. ''He was an unemployed doctor with no responsibilities, and it was easy to sit there and take political potshots from the outside.''
The New York Post also quoted Jordan as saying of Dean, ''Ultimately, voters are going to decide a small-town physician from a small and atypical state is probably not qualified to lead this nation in a dangerous world.''
McKean said in an interview there was ''nothing terribly controversial'' about what Jordan said, and he played down any perception of a rift.
''I think there is clearly a healthy debate in the campaign about issues, but Jim and the entire campaign are executing a strategy, and John is very comfortable with how the campaign is operating,'' McKean said.
Reflecting his more laissez-faire approach, McKean added: ''How many times have we seen people make a surge like this? [Senator John] Edwards did it after the first-quarter fund-raising, [Representative Richard A.] Gephardt did it after he announced his health care plan, and Dean is doing it after the second-quarter fund-raising. The only constant in this race has been John Kerry.''
Tricia Enright, Dean's communications director, said the Kerry campaign's debate reflects a failure to comprehend the roots of Dean's success.
''What's happening is they are struggling with understanding what the Dean campaign means,'' she said. ''What does it mean to have grass-roots momentum? What does it mean to be mobilizing people across the country? And they just haven't figured out that it's real.''
Jordan disagreed.
''We're building a strong, durable organization. We have more money in the bank that any Democratic candidate has had at this point in the race,'' he said. ''But there has never been any question this race would be close, hard -- and settled somewhere in the snow.''
Joe Mathews 160
08-02-2003 01:35 PM ET (US)
John Kerry's a great Senator from a great state, but I just
can't fathom why he is any different from all the other
Washington "insiders" running. It's also helpful to keep
in mind the past 25 years of history regarding the
candidates who were successful in their run for the White
House.
Since Gerald Ford was defeated by Governor Jimmy Carter,
only George H.W. Bush has won a Presidential election and
did not have previous experience as governor. Carter,
Reagan, Clinton and Bush 2 all "ran" their states. Of the
Democratic candidates, only Howard Dean has this experience.
It makes sense as Congressmen tend to "gray" the issues to
avoid offending anyone. This Republican's tired of it from
Republicans or Democrats. I never voted for Howard Dean
for Governor here in Vermont because of his signature on
Act 60, our statewide school property tax bill. I'm fully
supporting him in his bid for a number of reasons detailed
below.
He doesn't mince words, tell you what you want to hear or
"backtrack" after he signed a bill. He had the guts to sign
our civil unions bill after the Vermont Supreme Court put
this hot potato in the legislature's lap. Both extremes
went into "outer space". Some wanted the term "marriage"
inserted in the bill, the extreme right wing warned of
destruction, violence and mayhem. Thankfully, none of this
happened. Dean had to sound judgement to sign a bill that
was in keeping with the Court's mandate, not "grandstand"
the issue and to take the heat afterwards. It's called
guts and leadership and is far too rare in politics today!
That will win the White House. Votes for the Iraq war
without any questioning, trying to steal the issues from
George Bush with the same policies and "pandering" to every-
one is a receipe for defeat. The D.L.C. and all those
whiners had better stop the attacks because Dean's the only
one who has any forward momentum right now. It will come
down to Kerry, Dean and possibly Lieberman. How long it
will take for a frontrunner to emerge is anyone's guess.
I say take the plunge and support the guy who's got the
message right. That guy is Howard Dean!
08-02-2003 01:35 PM ET (US)
John Kerry's a great Senator from a great state, but I just
can't fathom why he is any different from all the other
Washington "insiders" running. It's also helpful to keep
in mind the past 25 years of history regarding the
candidates who were successful in their run for the White
House.
Since Gerald Ford was defeated by Governor Jimmy Carter,
only George H.W. Bush has won a Presidential election and
did not have previous experience as governor. Carter,
Reagan, Clinton and Bush 2 all "ran" their states. Of the
Democratic candidates, only Howard Dean has this experience.
It makes sense as Congressmen tend to "gray" the issues to
avoid offending anyone. This Republican's tired of it from
Republicans or Democrats. I never voted for Howard Dean
for Governor here in Vermont because of his signature on
Act 60, our statewide school property tax bill. I'm fully
supporting him in his bid for a number of reasons detailed
below.
He doesn't mince words, tell you what you want to hear or
"backtrack" after he signed a bill. He had the guts to sign
our civil unions bill after the Vermont Supreme Court put
this hot potato in the legislature's lap. Both extremes
went into "outer space". Some wanted the term "marriage"
inserted in the bill, the extreme right wing warned of
destruction, violence and mayhem. Thankfully, none of this
happened. Dean had to sound judgement to sign a bill that
was in keeping with the Court's mandate, not "grandstand"
the issue and to take the heat afterwards. It's called
guts and leadership and is far too rare in politics today!
That will win the White House. Votes for the Iraq war
without any questioning, trying to steal the issues from
George Bush with the same policies and "pandering" to every-
one is a receipe for defeat. The D.L.C. and all those
whiners had better stop the attacks because Dean's the only
one who has any forward momentum right now. It will come
down to Kerry, Dean and possibly Lieberman. How long it
will take for a frontrunner to emerge is anyone's guess.
I say take the plunge and support the guy who's got the
message right. That guy is Howard Dean!
Patti Ferschke 161
08-02-2003 02:46 PM ET (US)
JOE,Kerry is very different from the "other" insiders in this race! He's front and forward on all the issues,and more importantly, he understands what it means to be a leader in today's world! It's my belief DEAN IS running a great campaign,but he's also too angry and will, before long , turn off many of his own supporters.We all know negative campaigning doesn't sit well with mainstream Americans. I'm angry too,that we've allowed ourselves to come to where we are today,but that won't fix the problems. KERRY has the ability to "engage" a dialogue like no other candidate out there,and certainly will go toe to toe with BUSH. DEAN blunders badly on the issues when confronted by the press,and if the goal is to oust BUSH,we need to back a person that can beat BUSH. The public want's to hear and be clear,if we get BUSH out, what do they get in return! KERRY is right on the issues,and it's my belief they want a person from the "inside",that's worked on those issues!Certainly these two candidates will go toe to toe,ARE the front and forward leaders,but the larger question looms,who can best beat BUSH..that person IS>>>>>>> KERRY!DEAN has only managed a state of under a million people,while KERRY has managed issues that affect millions of people ,and we americans are better off for those fights that KERRY has already won!
08-02-2003 02:46 PM ET (US)
JOE,Kerry is very different from the "other" insiders in this race! He's front and forward on all the issues,and more importantly, he understands what it means to be a leader in today's world! It's my belief DEAN IS running a great campaign,but he's also too angry and will, before long , turn off many of his own supporters.We all know negative campaigning doesn't sit well with mainstream Americans. I'm angry too,that we've allowed ourselves to come to where we are today,but that won't fix the problems. KERRY has the ability to "engage" a dialogue like no other candidate out there,and certainly will go toe to toe with BUSH. DEAN blunders badly on the issues when confronted by the press,and if the goal is to oust BUSH,we need to back a person that can beat BUSH. The public want's to hear and be clear,if we get BUSH out, what do they get in return! KERRY is right on the issues,and it's my belief they want a person from the "inside",that's worked on those issues!Certainly these two candidates will go toe to toe,ARE the front and forward leaders,but the larger question looms,who can best beat BUSH..that person IS>>>>>>> KERRY!DEAN has only managed a state of under a million people,while KERRY has managed issues that affect millions of people ,and we americans are better off for those fights that KERRY has already won!
Keith Brekhus 162
08-02-2003 03:34 PM ET (US)
A few comments on remarks I hear about Dean:
1) He is too angry.
Honestly the Democrats played nice in 2002 and tried not to say anything bad about Bush or the Republicans for fear of looking unpatriotic. The Republicans smeared them with attack ads about being soft on terrorism and weak on patriotism. Decorated Vietnam-Vet and triple amputee Max Cleland a Democrat, lost his Senate seat to Saxby Chambliss, a Republican who never served in the military but who ran ads accusing Cleland of being unpatriotic, even though Cleland supported Bush's war and the Patriot Act.
In my state, Missouri, Jean Carnahan, a Democrat wrapped herself in the flag and supported Bush's war and yet she still lost to Jim Talent a Republican who attacked her patriotism.
The sad truth is while Americans are turned off by neagtive ads, the ads work. Remember the Willie Horton ads and the ads of pollution in Boston Harbor in 1988? They were misleading and downright mean, but they destroyed Michael Dukakis...they worked.
Americans have a right to be angry about the war, about the loss of our civil liberties, and about services being cut, jobs being lost and the rich getting a tax break that will saddle us with huge deficits to be paid in the future by our children.
The reason Dean is gaining so much support is because a lot of Americans--Democrats, Independents, Greens, Libertarians and yes even Republicans are angry and Dean is the one major candidate who shares their outrage and gives them hope and empowers them to get involved to take their country back.
2) He is not an insider like Kerry
Frankly from an electability standpoint this is a plus for Dean. Bush ran as a Washington outsider from Texas. Clinton ran as a populist outsider--The governor of a small state. Ronald Reagan and Jimmy Carter ran as Beltway outsiders. Voters tend to prefer Governor's and ex-Governors with executive experience over Senators. Insiders who come from the Senate are usually viewed as bland stuffed shirts (see--Al Gore, Bob Dole, and Walter Mondale for example).
3) Dean isn't polished and he won't do well in debates-- the funny thing about this is that candidates who are well-polished, well-versed and intricately familar with legislative detail don't generally connect well with voters.
The rub on George W. Bush after all was that he was kind of dumb and Gore would eat him up in the debates. However, Bush's simple talk was in the end more appealing than Gore's knowledge and polish.
Dukakis and Mondale were both supposed to be bright well-versed politicians, but Mondale got creamed by Reagan (not a rocket scientist but affable) and Dukakis' legalistic answers to questions like "what would you do if your wife was raped ?" made him look like a damn robot instead of a warm human being.
An inspiring candidate is far more important to win than one who is technically knowledgeable and proficient.
4) Dean is a doctor-
If the Kerry campaign in the primaries, or the Bush campaign later tries to use this against him it will backfire big time. What is wrong with being a physician? Must every president start out as a lawyer or a career politician before running for higher office? I don't see how being a medical doctor and a five term Governor makes Dean underqualified to be President.
Frankly, it might just take a doctor to fix the illnesses that have been inflicted upon this country by Bush and his allies in Congress.
08-02-2003 03:34 PM ET (US)
A few comments on remarks I hear about Dean:
1) He is too angry.
Honestly the Democrats played nice in 2002 and tried not to say anything bad about Bush or the Republicans for fear of looking unpatriotic. The Republicans smeared them with attack ads about being soft on terrorism and weak on patriotism. Decorated Vietnam-Vet and triple amputee Max Cleland a Democrat, lost his Senate seat to Saxby Chambliss, a Republican who never served in the military but who ran ads accusing Cleland of being unpatriotic, even though Cleland supported Bush's war and the Patriot Act.
In my state, Missouri, Jean Carnahan, a Democrat wrapped herself in the flag and supported Bush's war and yet she still lost to Jim Talent a Republican who attacked her patriotism.
The sad truth is while Americans are turned off by neagtive ads, the ads work. Remember the Willie Horton ads and the ads of pollution in Boston Harbor in 1988? They were misleading and downright mean, but they destroyed Michael Dukakis...they worked.
Americans have a right to be angry about the war, about the loss of our civil liberties, and about services being cut, jobs being lost and the rich getting a tax break that will saddle us with huge deficits to be paid in the future by our children.
The reason Dean is gaining so much support is because a lot of Americans--Democrats, Independents, Greens, Libertarians and yes even Republicans are angry and Dean is the one major candidate who shares their outrage and gives them hope and empowers them to get involved to take their country back.
2) He is not an insider like Kerry
Frankly from an electability standpoint this is a plus for Dean. Bush ran as a Washington outsider from Texas. Clinton ran as a populist outsider--The governor of a small state. Ronald Reagan and Jimmy Carter ran as Beltway outsiders. Voters tend to prefer Governor's and ex-Governors with executive experience over Senators. Insiders who come from the Senate are usually viewed as bland stuffed shirts (see--Al Gore, Bob Dole, and Walter Mondale for example).
3) Dean isn't polished and he won't do well in debates-- the funny thing about this is that candidates who are well-polished, well-versed and intricately familar with legislative detail don't generally connect well with voters.
The rub on George W. Bush after all was that he was kind of dumb and Gore would eat him up in the debates. However, Bush's simple talk was in the end more appealing than Gore's knowledge and polish.
Dukakis and Mondale were both supposed to be bright well-versed politicians, but Mondale got creamed by Reagan (not a rocket scientist but affable) and Dukakis' legalistic answers to questions like "what would you do if your wife was raped ?" made him look like a damn robot instead of a warm human being.
An inspiring candidate is far more important to win than one who is technically knowledgeable and proficient.
4) Dean is a doctor-
If the Kerry campaign in the primaries, or the Bush campaign later tries to use this against him it will backfire big time. What is wrong with being a physician? Must every president start out as a lawyer or a career politician before running for higher office? I don't see how being a medical doctor and a five term Governor makes Dean underqualified to be President.
Frankly, it might just take a doctor to fix the illnesses that have been inflicted upon this country by Bush and his allies in Congress.
Tuesday, August 26, 2003
Charles in Montana 163
08-02-2003 03:53 PM ET (US)
Mr. Kerry is a fine man by anyones standard, However so is Howard Dean. I'am a 30 year Repulican who never dreamed things would go so far right that they are exercising fascism. I've been behind Dean for many months now and things just keep rolling to the good. Dean supporters asked for a challenge on the Dean blog and raised 508 thousand dollars, twice our set goal. We will now attack Mr. Bush in his home state with T.V. adds. We all chipped in about 50 dollars each and Dean campaign manager Joe Trippi has put it to excellent use. I have to stay with Dean as he rolls up his sleeves and takes it to Bush. My goal is not to see a Democrat in the Whitehouse, just a good and decent man. Most of us Deaniacs have no interest in attacking other Democratic canidates, the target is the neocon establishment run by Cheney and figureheaded by Bush. I hope you will join me in this effort to rid our country of threat to our people and the world. No matter who you chose to support don't lose sight of the real enemy.
08-02-2003 03:53 PM ET (US)
Mr. Kerry is a fine man by anyones standard, However so is Howard Dean. I'am a 30 year Repulican who never dreamed things would go so far right that they are exercising fascism. I've been behind Dean for many months now and things just keep rolling to the good. Dean supporters asked for a challenge on the Dean blog and raised 508 thousand dollars, twice our set goal. We will now attack Mr. Bush in his home state with T.V. adds. We all chipped in about 50 dollars each and Dean campaign manager Joe Trippi has put it to excellent use. I have to stay with Dean as he rolls up his sleeves and takes it to Bush. My goal is not to see a Democrat in the Whitehouse, just a good and decent man. Most of us Deaniacs have no interest in attacking other Democratic canidates, the target is the neocon establishment run by Cheney and figureheaded by Bush. I hope you will join me in this effort to rid our country of threat to our people and the world. No matter who you chose to support don't lose sight of the real enemy.
Lysa 164
08-02-2003 04:03 PM ET (US)
I'll admit I'm not one of your mainstream types as I don't have a television ( Waste of time in my opinion among other things ) so my view is probably going to be a little less skewed than those that are bombarded 24/7 by mind numbing telly rays.
I realize television plays a big role, but if it is going by words and records Dean has Kerry beat hands down in terms of viability and trustworthiness.
Gephardt is leading the pack of candidates whom also hold office as being absent a Whopping 90 percent of house votes as of July 28. Sen. John Kerry’ is at 54 percent absentee rate.
Maybe it's lost on some folks but campaigning while holding an Elected office isn't exactly inspiring. To me, it says they care more about the title than the job. And it reflects whether rightly or wrongly on how they will do when in office. It's a risk any Elected candidate takes when they decide to campaign and not a healthy one if they want to be viewed with respect.
Dean's numbers are increasing daily, Hourly if I may be so bold. A big reason for that is because he not only gives the impression of trustworthiness, but he proves it. The American population wants someone they can trust, someone they can believe in. Bush has shown he isn't trustworthy.
Further more I was interested in Kerry way back, but had some questions and doubts. I like his wife Far more than him. She strikes me as a lot more real than he. I muddled along uninspired by Kerry. The one day I stumbled upon an article about Dean. My immediate reaction was WOW. Skeptically I checked him out, waited, looked around and determined my initial reaction was right. More over each day it's reinforced.
08-02-2003 04:03 PM ET (US)
I'll admit I'm not one of your mainstream types as I don't have a television ( Waste of time in my opinion among other things ) so my view is probably going to be a little less skewed than those that are bombarded 24/7 by mind numbing telly rays.
I realize television plays a big role, but if it is going by words and records Dean has Kerry beat hands down in terms of viability and trustworthiness.
Gephardt is leading the pack of candidates whom also hold office as being absent a Whopping 90 percent of house votes as of July 28. Sen. John Kerry’ is at 54 percent absentee rate.
Maybe it's lost on some folks but campaigning while holding an Elected office isn't exactly inspiring. To me, it says they care more about the title than the job. And it reflects whether rightly or wrongly on how they will do when in office. It's a risk any Elected candidate takes when they decide to campaign and not a healthy one if they want to be viewed with respect.
Dean's numbers are increasing daily, Hourly if I may be so bold. A big reason for that is because he not only gives the impression of trustworthiness, but he proves it. The American population wants someone they can trust, someone they can believe in. Bush has shown he isn't trustworthy.
Further more I was interested in Kerry way back, but had some questions and doubts. I like his wife Far more than him. She strikes me as a lot more real than he. I muddled along uninspired by Kerry. The one day I stumbled upon an article about Dean. My immediate reaction was WOW. Skeptically I checked him out, waited, looked around and determined my initial reaction was right. More over each day it's reinforced.
Alison Brown 165
08-02-2003 04:39 PM ET (US)
VERY well put, Keith. I think Dean's experience as a physician make him especially credible when he talks about health care and reproductive rights. It also makes possible all sorts of great slogans, like the one you had at the end of you message: It will take a doctor to heal this country!
08-02-2003 04:39 PM ET (US)
VERY well put, Keith. I think Dean's experience as a physician make him especially credible when he talks about health care and reproductive rights. It also makes possible all sorts of great slogans, like the one you had at the end of you message: It will take a doctor to heal this country!
Alison Brown 166
08-02-2003 04:45 PM ET (US)
Joe - are the same Joe from Vermont who was quoted in todays US News article? Very good article, check it out: http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/11dean.htm
You and Charles are two of many Republicans I have heard coming out in support of Dean. How can anyone claim that he is too liberal and will scare off moderate voters when he already has the support of people who voted for Bush last time? Karl Rove doesn't know what he's getting himself into when he says he wants Dean.
I just want to say that I think people like you can have the greatest impact on Dean's campaign. I've been spreading the word about him, but as a student at NYU I'm mostly surrounded by liberal students (and my liberal family), who would almost certainly vote for him in the general election. You have the ability to bring his message to Republicans, which is hugely important!
08-02-2003 04:45 PM ET (US)
Joe - are the same Joe from Vermont who was quoted in todays US News article? Very good article, check it out: http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/11dean.htm
You and Charles are two of many Republicans I have heard coming out in support of Dean. How can anyone claim that he is too liberal and will scare off moderate voters when he already has the support of people who voted for Bush last time? Karl Rove doesn't know what he's getting himself into when he says he wants Dean.
I just want to say that I think people like you can have the greatest impact on Dean's campaign. I've been spreading the word about him, but as a student at NYU I'm mostly surrounded by liberal students (and my liberal family), who would almost certainly vote for him in the general election. You have the ability to bring his message to Republicans, which is hugely important!
Keith Brekhus 167
08-02-2003 05:30 PM ET (US)
I love the idea of Dean running TV ads in the heart of Texas. Hopefully Bush will get to see the ad while he is vacationing at his ranch. It is precisely this kind of brash, bold risk-taking that makes Dean so much more appealing than the other Democrats.
For too long, Democrats have lost races by playing it safe and going through the usual dull array of pandering to a few specific consticuencies, attending a few 500 plate fundraisers with Democratic big wigs, and then come election day they wonder why the average Jane or Joe doesn't bother to vote or pulls the lever for the other side.
Rather than pulling a Lieberman or Gephardt and saying "well I am just like Bush on the war, and just about like Bush on the economy and well I am a swell guy just like the president so pick me--Bush Lite"...Dean says "pick me, I am not like Bush!"...what a radical idea, running AGAINST the incumbent and saying what you will do differently for a better America instead of saying "I'm kind of like George and I want to be President too and my prescription drug plan for Seniors is a wee bit better than his and thats why you should pick me even though I voted for his war" etc.
Ok, I might be exaggerating my caricature of Lieberman and Gephardt, but yeah, I am tired of the Democrats rolling over and playing dead. Its about time somebody showed enough chutzpah to take the gloves off and aim for Bush's belly from the start...pardon the boxing analogy but we don't need another split decision like Bush versus Gore.
Dean has come out swinging so Karl Rove you better get out the smelling salts because your boy Dubya will be on the ropes before he knew what hit him. All us crazy Americans that you forgot to pay attention to are going to help Dean deliver a knockout punch to Bush's presidential career next November!
Ok that was cathartic...sorry, I had to vent a little :-).
08-02-2003 05:30 PM ET (US)
I love the idea of Dean running TV ads in the heart of Texas. Hopefully Bush will get to see the ad while he is vacationing at his ranch. It is precisely this kind of brash, bold risk-taking that makes Dean so much more appealing than the other Democrats.
For too long, Democrats have lost races by playing it safe and going through the usual dull array of pandering to a few specific consticuencies, attending a few 500 plate fundraisers with Democratic big wigs, and then come election day they wonder why the average Jane or Joe doesn't bother to vote or pulls the lever for the other side.
Rather than pulling a Lieberman or Gephardt and saying "well I am just like Bush on the war, and just about like Bush on the economy and well I am a swell guy just like the president so pick me--Bush Lite"...Dean says "pick me, I am not like Bush!"...what a radical idea, running AGAINST the incumbent and saying what you will do differently for a better America instead of saying "I'm kind of like George and I want to be President too and my prescription drug plan for Seniors is a wee bit better than his and thats why you should pick me even though I voted for his war" etc.
Ok, I might be exaggerating my caricature of Lieberman and Gephardt, but yeah, I am tired of the Democrats rolling over and playing dead. Its about time somebody showed enough chutzpah to take the gloves off and aim for Bush's belly from the start...pardon the boxing analogy but we don't need another split decision like Bush versus Gore.
Dean has come out swinging so Karl Rove you better get out the smelling salts because your boy Dubya will be on the ropes before he knew what hit him. All us crazy Americans that you forgot to pay attention to are going to help Dean deliver a knockout punch to Bush's presidential career next November!
Ok that was cathartic...sorry, I had to vent a little :-).
Patti Ferschke 168
08-02-2003 06:12 PM ET (US)
Look you guys,I have many Republican friends that detest what BUSH has done to this country. However,these very same folks will vote for BUSH again,if DEAN is the candidate! I don't want to take that chance and LOSE this election,it's much too important to do that! Running a great campaign is one thing ,and no argument,DEAN has done that. Standing up to BUSH thugs and Carl Rove will be something else, and getting those "swing" votes is the key to winning. Go,JOHN Go......in my opinion, DEAN only attracts those who oppose BUSH..the issues are much more broad than the one's DEAN proposes !He has NO foreign policy experience, and that's what the voters will be watching!..PATTI
08-02-2003 06:12 PM ET (US)
Look you guys,I have many Republican friends that detest what BUSH has done to this country. However,these very same folks will vote for BUSH again,if DEAN is the candidate! I don't want to take that chance and LOSE this election,it's much too important to do that! Running a great campaign is one thing ,and no argument,DEAN has done that. Standing up to BUSH thugs and Carl Rove will be something else, and getting those "swing" votes is the key to winning. Go,JOHN Go......in my opinion, DEAN only attracts those who oppose BUSH..the issues are much more broad than the one's DEAN proposes !He has NO foreign policy experience, and that's what the voters will be watching!..PATTI
Wayne in Missouri 169
08-02-2003 06:44 PM ET (US)
Dean can address his lack of foreign policy experience the same way Bush did in 2000, by choosing a Vice President who has a reputation in foreign policy.
I think General Wesley Clark from Arkansas would make a good choice for Dean in that regard and I also think many voters who support our military but are unsure about Bush's Iraq war and it's lack of an endgame plan would lineup behind a ticket with Clark on it.
I think Dean/Clark is a potential winning ticket.
08-02-2003 06:44 PM ET (US)
Dean can address his lack of foreign policy experience the same way Bush did in 2000, by choosing a Vice President who has a reputation in foreign policy.
I think General Wesley Clark from Arkansas would make a good choice for Dean in that regard and I also think many voters who support our military but are unsure about Bush's Iraq war and it's lack of an endgame plan would lineup behind a ticket with Clark on it.
I think Dean/Clark is a potential winning ticket.
Alison Brown 170
08-02-2003 06:48 PM ET (US)
Patti,
You say "Dean only attracts those who oppose Bush." True. This is a contest - people who like Bush will vote Bush. People who don't like Bush will vote for the Democrat. How is this a bad thing? By criticizing Bush's mistakes, Dean is increasing the number of people who are aware of those mistakes, and who are less likely to vote Bush in 2004.
On the issue of foreign policy: Bush had no foreign policy experience. Neither did Clinton. Or any other governor who has become president. What governors do have, however, is experience running a state. Historically, candidates who have the experience of being a governor are more successful than those who come from the Senate.
Dean has travelled extensively and met with many foreign leaders. Can you say the same thing of Bush?
08-02-2003 06:48 PM ET (US)
Patti,
You say "Dean only attracts those who oppose Bush." True. This is a contest - people who like Bush will vote Bush. People who don't like Bush will vote for the Democrat. How is this a bad thing? By criticizing Bush's mistakes, Dean is increasing the number of people who are aware of those mistakes, and who are less likely to vote Bush in 2004.
On the issue of foreign policy: Bush had no foreign policy experience. Neither did Clinton. Or any other governor who has become president. What governors do have, however, is experience running a state. Historically, candidates who have the experience of being a governor are more successful than those who come from the Senate.
Dean has travelled extensively and met with many foreign leaders. Can you say the same thing of Bush?
Lysa 171
08-02-2003 06:51 PM ET (US)
Patti,
I admire your tenacity and loyalty to Kerry, but I can't agree with you. My dad is a republican. This could have been written about my dad, the two are so alike! There is a school of republican thought that believes in less government less taxes. Granted I don't think less taxes will happen with Dean, probably more, but the economics of it will be sound rather than Bush's frivolous fat cat driven idiotic tax schemes.
I can't agree with you that Kerry has a better chance of beating Dean. Kerry comes across as a 100% DEMOCRAT. Dean is getting the swing votes because he comes across as 100% HOWARD DEAN.
The republicans you talk about not liking bush and voting for bush even so are fanatics. A fanatic won't listen to reason. But the percentage of fanatical republicans versus those that are republican and conservative with minds is small. Those with minds capable of thinking Far outweigh the blind fanatics.
People are sick and tired of arrogant politicians that play the political game wining and dining fat cats, making promises they don't and can't keep. Howard Dean isn't like that. Anyone can go check it out Open Secrets, who's donating to whom
08-02-2003 06:51 PM ET (US)
Patti,
I admire your tenacity and loyalty to Kerry, but I can't agree with you. My dad is a republican. This could have been written about my dad, the two are so alike! There is a school of republican thought that believes in less government less taxes. Granted I don't think less taxes will happen with Dean, probably more, but the economics of it will be sound rather than Bush's frivolous fat cat driven idiotic tax schemes.
I can't agree with you that Kerry has a better chance of beating Dean. Kerry comes across as a 100% DEMOCRAT. Dean is getting the swing votes because he comes across as 100% HOWARD DEAN.
The republicans you talk about not liking bush and voting for bush even so are fanatics. A fanatic won't listen to reason. But the percentage of fanatical republicans versus those that are republican and conservative with minds is small. Those with minds capable of thinking Far outweigh the blind fanatics.
People are sick and tired of arrogant politicians that play the political game wining and dining fat cats, making promises they don't and can't keep. Howard Dean isn't like that. Anyone can go check it out Open Secrets, who's donating to whom
Ann Stewart 172
08-02-2003 06:52 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-02-2003 06:54 PM
Hello ladies and Gentalmen
I am glad to see 2 new online user names and welcome Lysa,Wayne in Missouri, and Charles in Montana. Alison, Kieth and Patti it is good to have you back. I will get busy and post your comments today. I have a question. A friend of mine at work stated the power of the Internet is reaching the middle class voters. How many of you agree with the idea that the Internet is becoming a big tool in elections?
And if that is true, do you think better on line campaigning is really what the candidates may need to win the election?
08-02-2003 06:52 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-02-2003 06:54 PM
Hello ladies and Gentalmen
I am glad to see 2 new online user names and welcome Lysa,Wayne in Missouri, and Charles in Montana. Alison, Kieth and Patti it is good to have you back. I will get busy and post your comments today. I have a question. A friend of mine at work stated the power of the Internet is reaching the middle class voters. How many of you agree with the idea that the Internet is becoming a big tool in elections?
And if that is true, do you think better on line campaigning is really what the candidates may need to win the election?
Lysa 173
08-02-2003 07:14 PM ET (US)
Hello Ann,
Thank you for the invite and the welcome.
I definitely agree that the internet is becoming a big tool in elections. I also agree that it does reach more of the middle class in general, but I can think of lots of people that use the internet that aren't by any means middle class ( Unfortunately. )
Online campaigning will be what Radio and Television was when it first arrived on the scene. JFK ( the original ) used Television very successfully when tv was just starting to make inroads to the average american. More and more people are getting connected and the internet is fast becoming a part of life for millions upon millions upon millions....:)
08-02-2003 07:14 PM ET (US)
Hello Ann,
Thank you for the invite and the welcome.
I definitely agree that the internet is becoming a big tool in elections. I also agree that it does reach more of the middle class in general, but I can think of lots of people that use the internet that aren't by any means middle class ( Unfortunately. )
Online campaigning will be what Radio and Television was when it first arrived on the scene. JFK ( the original ) used Television very successfully when tv was just starting to make inroads to the average american. More and more people are getting connected and the internet is fast becoming a part of life for millions upon millions upon millions....:)
Wayne in Missouri 174
08-02-2003 07:17 PM ET (US)
Thank you Ann! This is a great site and I'm glad I found it.
I think where the internet is making the biggest difference right now is in the ability to raise campaign finances through ordinary people rather than lobbyists.
The traditional method of raising money is to give a speech at a $2,000 a plate fundraiser attended by lobbyists and wealthy influentials. Cheney raised $300,000 at a single dinner this way recently. Most of us here, I'm guessing, can't afford a $2,000 dinner to get the presidential candidate's ear ;-).
But the Dean campaign has changed fundraising by successfully using the internet and a blog to get many small donations from ordinary people. He outraised Cheney's $2,000 a plate dinner on the same day with internet donations averaging around 50 dollars from several thousand people, while eating a $3 turkey sandwich at his computer.
The other campaigns are starting to see the grassroots power of internet fundraising and while they aren't likely to master it the way Dean's campaign manager and web staff have in this campaign, I think regardless of who wins the nomination this time, future campaigns will rely increasingly on the internet for fundraising and keeping supporters involved in the campaigns.
I think the effect on voting itself is probably less significant for some groups and segments of the population than others. Some people still get most of their news and politics from television and use the web primarily for email and don't surf for news, information much. But that is probably changing too.
08-02-2003 07:17 PM ET (US)
Thank you Ann! This is a great site and I'm glad I found it.
I think where the internet is making the biggest difference right now is in the ability to raise campaign finances through ordinary people rather than lobbyists.
The traditional method of raising money is to give a speech at a $2,000 a plate fundraiser attended by lobbyists and wealthy influentials. Cheney raised $300,000 at a single dinner this way recently. Most of us here, I'm guessing, can't afford a $2,000 dinner to get the presidential candidate's ear ;-).
But the Dean campaign has changed fundraising by successfully using the internet and a blog to get many small donations from ordinary people. He outraised Cheney's $2,000 a plate dinner on the same day with internet donations averaging around 50 dollars from several thousand people, while eating a $3 turkey sandwich at his computer.
The other campaigns are starting to see the grassroots power of internet fundraising and while they aren't likely to master it the way Dean's campaign manager and web staff have in this campaign, I think regardless of who wins the nomination this time, future campaigns will rely increasingly on the internet for fundraising and keeping supporters involved in the campaigns.
I think the effect on voting itself is probably less significant for some groups and segments of the population than others. Some people still get most of their news and politics from television and use the web primarily for email and don't surf for news, information much. But that is probably changing too.
Michael Bohannon 175
08-02-2003 07:19 PM ET (US)
I saw someone on CNN- I don't remember who, but I think they made a good point. He said that the security from terrorism has replaced the economy as the most important issue, and that Americans might forgive Bush for the economy if he can make them feel safe. I think that is a good point to consider. If 9/11 would have never happened then Bush would certainly be thrown out on his rear due to the bad economy, but now he has another issue to revitalize his campaign. I don't mean to sound insensitive to the victims, nonetheless this is a relevant issue and whether the Democrats can allay the American people's fear from another attack may be the overriding issue. Unfortunately, it may also be the issue that gets Bush back in office. In the end, its security vs. the economy and which the American people believe to be more important.
08-02-2003 07:19 PM ET (US)
I saw someone on CNN- I don't remember who, but I think they made a good point. He said that the security from terrorism has replaced the economy as the most important issue, and that Americans might forgive Bush for the economy if he can make them feel safe. I think that is a good point to consider. If 9/11 would have never happened then Bush would certainly be thrown out on his rear due to the bad economy, but now he has another issue to revitalize his campaign. I don't mean to sound insensitive to the victims, nonetheless this is a relevant issue and whether the Democrats can allay the American people's fear from another attack may be the overriding issue. Unfortunately, it may also be the issue that gets Bush back in office. In the end, its security vs. the economy and which the American people believe to be more important.
Patti Ferschke 176
08-02-2003 07:21 PM ET (US)
Ann, It would be my guess that inter-net campaigning is the way of the future.I really like the discussions that happen here,and Ican't wait for the debates.I wouldn't want KERRY to turn into a DEAN,I like him as is, and I do agree he needs some fire in that campaign!
08-02-2003 07:21 PM ET (US)
Ann, It would be my guess that inter-net campaigning is the way of the future.I really like the discussions that happen here,and Ican't wait for the debates.I wouldn't want KERRY to turn into a DEAN,I like him as is, and I do agree he needs some fire in that campaign!
Ann Stewart 177
08-02-2003 08:55 PM ET (US)
Dear Supporters
I have noticed it has been easy to rally Dean's supporters for positive comments. I have tried to rally Kerry's supporters and some of the other candidates as well for kind comments for Kerry’s comment page, plus I know when we started this debate there was many people here who did not know a lot about the candidates. We were a group of friends on the Internet that enjoyed, talking about the candidates and Bush, but did not know where a lot of the Democratic candidates stood on the issues. Main stream media is saying Dean is gaining in popularity. A lot of Kerry’s supporters don’t think that is a long term gain for Dean to get elected in the Primaries. Lieberman’s supporters did not show today. But I will say this again to all supporters of all candidates, tell your friends, your family, your loved ones or just people you talk to on the Internet about this discussion debate. Especially if they want to know more about the candidates. This is a great place to ask questions and get answers from people who support all different sides, so they can make a well informed decision on where they stand and who they will support.
08-02-2003 08:55 PM ET (US)
Dear Supporters
I have noticed it has been easy to rally Dean's supporters for positive comments. I have tried to rally Kerry's supporters and some of the other candidates as well for kind comments for Kerry’s comment page, plus I know when we started this debate there was many people here who did not know a lot about the candidates. We were a group of friends on the Internet that enjoyed, talking about the candidates and Bush, but did not know where a lot of the Democratic candidates stood on the issues. Main stream media is saying Dean is gaining in popularity. A lot of Kerry’s supporters don’t think that is a long term gain for Dean to get elected in the Primaries. Lieberman’s supporters did not show today. But I will say this again to all supporters of all candidates, tell your friends, your family, your loved ones or just people you talk to on the Internet about this discussion debate. Especially if they want to know more about the candidates. This is a great place to ask questions and get answers from people who support all different sides, so they can make a well informed decision on where they stand and who they will support.
Charles in Montana 178
08-02-2003 09:20 PM ET (US)
Thank you Ann for your welcome. Is the internet a good tool to power politics? Yes, It is what brought me to this site and many others. I can't find the truth on Fox or other corporate news. I don't get opinions like the opinions of the members of this list. Instead of slanted pundits singing either Left or Right the internet allows us to hear many voices. Many voices=Democracy. Micheal, On the subject of security I have a few opinions and you may well be right that people are in fear and would vote away there freedom and economic futures for security. The administration uses that fear to their advantage every day. Its use isn't limited to the Bush Cabel. When I was growing up there was a commie behind every tree. We were taught in school what to do in the event of a atomic attack.(put your head between your legs and kiss your butt goodbye was the in joke) The Russians are coming. The Red Chinese are Russian and American concerns. We had to stop the expansion of Communism in S.E. Asia. We really have a problem Ism , like Fascism, Nazism, Communism, and now we have Terrorism. Oh and I shouldn't forget our Imperialism. Well, to the point. Benjamin Franklin said something to the affect that if your are willing to sacrifice liberty for securitty you deserve niether. Hopefully People will see throught the fog of fear and save liberty. Governments use fear- orange alert- red alert. It is all bull. If attacked Americans will respond. The rest is a rouge. P.S. Iraq was as much of a threat as Humpty Dumpty.
08-02-2003 09:20 PM ET (US)
Thank you Ann for your welcome. Is the internet a good tool to power politics? Yes, It is what brought me to this site and many others. I can't find the truth on Fox or other corporate news. I don't get opinions like the opinions of the members of this list. Instead of slanted pundits singing either Left or Right the internet allows us to hear many voices. Many voices=Democracy. Micheal, On the subject of security I have a few opinions and you may well be right that people are in fear and would vote away there freedom and economic futures for security. The administration uses that fear to their advantage every day. Its use isn't limited to the Bush Cabel. When I was growing up there was a commie behind every tree. We were taught in school what to do in the event of a atomic attack.(put your head between your legs and kiss your butt goodbye was the in joke) The Russians are coming. The Red Chinese are Russian and American concerns. We had to stop the expansion of Communism in S.E. Asia. We really have a problem Ism , like Fascism, Nazism, Communism, and now we have Terrorism. Oh and I shouldn't forget our Imperialism. Well, to the point. Benjamin Franklin said something to the affect that if your are willing to sacrifice liberty for securitty you deserve niether. Hopefully People will see throught the fog of fear and save liberty. Governments use fear- orange alert- red alert. It is all bull. If attacked Americans will respond. The rest is a rouge. P.S. Iraq was as much of a threat as Humpty Dumpty.
Ann Stewart 179
08-02-2003 09:51 PM ET (US)
Yes Charles in Montana you are correct. I enjoy watching CNN when I have the time, but you always hear they have to be objective, and I hate that. Some times I want some bodies opinion, but sometimes even the polls they publicize on TV never seem to be the same or correct with the real world. I think main stream media has a hard time getting the story right and they must report stories off of each other too, because almost every story that’s on CNN is on NBC, Fox, ABC and all the stations and remember I said “almost”. Where can you go to get news you never heard before, or specific news you want to hear? I think that’s the power if the Internet. You can search for the news you want. The question of it’s accuracy is always going to be an issue, so don’t believe everything you read on the Internet, but bad accuracy can be the same on TV.
I needed this discussion group for my own education, and it has been that to me an education on the election. I feel like when go to vote now I will know who and why I am voting for that person.
Thank you all so much
You have been great teachers
08-02-2003 09:51 PM ET (US)
Yes Charles in Montana you are correct. I enjoy watching CNN when I have the time, but you always hear they have to be objective, and I hate that. Some times I want some bodies opinion, but sometimes even the polls they publicize on TV never seem to be the same or correct with the real world. I think main stream media has a hard time getting the story right and they must report stories off of each other too, because almost every story that’s on CNN is on NBC, Fox, ABC and all the stations and remember I said “almost”. Where can you go to get news you never heard before, or specific news you want to hear? I think that’s the power if the Internet. You can search for the news you want. The question of it’s accuracy is always going to be an issue, so don’t believe everything you read on the Internet, but bad accuracy can be the same on TV.
I needed this discussion group for my own education, and it has been that to me an education on the election. I feel like when go to vote now I will know who and why I am voting for that person.
Thank you all so much
You have been great teachers
sindhu kumar 180
08-02-2003 10:13 PM ET (US)
someone in here brought up a very good idea of general wesley clark for the post of vice president. what do you guys think of general wesley clark as president or vice president.
08-02-2003 10:13 PM ET (US)
someone in here brought up a very good idea of general wesley clark for the post of vice president. what do you guys think of general wesley clark as president or vice president.
sindhu kumar 181
08-02-2003 10:16 PM ET (US)
as a matter of fact, it is true patti, that the internet is becoming the way of campaigning for the future. senator john mccain of arizona, when he was running for president, used the internet to campaign because it got people to register to vote online.
08-02-2003 10:16 PM ET (US)
as a matter of fact, it is true patti, that the internet is becoming the way of campaigning for the future. senator john mccain of arizona, when he was running for president, used the internet to campaign because it got people to register to vote online.
Ann Stewart 182
08-02-2003 11:11 PM ET (US)
I am so glad you are here Sindhu. How is your medical blog coming? Who is General Wesley Clark? I have not heard of him yet. Tell me what you know and is any of Candidates running thinking about running with him? Has any of the democratic nominee’s stated who they would run with if they win in the Primaries?
08-02-2003 11:11 PM ET (US)
I am so glad you are here Sindhu. How is your medical blog coming? Who is General Wesley Clark? I have not heard of him yet. Tell me what you know and is any of Candidates running thinking about running with him? Has any of the democratic nominee’s stated who they would run with if they win in the Primaries?
Patti Ferschke 183
08-02-2003 11:14 PM ET (US)
PERSONALLY, I LIKE WES CLARK. WHAT I CAN'T FIGURE OUT IS, WHY WHEN THE WAR STATRTED ,DIDN'T HE SPEAK OUT ? WHAT I SAW WAS ANOTHER PUNDIT THAT THE MEDIA BROUGHT ON TO SUPPORT THE CAUSE OF "W". SORRY I DON'T GET THAT ONE.HE HAS YET TO MAKE A STANCE AS TO WHETHER HE'S A DEM OR REPULICAN. IT'S ALSO BEEN SAID WHEN 911 HAPPENED HE GOT A CALL FROM THE BUSH TEAM THAT SAID:"JUST AGREE WITH US,THIS IS WAR" ,AND THE PERSON ON THE OTHER SIDE JUST HUNG UP.DO YOU FOLKS SEE WHAT'S AT STAKE HERE? I'M HAPPY TO SEE SOME REPUBLICANS READY TO TAKE BUSH TO TASK ON THE LIES. IF YOU ALL WANT SOME VERY GOOD EDITORIAL WRITINGS..IT'S http//www.commondreams.org}..do go there as many fine writers appear there daily,and you can catch up on Mondays from the week-ends. Also http://www.counterpunch.com}.After you've spent some time there let me know what you think. Now ,today we hear BUSH is going right and center with what the DEMS plan to do,and we'll have another four years of say one thing do another..and sadly the public will buy it !
08-02-2003 11:14 PM ET (US)
PERSONALLY, I LIKE WES CLARK. WHAT I CAN'T FIGURE OUT IS, WHY WHEN THE WAR STATRTED ,DIDN'T HE SPEAK OUT ? WHAT I SAW WAS ANOTHER PUNDIT THAT THE MEDIA BROUGHT ON TO SUPPORT THE CAUSE OF "W". SORRY I DON'T GET THAT ONE.HE HAS YET TO MAKE A STANCE AS TO WHETHER HE'S A DEM OR REPULICAN. IT'S ALSO BEEN SAID WHEN 911 HAPPENED HE GOT A CALL FROM THE BUSH TEAM THAT SAID:"JUST AGREE WITH US,THIS IS WAR" ,AND THE PERSON ON THE OTHER SIDE JUST HUNG UP.DO YOU FOLKS SEE WHAT'S AT STAKE HERE? I'M HAPPY TO SEE SOME REPUBLICANS READY TO TAKE BUSH TO TASK ON THE LIES. IF YOU ALL WANT SOME VERY GOOD EDITORIAL WRITINGS..IT'S http//www.commondreams.org}..do go there as many fine writers appear there daily,and you can catch up on Mondays from the week-ends. Also http://www.counterpunch.com}.After you've spent some time there let me know what you think. Now ,today we hear BUSH is going right and center with what the DEMS plan to do,and we'll have another four years of say one thing do another..and sadly the public will buy it !
Wayne in Missouri 184
08-02-2003 11:14 PM ET (US)
Sindhu,
I think Wesley Clark would be an outstanding Vice Presidential candidate as he would bolster the secrurity/foreign policy credentials of his Presedential running mate and also give them electoral play in some Southern swing states. In a way he strikes me as a better VP candidate than a Presedential one because it makes more sense to have the Vice President be very strong in one important area and a President who is involved in several areas than the other way around. If Clark were at the top of the ticket then he'd have to find a running mate who has balanced budgets, worked with health care and education and the environment etc.
That said I could see Clark as a potential Presedential candidate too. I just think he is even more ideally suited for the Vice President slot.
08-02-2003 11:14 PM ET (US)
Sindhu,
I think Wesley Clark would be an outstanding Vice Presidential candidate as he would bolster the secrurity/foreign policy credentials of his Presedential running mate and also give them electoral play in some Southern swing states. In a way he strikes me as a better VP candidate than a Presedential one because it makes more sense to have the Vice President be very strong in one important area and a President who is involved in several areas than the other way around. If Clark were at the top of the ticket then he'd have to find a running mate who has balanced budgets, worked with health care and education and the environment etc.
That said I could see Clark as a potential Presedential candidate too. I just think he is even more ideally suited for the Vice President slot.
Patti Ferschke 185
08-02-2003 11:18 PM ET (US)
Oops it's, {http://www.counterpunch.org},and {http;//www.commondreams.org}...........gees I still have a lot to learn,and you are the best teachers!
08-02-2003 11:18 PM ET (US)
Oops it's, {http://www.counterpunch.org},and {http;//www.commondreams.org}...........gees I still have a lot to learn,and you are the best teachers!
Patti Ferschke 186
08-02-2003 11:20 PM ET (US)
One more time..lol{http://www.commondreams.org}..we gotta do this!
08-02-2003 11:20 PM ET (US)
One more time..lol{http://www.commondreams.org}..we gotta do this!
Ann Stewart 188
08-02-2003 11:25 PM ET (US)
Good Girl Patti
You're doing great. I'm editing all your comment for the comments pages now. So I may be out of contact for a while. Thanks for all the great comments. I love them.
08-02-2003 11:25 PM ET (US)
Good Girl Patti
You're doing great. I'm editing all your comment for the comments pages now. So I may be out of contact for a while. Thanks for all the great comments. I love them.
sindhu kumar 189
08-02-2003 11:27 PM ET (US)
a brief history about general wesley clark: he was born in arkansas. was first in his class at west point (army academy), rhodes scholar. 58 years old. married (although i dont know his wife's name). he was the NATO supreme commander under the clinton administration. he quit because he did not agree with some of the policies of the clinton adminstration during the bosnia-herzegovinap-kosovo war. he was and still is one of the three military analysts that CNN uses along with retired major general don sheppard (USAF retired) and brigadier general David Grange (US ARMY retired) when the war began in april. you would see him along with generals sheppard and grange with myles o'brien during the live from CNN hour (which would be around 11 am to 2 pm central time zone). he would be giving his analysis about the whereabouts of saddam and his republican army guard and how the army's infantry division would get there. he was asked about his party affliation when he appeared on crossfire with robert novak, james carville, paul begala and tucker carlson this past friday. he told them and the cross fire audience that he is still in the process of making up his mind and when he made up his mind, he would tell CNN.
08-02-2003 11:27 PM ET (US)
a brief history about general wesley clark: he was born in arkansas. was first in his class at west point (army academy), rhodes scholar. 58 years old. married (although i dont know his wife's name). he was the NATO supreme commander under the clinton administration. he quit because he did not agree with some of the policies of the clinton adminstration during the bosnia-herzegovinap-kosovo war. he was and still is one of the three military analysts that CNN uses along with retired major general don sheppard (USAF retired) and brigadier general David Grange (US ARMY retired) when the war began in april. you would see him along with generals sheppard and grange with myles o'brien during the live from CNN hour (which would be around 11 am to 2 pm central time zone). he would be giving his analysis about the whereabouts of saddam and his republican army guard and how the army's infantry division would get there. he was asked about his party affliation when he appeared on crossfire with robert novak, james carville, paul begala and tucker carlson this past friday. he told them and the cross fire audience that he is still in the process of making up his mind and when he made up his mind, he would tell CNN.
Ann Stewart 190
08-02-2003 11:28 PM ET (US)
Hello Wayne in Missouri
Welcome to the on line 2004 election debate. Please feel free to speak your mind.
08-02-2003 11:28 PM ET (US)
Hello Wayne in Missouri
Welcome to the on line 2004 election debate. Please feel free to speak your mind.
Wayne in Missouri 191
08-02-2003 11:33 PM ET (US)
Wesley Clark was first in his class at West Point, was a Rhodes Scholar, was wounded in Vietnam and won a Purple Heart and a Silver Star and is a 4 star general who opposes the military action in Iraq. He provides a voice against the current conflict that can't be written off as "hippie pacifism" and would make it hard for Bush (who ducked national guard duty) to claim a monopoly on being the "military guy."
Clark is from Arkansas and has made some noises about running for President in the Democratic Primary but more likely he'll be someone's running mate.
On the Dean weblogs, Clark is the name most often mentioned in speculation about who Dean's running mate would be should he win the nomination. And my guess is Clark would be the first person approached by Dean's staff, but that is only a guess on my part.
08-02-2003 11:33 PM ET (US)
Wesley Clark was first in his class at West Point, was a Rhodes Scholar, was wounded in Vietnam and won a Purple Heart and a Silver Star and is a 4 star general who opposes the military action in Iraq. He provides a voice against the current conflict that can't be written off as "hippie pacifism" and would make it hard for Bush (who ducked national guard duty) to claim a monopoly on being the "military guy."
Clark is from Arkansas and has made some noises about running for President in the Democratic Primary but more likely he'll be someone's running mate.
On the Dean weblogs, Clark is the name most often mentioned in speculation about who Dean's running mate would be should he win the nomination. And my guess is Clark would be the first person approached by Dean's staff, but that is only a guess on my part.
sindhu kumar 192
08-02-2003 11:39 PM ET (US)
john kerry has the financial resources to use to his advantage. what he should be doing is talk about what he accomplished as a senator from massachusetts and how the people from teh state of massachusetts benefited by having his help. his wife teresa, if many of you guys and gals dont know, is the former widow of senator john j. heintz, (an heir to the heintz ketchup company), who was a republican from teh state of pennsylvania who died in a plane crash while campaining for relection seat which is now being occupied by senator rick santorum.
08-02-2003 11:39 PM ET (US)
john kerry has the financial resources to use to his advantage. what he should be doing is talk about what he accomplished as a senator from massachusetts and how the people from teh state of massachusetts benefited by having his help. his wife teresa, if many of you guys and gals dont know, is the former widow of senator john j. heintz, (an heir to the heintz ketchup company), who was a republican from teh state of pennsylvania who died in a plane crash while campaining for relection seat which is now being occupied by senator rick santorum.
Patti Ferschke 193
08-03-2003 12:10 AM ET (US)
First off I want to thank Keith and Ann for providing us with this outlet,both of you have done a fine job presenting the issues at hand in a non-partisan venue. When I speak of an "outlet"I mean,both mentally and internally as you all get it, when you say "we have no free press",and the pundits rule! The media is now positioning themselves to continue the BUSH lies,so we'll get BUSH again....Mr.say one thing do another! It is an outrage to me that we have no voice, and those of that have a brain if we dare speak out against the atrocities of this Administration, are labeled dissenters! And if that's not enough folks, we continue to get more "press lies" and mainstream Americans buy that stuff,....all in the name of FREEDOM !
BUSH'S agenda on freedom means capitalism,and his stance on liberty,means militarism !His stance on education is vouchers,yet leaves millions of kids behind..his many environmental double speak outright lies ,like "blue skies act,green
forest acts,have proven results of a "D" and "F" report cards, just like he got from YALE! If any of you {that support BUSH }, think for one minute,GOD is in his ball -park,think again.......my God doesn't work that way,as
"W"S even got "God" confused ! BUSH has only the non-thinkers confused and frightened..the rest of us are not afraid to see things in a new and improved way..our lives depend on new leadership. So you see George,"we're going to bring you out, bring on a new guy with new ideas,it's going to be a new day in America,and the world's going to like us better than you!
08-03-2003 12:10 AM ET (US)
First off I want to thank Keith and Ann for providing us with this outlet,both of you have done a fine job presenting the issues at hand in a non-partisan venue. When I speak of an "outlet"I mean,both mentally and internally as you all get it, when you say "we have no free press",and the pundits rule! The media is now positioning themselves to continue the BUSH lies,so we'll get BUSH again....Mr.say one thing do another! It is an outrage to me that we have no voice, and those of that have a brain if we dare speak out against the atrocities of this Administration, are labeled dissenters! And if that's not enough folks, we continue to get more "press lies" and mainstream Americans buy that stuff,....all in the name of FREEDOM !
BUSH'S agenda on freedom means capitalism,and his stance on liberty,means militarism !His stance on education is vouchers,yet leaves millions of kids behind..his many environmental double speak outright lies ,like "blue skies act,green
forest acts,have proven results of a "D" and "F" report cards, just like he got from YALE! If any of you {that support BUSH }, think for one minute,GOD is in his ball -park,think again.......my God doesn't work that way,as
"W"S even got "God" confused ! BUSH has only the non-thinkers confused and frightened..the rest of us are not afraid to see things in a new and improved way..our lives depend on new leadership. So you see George,"we're going to bring you out, bring on a new guy with new ideas,it's going to be a new day in America,and the world's going to like us better than you!
Patti Ferschke 194
08-03-2003 12:14 AM ET (US)
Watch out GEORGE, the monkey's gonna get you yet! You may be healthy,you're gonna need that health as you fall on your own sword!
08-03-2003 12:14 AM ET (US)
Watch out GEORGE, the monkey's gonna get you yet! You may be healthy,you're gonna need that health as you fall on your own sword!
Patti Ferschke 196
08-03-2003 12:26 AM ET (US)
Sindhu,it's my belief the Senator need not say what he's done for MASS..let the record speak..... four senate terms !
He's not only done for MASS. ,he's gone and done for ALL Americans and will continue to do so. Let him not take any blame for his absense these days as he needs to be absent, so he can continue to take care of ALL of us in the future! He will be front and forward,we'll get him there as he has a message and will be the messenger! Let's grant him that time to prepare that message..it's going to be a good one,and it certainly will beat anything "W"s going to give us...."we the people" know better,deserve better...we're gonna get better,and we're going get the best AMERICA has to offer to, AMERICANS!
08-03-2003 12:26 AM ET (US)
Sindhu,it's my belief the Senator need not say what he's done for MASS..let the record speak..... four senate terms !
He's not only done for MASS. ,he's gone and done for ALL Americans and will continue to do so. Let him not take any blame for his absense these days as he needs to be absent, so he can continue to take care of ALL of us in the future! He will be front and forward,we'll get him there as he has a message and will be the messenger! Let's grant him that time to prepare that message..it's going to be a good one,and it certainly will beat anything "W"s going to give us...."we the people" know better,deserve better...we're gonna get better,and we're going get the best AMERICA has to offer to, AMERICANS!
Ann Stewart 197
08-03-2003 12:51 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-03-2003 12:58 AM
Does anybody understand the "automated-response@earthlink.net" comment? What is that? That never happened before. If someone will explain it to us than maybe we all will know. If no one knows than just please folks continue with the debate.
08-03-2003 12:51 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-03-2003 12:58 AM
Does anybody understand the "automated-response@earthlink.net" comment? What is that? That never happened before. If someone will explain it to us than maybe we all will know. If no one knows than just please folks continue with the debate.
Ann Stewart 198
08-03-2003 01:59 AM ET (US)
Hey Patti thanks for the complement. I'm sure Keith thanks you too.
Patti Stated:
"First off I want to thank Keith and Ann for providing us with this outlet,both of you have done a fine job presenting the issues at hand in a non-partisan venue."
Thank you for coming to the debate Patti.
08-03-2003 01:59 AM ET (US)
Hey Patti thanks for the complement. I'm sure Keith thanks you too.
Patti Stated:
"First off I want to thank Keith and Ann for providing us with this outlet,both of you have done a fine job presenting the issues at hand in a non-partisan venue."
Thank you for coming to the debate Patti.
Ann Stewart 199
08-03-2003 02:02 AM ET (US)
Well it's 1 am in the morning and I am signing off to sleep. Feel free to post all night if you want to. Thankyou so much for coming to the debate everyone.
08-03-2003 02:02 AM ET (US)
Well it's 1 am in the morning and I am signing off to sleep. Feel free to post all night if you want to. Thankyou so much for coming to the debate everyone.
Keith Brekhus 200
08-03-2003 02:57 AM ET (US)
Yes, thanks Patti...
A couple thoughts on Dean vs. Kerry as the Democratic nominee:
In some ways this discussion may be academic. Ultimately the 2004 election may be above all else a referendum on whether people approve or disapprove of Bush, regardless of the Democratic nominee.
However, when comparing Dean and Kerry ironically I find Dean's strengths are also his weaknesses and the same is true for Kerry. Let me explain.
I see Kerry as a safe candidate...no matter what, he will solidly carry the Democratic base and deliver the 12 safest Democratic states and DC without a doubt. If Bush is unpopular come next November, Kerry will never gaffe and completely blow the election. On the other hand if Bush is even doing so-so, he can safely be reelected as the incumbent because Kerry isn't going to fire up new voters or inspire swing voters enough to be a threat to Bush if Bush is reasonably popular.
Dean has an entirely different dynamic---he is a firebrand, a risk-taker and potentially a loose cannon. He could gaffe and blow a safe state like New York, or he could blow the lid open and stun Bush in Montana, Colorado or Nevada. With Dean you can't take anything for granted either way--he could get rolled in a landslide or he could win in the political earthquake of the century because he redefines the way a campaign is run.
Lets take the comparison to the swing states and see who fares better.
I'll also point out that Governor's usually fare better than Senators (big edge-Dean)
On the other hand, taller candidates almost always win--Dean is 5'9", Kerry over 6' (big edge Kerry).
Now the swing state comparison.
Some states like Utah and Alabama are safe for the Republicans. Others like Vermont and Massachusetts are safe for the Democrats.
Ultimately the election will be decided in these states:
Pennsylvania, Iowa, Wisconsin, New Mexico, Oregon, Minnesota and Michigan are all must wins for the Democrats, but close enough to be up for grabs. Gore carried all these states.
if a Democrat carries all the states Gore carried (not including disputed Florida) they will need 10 more electoral votes to win the election from any combination below:
Arizona (10)
West Virginia (5)
New Hampshire (4)
Nevada (5)
Arkansas (6)
Florida (27)
Ohio (21)
Missouri (11)
Taking these swing states who looks better Dean or Kerry?
Pennsylvania: probably not much difference here, but I would give the edge to Kerry. I think either candidate pulls this one of over Bush but it will be perilously close.
Iowa: moderate edge to Dean. He is polling 19% there among likely Caucus attendees compared to 12% for Kerry.
Wisconsin and Minnesota: I think big edge for Dean. These Upper Midwesterners love no-nonsense confrontational Washington outsiders like Wellstone, Feingold and Jesse Ventura. Dean is like a mix of all three of those, Kerry just comes across as a typical east coast liberal to the folks in Minneapolis or Madison.
Oregon: Dean has a big edge over Kerry in the West.
New Mexico: Even bigger than Oregon, Dean is very popular in polls conducted in the Rocky Mountain and Desert Southwest states. His neo-libertarian states rights stance on gun control makes him the ideal Democratic candidate for this region of the West. I would say huge edge Dean, but since Kerry is polling well among Hispanics in Iowa I'll be nice and say moderate edge Dean assuming Kerry's Hispanic support in Iowa translates into something nationally as well.
Michigan: Actually with unions so strong this is Gephardt territory. However, between Kerry and Dean I will rule this one a push...Kerry appeals to traditional Democrats and will probably fare pretty well with blacks here too. Dean will score extremely well in college towns like Ann Arbor and Lansing and in the Upper Penninsula. In either case, a Democrat should win Michigan especially since the Arab-American vote which went 2-1 for Bush in 2000 is trending a complete reversal (polls suggest 2-1 for the Democrat in 2004). The Arab-American vote is a large block in Michigan.
Arizona: slight edge Dean for reasons stated about New Mexico. Kerry stays close because of retirees.
West Virginia: Big edge Dean. Despite support for gay civil unions (not popular in conservative WV),Dean wins out because of gun stance and Washington outsider status.
New Hampshire: Push. Either candidate wins it over Bush as a backyard New England perk.
Nevada: Definite edge Dean and a huge edge at that.
Arkansas: Push. Neither one wins, unless Wesley Clark is VP candidate, then either one probably wins.
Florida: strong edge Kerry. This is one state where I will admit Kerry has a distinct advantage over Dean. While Dean is running better among seniors than one might expect, this is still Kerry's domain.
Ohio: Push. Maybe slight edge Dean just for his Chutzpah, but I doubt either one carries Ohio.
Missouri: Big edge Dean, but chances are Bush wins Missouri anyway.
It would appear either Dean or Kerry is capable of scoring the 270 Electoral Votes necessary to become President.
08-03-2003 02:57 AM ET (US)
Yes, thanks Patti...
A couple thoughts on Dean vs. Kerry as the Democratic nominee:
In some ways this discussion may be academic. Ultimately the 2004 election may be above all else a referendum on whether people approve or disapprove of Bush, regardless of the Democratic nominee.
However, when comparing Dean and Kerry ironically I find Dean's strengths are also his weaknesses and the same is true for Kerry. Let me explain.
I see Kerry as a safe candidate...no matter what, he will solidly carry the Democratic base and deliver the 12 safest Democratic states and DC without a doubt. If Bush is unpopular come next November, Kerry will never gaffe and completely blow the election. On the other hand if Bush is even doing so-so, he can safely be reelected as the incumbent because Kerry isn't going to fire up new voters or inspire swing voters enough to be a threat to Bush if Bush is reasonably popular.
Dean has an entirely different dynamic---he is a firebrand, a risk-taker and potentially a loose cannon. He could gaffe and blow a safe state like New York, or he could blow the lid open and stun Bush in Montana, Colorado or Nevada. With Dean you can't take anything for granted either way--he could get rolled in a landslide or he could win in the political earthquake of the century because he redefines the way a campaign is run.
Lets take the comparison to the swing states and see who fares better.
I'll also point out that Governor's usually fare better than Senators (big edge-Dean)
On the other hand, taller candidates almost always win--Dean is 5'9", Kerry over 6' (big edge Kerry).
Now the swing state comparison.
Some states like Utah and Alabama are safe for the Republicans. Others like Vermont and Massachusetts are safe for the Democrats.
Ultimately the election will be decided in these states:
Pennsylvania, Iowa, Wisconsin, New Mexico, Oregon, Minnesota and Michigan are all must wins for the Democrats, but close enough to be up for grabs. Gore carried all these states.
if a Democrat carries all the states Gore carried (not including disputed Florida) they will need 10 more electoral votes to win the election from any combination below:
Arizona (10)
West Virginia (5)
New Hampshire (4)
Nevada (5)
Arkansas (6)
Florida (27)
Ohio (21)
Missouri (11)
Taking these swing states who looks better Dean or Kerry?
Pennsylvania: probably not much difference here, but I would give the edge to Kerry. I think either candidate pulls this one of over Bush but it will be perilously close.
Iowa: moderate edge to Dean. He is polling 19% there among likely Caucus attendees compared to 12% for Kerry.
Wisconsin and Minnesota: I think big edge for Dean. These Upper Midwesterners love no-nonsense confrontational Washington outsiders like Wellstone, Feingold and Jesse Ventura. Dean is like a mix of all three of those, Kerry just comes across as a typical east coast liberal to the folks in Minneapolis or Madison.
Oregon: Dean has a big edge over Kerry in the West.
New Mexico: Even bigger than Oregon, Dean is very popular in polls conducted in the Rocky Mountain and Desert Southwest states. His neo-libertarian states rights stance on gun control makes him the ideal Democratic candidate for this region of the West. I would say huge edge Dean, but since Kerry is polling well among Hispanics in Iowa I'll be nice and say moderate edge Dean assuming Kerry's Hispanic support in Iowa translates into something nationally as well.
Michigan: Actually with unions so strong this is Gephardt territory. However, between Kerry and Dean I will rule this one a push...Kerry appeals to traditional Democrats and will probably fare pretty well with blacks here too. Dean will score extremely well in college towns like Ann Arbor and Lansing and in the Upper Penninsula. In either case, a Democrat should win Michigan especially since the Arab-American vote which went 2-1 for Bush in 2000 is trending a complete reversal (polls suggest 2-1 for the Democrat in 2004). The Arab-American vote is a large block in Michigan.
Arizona: slight edge Dean for reasons stated about New Mexico. Kerry stays close because of retirees.
West Virginia: Big edge Dean. Despite support for gay civil unions (not popular in conservative WV),Dean wins out because of gun stance and Washington outsider status.
New Hampshire: Push. Either candidate wins it over Bush as a backyard New England perk.
Nevada: Definite edge Dean and a huge edge at that.
Arkansas: Push. Neither one wins, unless Wesley Clark is VP candidate, then either one probably wins.
Florida: strong edge Kerry. This is one state where I will admit Kerry has a distinct advantage over Dean. While Dean is running better among seniors than one might expect, this is still Kerry's domain.
Ohio: Push. Maybe slight edge Dean just for his Chutzpah, but I doubt either one carries Ohio.
Missouri: Big edge Dean, but chances are Bush wins Missouri anyway.
It would appear either Dean or Kerry is capable of scoring the 270 Electoral Votes necessary to become President.
Michael Bohannon 201
08-03-2003 03:12 AM ET (US)
Does anyone know where the candidates stand on alternative energy resources? I have been interested in this subject even before the war. I wonder if there is a viable source of energy that would make us more self-sufficient.
Charles in Montana, I agree with you that promoting fear has been utilized in numerous campaigns, but I think these current fears aren’t unsubstantiated. For the first time in American history, there was a successful attack on our soil with devastating effects. I know as you know that Iraq had nothing to do with that, and I hope as you do that the American people will see through that rhetoric, but this terrorist attack has had more effect on us then the “Red Scare” ever did. I argue with people at work all the time about the fact that there was no evidence at all linking the Iraqi regime with any terrorist network. Yet, it goes in one ear and out the other. I also argue that terrorism cannot be defeated militarily, unless you’re willing to allow our government to commit human rights violations. The answer I get: “So what!” Our indifference to the Middle East has escalated to hate.
08-03-2003 03:12 AM ET (US)
Does anyone know where the candidates stand on alternative energy resources? I have been interested in this subject even before the war. I wonder if there is a viable source of energy that would make us more self-sufficient.
Charles in Montana, I agree with you that promoting fear has been utilized in numerous campaigns, but I think these current fears aren’t unsubstantiated. For the first time in American history, there was a successful attack on our soil with devastating effects. I know as you know that Iraq had nothing to do with that, and I hope as you do that the American people will see through that rhetoric, but this terrorist attack has had more effect on us then the “Red Scare” ever did. I argue with people at work all the time about the fact that there was no evidence at all linking the Iraqi regime with any terrorist network. Yet, it goes in one ear and out the other. I also argue that terrorism cannot be defeated militarily, unless you’re willing to allow our government to commit human rights violations. The answer I get: “So what!” Our indifference to the Middle East has escalated to hate.
sindhu kumar 202
08-03-2003 03:43 AM ET (US)
you can add louisiana to the list of battle ground swing states. who so ever carried this most stubbornest of southern states has gone on to win the presidency. bushie carried it in 2000; clinton-gore in 1992 and 1996; father bush in 1988; reagan-bush in 1980 and 1984.
08-03-2003 03:43 AM ET (US)
you can add louisiana to the list of battle ground swing states. who so ever carried this most stubbornest of southern states has gone on to win the presidency. bushie carried it in 2000; clinton-gore in 1992 and 1996; father bush in 1988; reagan-bush in 1980 and 1984.
Alison Brown 204
08-03-2003 04:03 AM ET (US)
Michael,
I am not familiar with what the other candidates have said about this, but Howard Dean gave a speech in California a few days ago on environmental policy. A good portion of the speech discussed alternative energy resources, including the use of windmills and solar panels. He also said that he strongly favors the research and development of more fuel-efficient electric and hybrid cars, and would like to see more research on hydrogen-powered cars. He seems very well-informed on the issue. If you'd like to see the full text of the speech, it is available on his campaign website http://www.deanforamerica.com .
Just as a side note, windmills have been known to devastate flocks of migrating birds, so many environmental groups and ornithological societies are against them.
08-03-2003 04:03 AM ET (US)
Michael,
I am not familiar with what the other candidates have said about this, but Howard Dean gave a speech in California a few days ago on environmental policy. A good portion of the speech discussed alternative energy resources, including the use of windmills and solar panels. He also said that he strongly favors the research and development of more fuel-efficient electric and hybrid cars, and would like to see more research on hydrogen-powered cars. He seems very well-informed on the issue. If you'd like to see the full text of the speech, it is available on his campaign website http://www.deanforamerica.com .
Just as a side note, windmills have been known to devastate flocks of migrating birds, so many environmental groups and ornithological societies are against them.
Ann Stewart 205
08-03-2003 09:46 AM ET (US)
Good Morning everyone
I hope you all slept well last night. I was going to tell you that are already in the group today, I am going to try to find Bush Supporters and bring them into the debate. Also I am going to invite Lieberman and Gephardt’s supporter in too if I can find them. I checked the zogy poll that Keith provided and it says Lieberman and Gephardt are equally as supported in the race as Dean, but I find it hard to contact them on the internet. I think Dean’s campaign on the internet is much more effective, but if some of the supporters do show up, it up to you guys to defend your man.
Thanks again everybody for coming back today. I will be absent for a little while I will be surfing the net for supporters.
Alison Brown I posted that site you sent on the military at the Gupta Gab fest for my other on line discussion. I really enjoy that site. It brought tears to my eyes. Thank you so much for bring it to my attention. Sindhu I will check out your medical blog today. Does anybody know what the current Bush administration is has decided to do or has done with the troops Liberia?
08-03-2003 09:46 AM ET (US)
Good Morning everyone
I hope you all slept well last night. I was going to tell you that are already in the group today, I am going to try to find Bush Supporters and bring them into the debate. Also I am going to invite Lieberman and Gephardt’s supporter in too if I can find them. I checked the zogy poll that Keith provided and it says Lieberman and Gephardt are equally as supported in the race as Dean, but I find it hard to contact them on the internet. I think Dean’s campaign on the internet is much more effective, but if some of the supporters do show up, it up to you guys to defend your man.
Thanks again everybody for coming back today. I will be absent for a little while I will be surfing the net for supporters.
Alison Brown I posted that site you sent on the military at the Gupta Gab fest for my other on line discussion. I really enjoy that site. It brought tears to my eyes. Thank you so much for bring it to my attention. Sindhu I will check out your medical blog today. Does anybody know what the current Bush administration is has decided to do or has done with the troops Liberia?
Ann Stewart 206
08-03-2003 09:48 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-03-2003 09:51 AM
Wow Keith it is amazing to me you have a opinion on every state. I am defiantly not educated about this election enough to know all that. Thanks for sharing Keith. Welcome back Michael, but I don't know much about the energy resources either, Good Question!!! Maybe someone in the group does.
08-03-2003 09:48 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-03-2003 09:51 AM
Wow Keith it is amazing to me you have a opinion on every state. I am defiantly not educated about this election enough to know all that. Thanks for sharing Keith. Welcome back Michael, but I don't know much about the energy resources either, Good Question!!! Maybe someone in the group does.
Jennifer 207
08-03-2003 11:58 AM ET (US)
I'm not trying to be the odd women out here, but does anybody here think George Bush is doing a good job for our country? I thought he handled the War with Iraq well, and 9/11 was his strongest support time. Now it seems like so many are against him. All presidents get critized. I just think we should stand by the man we choose, instead of tearing him down all the time. Many people will do that to the next Pres. too.
08-03-2003 11:58 AM ET (US)
I'm not trying to be the odd women out here, but does anybody here think George Bush is doing a good job for our country? I thought he handled the War with Iraq well, and 9/11 was his strongest support time. Now it seems like so many are against him. All presidents get critized. I just think we should stand by the man we choose, instead of tearing him down all the time. Many people will do that to the next Pres. too.
Keith Brekhus 208
08-03-2003 12:02 PM ET (US)
I know I have become a hopeless political junkie :-). Yes as Sindhu said Louisiana might be in play but I think Bush still has the advantage there. In the last century I think everyone who won the White House carried "the Baker". The Baker is the five states that border the Mississippi River (to the west) in the middle of the country (Minnesota, Iowa, Missouri, Arkansas, and Louisiana). Whoever wins three or more of these states (and they are all usually competitive states in close elections) wins, at least historically that is the case.
08-03-2003 12:02 PM ET (US)
I know I have become a hopeless political junkie :-). Yes as Sindhu said Louisiana might be in play but I think Bush still has the advantage there. In the last century I think everyone who won the White House carried "the Baker". The Baker is the five states that border the Mississippi River (to the west) in the middle of the country (Minnesota, Iowa, Missouri, Arkansas, and Louisiana). Whoever wins three or more of these states (and they are all usually competitive states in close elections) wins, at least historically that is the case.
Keith Brekhus 209
08-03-2003 12:10 PM ET (US)
Some good things Bush has done in my opinion:
He was compassionate enough to grant amnesty to several hundred thousand illegal aliens from Mexico who are working in the United States and already have established families here.
He sent several million dollars to address the AIDs problem in Africa. (A few flaws in his program there, but still on balance more positive than negative).
He has handled the Israel/Palestine issue relatively well.
Other than that,I mostly disagree with what he has done though so I am voting aginst him in November, but I thought I would point out what he has done right for a change :-).
08-03-2003 12:10 PM ET (US)
Some good things Bush has done in my opinion:
He was compassionate enough to grant amnesty to several hundred thousand illegal aliens from Mexico who are working in the United States and already have established families here.
He sent several million dollars to address the AIDs problem in Africa. (A few flaws in his program there, but still on balance more positive than negative).
He has handled the Israel/Palestine issue relatively well.
Other than that,I mostly disagree with what he has done though so I am voting aginst him in November, but I thought I would point out what he has done right for a change :-).
Jennifer 210
08-03-2003 12:12 PM ET (US)
There should be kinder remarks on the Bush comments page. So here I go. Bush has done a wonderful job at being President. He has tryed to bring prayer back to our schools and in our lives. He is trying to end abortion. He has given tax refunds to families with children who need it. He has never raised taxes. He gave money and support back in the hands of the people, and he will keep up this wonderful work he has done if he wins the election in 2004 again. Vote Bush!!!!!! Look at all the wonderful things he has done for our country. I love him for it, and you should too. Vote Bush 2004
08-03-2003 12:12 PM ET (US)
There should be kinder remarks on the Bush comments page. So here I go. Bush has done a wonderful job at being President. He has tryed to bring prayer back to our schools and in our lives. He is trying to end abortion. He has given tax refunds to families with children who need it. He has never raised taxes. He gave money and support back in the hands of the people, and he will keep up this wonderful work he has done if he wins the election in 2004 again. Vote Bush!!!!!! Look at all the wonderful things he has done for our country. I love him for it, and you should too. Vote Bush 2004
Jennifer 211
08-03-2003 12:18 PM ET (US)
Thankyou Keith
I feel like Ann has worked hard to put this site together and I read you helped her. So thanks. She is really in to this. I can say it does work. I am much more knowledgeable about the others running now. If Bush wasn't the great Pres. I beleive he is, I would probaby vote for Dean. I am a democrat, but I just don't believe in abortion and the dem's are to libral. Why can't we get a dem running who doesn't beleive in abortion?
08-03-2003 12:18 PM ET (US)
Thankyou Keith
I feel like Ann has worked hard to put this site together and I read you helped her. So thanks. She is really in to this. I can say it does work. I am much more knowledgeable about the others running now. If Bush wasn't the great Pres. I beleive he is, I would probaby vote for Dean. I am a democrat, but I just don't believe in abortion and the dem's are to libral. Why can't we get a dem running who doesn't beleive in abortion?
Jennifer 212
08-03-2003 12:21 PM ET (US)
Ann I posted something for you on your blog if you get this message. Love you Ann
Jen
Hi Sindhu
I'm glad your here today. Thanks for asking me to come back. I enjoy your comments too.
08-03-2003 12:21 PM ET (US)
Ann I posted something for you on your blog if you get this message. Love you Ann
Jen
Hi Sindhu
I'm glad your here today. Thanks for asking me to come back. I enjoy your comments too.
Lysa 213
08-03-2003 12:22 PM ET (US)
Jennifer,
Do a study on foreign investment in this country and something called Petro Dollars. Part of the flap about Iraq and France was that Iraq wanted to sell their oil to France using Euros rather than US petro dollars. It's not talked about or mentioned very often. Our economy is in the toilet due to these huge, rarely mentioned on the mainstream, influences.
Iraq should have been handled much differently than it was. By jumping the gun we all lost and will continue to lose. Bush Should be criticized for that. 9/11 and the Iraq war, the war in Afghanistan have all proved to be big hitters in the polls for bush. It's a strategy based on fear. Some justified and some not. Do we want to applaud someone that has driven our world position into a nose dive, our economy into the hole? Should he be rewarded for his blind reasoning? I personally don't think so.
On Missouri: I'm not from here originally but I have noticed that people here don't go out of their way to proclaim themselves automatically. There are a lot of republicans here, but Missouri folk like straight talkers. Missouri went democratic after the New Deal and has been solidly until about what two decades? People in Missouri ( ashcroft excepted ) tend to be very polite. If they don't agree with you they won't say so. It's not called the show me state for nothing. People are watching, but it's pretty rare to get a strong response in average circumstances. How it goes Election day will be very interesting.
08-03-2003 12:22 PM ET (US)
Jennifer,
Do a study on foreign investment in this country and something called Petro Dollars. Part of the flap about Iraq and France was that Iraq wanted to sell their oil to France using Euros rather than US petro dollars. It's not talked about or mentioned very often. Our economy is in the toilet due to these huge, rarely mentioned on the mainstream, influences.
Iraq should have been handled much differently than it was. By jumping the gun we all lost and will continue to lose. Bush Should be criticized for that. 9/11 and the Iraq war, the war in Afghanistan have all proved to be big hitters in the polls for bush. It's a strategy based on fear. Some justified and some not. Do we want to applaud someone that has driven our world position into a nose dive, our economy into the hole? Should he be rewarded for his blind reasoning? I personally don't think so.
On Missouri: I'm not from here originally but I have noticed that people here don't go out of their way to proclaim themselves automatically. There are a lot of republicans here, but Missouri folk like straight talkers. Missouri went democratic after the New Deal and has been solidly until about what two decades? People in Missouri ( ashcroft excepted ) tend to be very polite. If they don't agree with you they won't say so. It's not called the show me state for nothing. People are watching, but it's pretty rare to get a strong response in average circumstances. How it goes Election day will be very interesting.
Ann Stewart 214
08-03-2003 12:25 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-03-2003 12:27 PM
Keith we love you being a hopeless political junkie. So please keep posting. You have come up with great information for us to use.
Jenny I got your message. Thanks sweetheart
Does anybody know the answer to Micheal's question on Energy?
Good infomation Lysa
08-03-2003 12:25 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-03-2003 12:27 PM
Keith we love you being a hopeless political junkie. So please keep posting. You have come up with great information for us to use.
Jenny I got your message. Thanks sweetheart
Does anybody know the answer to Micheal's question on Energy?
Good infomation Lysa
Lysa 215
08-03-2003 12:31 PM ET (US)
Jennifer,
I applaud you for your faith and firm beliefs in your religion. However I strongly feel that church should remain separated from government. This is a land of many diverse faiths. To put one type of religion above all others is dangerous. Which is why more than ever Church and Government need to remain separate.
We do not need to encourage intolerance and hatred.
08-03-2003 12:31 PM ET (US)
Jennifer,
I applaud you for your faith and firm beliefs in your religion. However I strongly feel that church should remain separated from government. This is a land of many diverse faiths. To put one type of religion above all others is dangerous. Which is why more than ever Church and Government need to remain separate.
We do not need to encourage intolerance and hatred.
sindhu kumar 216
08-03-2003 12:34 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-03-2003 12:36 PM
keith: i too am a hopeless political junkie in addition to being a movie, books (fashion magazines, novels), rock and country music junkie.
08-03-2003 12:34 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-03-2003 12:36 PM
keith: i too am a hopeless political junkie in addition to being a movie, books (fashion magazines, novels), rock and country music junkie.
Jennifer 217
08-03-2003 12:35 PM ET (US)
Alot of people beleive the war had to be done. We were in a treat with Iraq and Bush did what he could to avoid war, but couldn't. Other people say he started the war. I'm not sure, but Bush is a smart man. I don't beleive the people who say he's stupid. People are always cruel and senical to Presidents. He speaks well in public.
Sorry for being a bad typist.
I've never been good at typing.
08-03-2003 12:35 PM ET (US)
Alot of people beleive the war had to be done. We were in a treat with Iraq and Bush did what he could to avoid war, but couldn't. Other people say he started the war. I'm not sure, but Bush is a smart man. I don't beleive the people who say he's stupid. People are always cruel and senical to Presidents. He speaks well in public.
Sorry for being a bad typist.
I've never been good at typing.
Jennifer 218
08-03-2003 12:40 PM ET (US)
I am a deep catholic and I think we need more prayer in our schools and government. If you leave out God, you have left out all morals. But that’s all I’m going to say on the subject. Ann Please post my comments for Bush. I am one for Bush.
God Bless all of you
Jen
08-03-2003 12:40 PM ET (US)
I am a deep catholic and I think we need more prayer in our schools and government. If you leave out God, you have left out all morals. But that’s all I’m going to say on the subject. Ann Please post my comments for Bush. I am one for Bush.
God Bless all of you
Jen
Keith Brekhus 219
08-03-2003 12:45 PM ET (US)
In response to Michael's question, both Howard Dean and John Kerry have set ambitious targets for the amount of our energy that should come from renewable sources, and both favor conservation through raising the milesper gallon our nation's fleet of automobiles get.
Both the Dean and Kerry energy plans are visionary and future-focused rather than the "gobble up all the oil we can even if it means drilling in National Parks and invading foreign lands" plan that seems to pass for energy policy today.
As for wind power, the newer model wind turbines are much less detrimental to migratory birds than they used to be so that isn't much of an issue anymore for most environmentalists.
HOWARD DEAN
Source: Grist magazine interview
Grist: What is your vision for America's energy plan?
Dean: I want renewables. Wind is here. The Europeans are far ahead of us. We've lost our technological edge. The federal government needs to get involved in a positive way [if U.S. energy companies want] to remain competitive in the global marketplace. Solar is here. We ought to be making more aggressive investments there. In Vermont, the standard I supported is that every additional megawatt we use from now until 2010 must be renewable. On a federal level, I would set a standard of 15 percent renewables by 2010 and 20 percent by 2020 or higher -- maybe 25 percent. We can do that.
Grist: Wow -- 15 percent by 2010! Right now we have less than 2 percent non-hydro renewables on a national scale, so how would you get us from 2 percent to 15 percent in seven years?
Dean: Wind and solar.
Grist: Yes, but what policies would you put in place to so aggressively develop the wind and solar capacity?
Dean: First, improved tax credits, buy-down programs, net-metering laws, interconnection standards, and all that. But also, direct federal aid to construction of transmission lines. One of the problems is that we have this huge wind resource in the middle of the country that can't be used because there's not adequate transmission to places like Minneapolis, Denver, and Chicago.
Senator Kerry to Propose Democratic Alternative Energy Plan
Plan would provide incentives for increased use of wind,solar,geothermal, as well as increased fuel efficiency for automobiles and light trucks.
JOHN KERRY
Source: Washington Post
[Jan 22, 2002]
The leading Senate foe of the Bush administration's energy plan, Sen. John F. Kerry (D-Mass.), will propose a Democratic alternative today based on higher fuel efficiency standards, tax incentives for new energy sources and a target of 20 percent reliance on alternative and renewable fuels by the year 2020.
Kerry, a likely presidential candidate in 2004, will seek to tie the administration's energy proposal to the disgraced Enron Corp., according to an advance draft of Kerry's remarks, scheduled for delivery to the Center for National Policy today.
The administration has said executives from Enron, now in bankruptcy proceedings, had six meetings with the White House energy task force.
"Old thinking passed through the doors of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue far more often and easily than new thinking," according to the draft remarks. "Exxon Mobil, Enron orChevron enjoyed an access bonanza at the expense of consumers and state-of-the-art environmental technology manufacturers. The process and its results stand as a monument to the difficulty of forcing industry and institutional change."
Kerry has threatened to keep Bush's proposal, particularly a provision calling for drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in Alaska, from coming to a vote in the Senate. The plan, drafted by Vice President Cheney's energy task force, has already been approved by the House.
Bush is expected to mention his energy proposal as he travels today to Charleston, W.Va., to speak at a machinery company.
"A comprehensive energy plan, as the president proposed last spring, and the House passed in a bipartisan fashion, is important to our national security and job creation," said Taylor Gross, a White House spokesman. "We are pleased that others now recognize the importance of what the president previously proposed."
Kerry argues that "if we enact the entire Bush energy plan, we will find ourselves 20 years from now more dependent on foreign oil than we are today." He proposes a variety of tax credits and incentives to increase domestic alternative and renewable energy sources such as wind, solar and geothermal to 20 percent of production in 18 years.
Kerry also will call for raising corporate average fuel economy requirements for auto manufacturers "as far and fast as we can," but does not mention a specific target.
The senator also favors tax incentives to speed production of hybrid-fuel engines and to develop hydrogen fuel cells. Kerry will call for "reinvesting" in public transit and rail and promoting biofuels and ethanol as oil alternatives. Ethanol support is a crucial political issue in Iowa, which holds the first caucus during the presidential primary season.
Kerry also will suggest "significantly increased" tax incentives for business and home energy efficiency, beyond those now contemplated. He shares the Bush administration interest in making a cleaner form of coal, and he supports federal assistance for a natural gas pipeline from Alaska to the Midwest.
08-03-2003 12:45 PM ET (US)
In response to Michael's question, both Howard Dean and John Kerry have set ambitious targets for the amount of our energy that should come from renewable sources, and both favor conservation through raising the milesper gallon our nation's fleet of automobiles get.
Both the Dean and Kerry energy plans are visionary and future-focused rather than the "gobble up all the oil we can even if it means drilling in National Parks and invading foreign lands" plan that seems to pass for energy policy today.
As for wind power, the newer model wind turbines are much less detrimental to migratory birds than they used to be so that isn't much of an issue anymore for most environmentalists.
HOWARD DEAN
Source: Grist magazine interview
Grist: What is your vision for America's energy plan?
Dean: I want renewables. Wind is here. The Europeans are far ahead of us. We've lost our technological edge. The federal government needs to get involved in a positive way [if U.S. energy companies want] to remain competitive in the global marketplace. Solar is here. We ought to be making more aggressive investments there. In Vermont, the standard I supported is that every additional megawatt we use from now until 2010 must be renewable. On a federal level, I would set a standard of 15 percent renewables by 2010 and 20 percent by 2020 or higher -- maybe 25 percent. We can do that.
Grist: Wow -- 15 percent by 2010! Right now we have less than 2 percent non-hydro renewables on a national scale, so how would you get us from 2 percent to 15 percent in seven years?
Dean: Wind and solar.
Grist: Yes, but what policies would you put in place to so aggressively develop the wind and solar capacity?
Dean: First, improved tax credits, buy-down programs, net-metering laws, interconnection standards, and all that. But also, direct federal aid to construction of transmission lines. One of the problems is that we have this huge wind resource in the middle of the country that can't be used because there's not adequate transmission to places like Minneapolis, Denver, and Chicago.
Senator Kerry to Propose Democratic Alternative Energy Plan
Plan would provide incentives for increased use of wind,solar,geothermal, as well as increased fuel efficiency for automobiles and light trucks.
JOHN KERRY
Source: Washington Post
[Jan 22, 2002]
The leading Senate foe of the Bush administration's energy plan, Sen. John F. Kerry (D-Mass.), will propose a Democratic alternative today based on higher fuel efficiency standards, tax incentives for new energy sources and a target of 20 percent reliance on alternative and renewable fuels by the year 2020.
Kerry, a likely presidential candidate in 2004, will seek to tie the administration's energy proposal to the disgraced Enron Corp., according to an advance draft of Kerry's remarks, scheduled for delivery to the Center for National Policy today.
The administration has said executives from Enron, now in bankruptcy proceedings, had six meetings with the White House energy task force.
"Old thinking passed through the doors of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue far more often and easily than new thinking," according to the draft remarks. "Exxon Mobil, Enron orChevron enjoyed an access bonanza at the expense of consumers and state-of-the-art environmental technology manufacturers. The process and its results stand as a monument to the difficulty of forcing industry and institutional change."
Kerry has threatened to keep Bush's proposal, particularly a provision calling for drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in Alaska, from coming to a vote in the Senate. The plan, drafted by Vice President Cheney's energy task force, has already been approved by the House.
Bush is expected to mention his energy proposal as he travels today to Charleston, W.Va., to speak at a machinery company.
"A comprehensive energy plan, as the president proposed last spring, and the House passed in a bipartisan fashion, is important to our national security and job creation," said Taylor Gross, a White House spokesman. "We are pleased that others now recognize the importance of what the president previously proposed."
Kerry argues that "if we enact the entire Bush energy plan, we will find ourselves 20 years from now more dependent on foreign oil than we are today." He proposes a variety of tax credits and incentives to increase domestic alternative and renewable energy sources such as wind, solar and geothermal to 20 percent of production in 18 years.
Kerry also will call for raising corporate average fuel economy requirements for auto manufacturers "as far and fast as we can," but does not mention a specific target.
The senator also favors tax incentives to speed production of hybrid-fuel engines and to develop hydrogen fuel cells. Kerry will call for "reinvesting" in public transit and rail and promoting biofuels and ethanol as oil alternatives. Ethanol support is a crucial political issue in Iowa, which holds the first caucus during the presidential primary season.
Kerry also will suggest "significantly increased" tax incentives for business and home energy efficiency, beyond those now contemplated. He shares the Bush administration interest in making a cleaner form of coal, and he supports federal assistance for a natural gas pipeline from Alaska to the Midwest.
sindhu kumar 220
08-03-2003 12:48 PM ET (US)
i like the idea of solar and wind powered energy resources.
08-03-2003 12:48 PM ET (US)
i like the idea of solar and wind powered energy resources.
Ann Stewart 221
08-03-2003 12:49 PM ET (US)
We'll do Jen.
Sindhu you should fit right in to all my discussion than.
Lysa and Keith I hope you saw the comments page too. I've been trying to add your comments everyday. If any of you get a new and updated article bring it to my attention like Patti has done, and I may post it on the current news page by the candidate it refers to.
Thanks for the info
I just got back from Dean’s Blog and he made the cover of a lot of major magazines this week. I may post that on the current news page for Dean.
08-03-2003 12:49 PM ET (US)
We'll do Jen.
Sindhu you should fit right in to all my discussion than.
Lysa and Keith I hope you saw the comments page too. I've been trying to add your comments everyday. If any of you get a new and updated article bring it to my attention like Patti has done, and I may post it on the current news page by the candidate it refers to.
Thanks for the info
I just got back from Dean’s Blog and he made the cover of a lot of major magazines this week. I may post that on the current news page for Dean.
Alison Brown 222
08-03-2003 12:51 PM ET (US)
Keith,
Bush's pledge to help fight AIDs in Africa is certainly a good move, and I support it. Look at the numbers - he wants to give $15 billion over about 5 years in aid. Great! BUT depending on where you look for the information, the continuing military action in Iraq is costing the US $5 billion or much, much more every MONTH. I see this as a major flaw in his priorities, especially when you consider that the AIDs money has not yet been approved by Congress and will probably be cut down before it passes. He is spending money that could be much better used at home or internationally to fund a war that many people didn't want in the first place, and that he misled the country into supporting.
08-03-2003 12:51 PM ET (US)
Keith,
Bush's pledge to help fight AIDs in Africa is certainly a good move, and I support it. Look at the numbers - he wants to give $15 billion over about 5 years in aid. Great! BUT depending on where you look for the information, the continuing military action in Iraq is costing the US $5 billion or much, much more every MONTH. I see this as a major flaw in his priorities, especially when you consider that the AIDs money has not yet been approved by Congress and will probably be cut down before it passes. He is spending money that could be much better used at home or internationally to fund a war that many people didn't want in the first place, and that he misled the country into supporting.
Ann Stewart 223
08-03-2003 12:54 PM ET (US)
From Dean’s blog:
Howard Dean makes the covers of this week's Time and Newsweek, as well as the cover (in the upper left) of U.S. News & World Report. This is absolutely incredible news. Never before, this early in a primary race-- before a single vote has been cast-- has a candidate made the cover of all three major newsweeklies. On top of the Texas ad and tomorrow night's appearance on Larry King, millions of Americans will be talking about Howard Dean this week and learning about him for the first time. Join them in this great American conversation. Tell your friends and colleagues why you support Howard Dean.
08-03-2003 12:54 PM ET (US)
From Dean’s blog:
Howard Dean makes the covers of this week's Time and Newsweek, as well as the cover (in the upper left) of U.S. News & World Report. This is absolutely incredible news. Never before, this early in a primary race-- before a single vote has been cast-- has a candidate made the cover of all three major newsweeklies. On top of the Texas ad and tomorrow night's appearance on Larry King, millions of Americans will be talking about Howard Dean this week and learning about him for the first time. Join them in this great American conversation. Tell your friends and colleagues why you support Howard Dean.
sindhu kumar 224
08-03-2003 12:57 PM ET (US)
alyson is right. bush did say that he would be giving money for AIDS organziations in South Africa. i certainly applaud him for that. i also like what he has done by signing the nurse reinvestment act. i still think that he should allocate more money for stem cell research instead of having the 64 stem cell lines that are already in place. i think that is part of the reason why most of hollywood is not supporting him. you have a few handful of actors such as arnold schwartznagger and bruce willis who are republicans in tinseltown.
08-03-2003 12:57 PM ET (US)
alyson is right. bush did say that he would be giving money for AIDS organziations in South Africa. i certainly applaud him for that. i also like what he has done by signing the nurse reinvestment act. i still think that he should allocate more money for stem cell research instead of having the 64 stem cell lines that are already in place. i think that is part of the reason why most of hollywood is not supporting him. you have a few handful of actors such as arnold schwartznagger and bruce willis who are republicans in tinseltown.
Alison Brown 225
08-03-2003 12:59 PM ET (US)
Jennifer,
You are right that no current Democrat candidate is "pro-life." Kucinich has a long anti-abortion record (he only received a 10% rating from Planned Parenthood), but he changed his position completely a few months ago and will hopefully have the integrity to stick to that.
If abortion is a major issue for you, and it sounds like it is, perhaps it would be helpful to look at the ways that the number of abortions in this country can be decreased. By giving women easy access to birth control and education about how to use it effectively, the number of unwanted pregnancies can be greatly reduced. However, the candidate you currently support (Bush) is in favor of abstinence-only sex education in schools, which sounds nice to conservatives and religious folk, but has actually been shown to INCREASE the rate of unwanted pregnancies among teenagers who take part in such programs. Abortion is very unlikely to be outlawed no matter who is elected president, but you can do your part to see that it is no longer needed. I know that Dean is in favor of proper sex ed and birth control (as a doctor, he is very knowledgable about health issues), and I would assume that the other Democrats in the race are as well.
08-03-2003 12:59 PM ET (US)
Jennifer,
You are right that no current Democrat candidate is "pro-life." Kucinich has a long anti-abortion record (he only received a 10% rating from Planned Parenthood), but he changed his position completely a few months ago and will hopefully have the integrity to stick to that.
If abortion is a major issue for you, and it sounds like it is, perhaps it would be helpful to look at the ways that the number of abortions in this country can be decreased. By giving women easy access to birth control and education about how to use it effectively, the number of unwanted pregnancies can be greatly reduced. However, the candidate you currently support (Bush) is in favor of abstinence-only sex education in schools, which sounds nice to conservatives and religious folk, but has actually been shown to INCREASE the rate of unwanted pregnancies among teenagers who take part in such programs. Abortion is very unlikely to be outlawed no matter who is elected president, but you can do your part to see that it is no longer needed. I know that Dean is in favor of proper sex ed and birth control (as a doctor, he is very knowledgable about health issues), and I would assume that the other Democrats in the race are as well.
Ann Stewart 226
08-03-2003 01:04 PM ET (US)
Sindhu
Did you read what I posted about Arnold on my blog? I'll repost it incase you didn't see it.
Arnold in Office?
Rumors are flying around that Prettyboy Arnold Schwarzenegger may be planning to run for office in California. CNN’s anchor Candy Crowley stated this idea would be delicious. I guess I would say I have to agree. It would be interesting. How would you feel about the Terminator being a Governor or President in the future? Do you think it would be good for our country?
Stranger things have happened in the political world. Not everybody in the world believed Jesse Ventura would make it to political office either, or who ever thought Sonny Bono would have a chance in politics? So it is not impossible, considering President Regan was once an actor, maybe Arnold has a chance. I myself would like to see more of the little man, who is unknown to the public, get a chance at political runs for office, but all should understand it is not a popularity contest. It is important to choose the person you believe will do the best job for the people of the community, state or country. It would defiantly be wrong to choose someone, because you enjoyed his movies. I don’t know if Arnold’s over famous, over publicized life would help him or hurt him in a run for office, but I would think it would have a negative impact on people who believe you should vote for someone who seriously supports the issues the general public really cares about. Considering the general population really doesn’t know, a whole lot about what Schwarzenegger believes in or supports on political issue, many people right now could say his run for any public office would look like a joke.
08-03-2003 01:04 PM ET (US)
Sindhu
Did you read what I posted about Arnold on my blog? I'll repost it incase you didn't see it.
Arnold in Office?
Rumors are flying around that Prettyboy Arnold Schwarzenegger may be planning to run for office in California. CNN’s anchor Candy Crowley stated this idea would be delicious. I guess I would say I have to agree. It would be interesting. How would you feel about the Terminator being a Governor or President in the future? Do you think it would be good for our country?
Stranger things have happened in the political world. Not everybody in the world believed Jesse Ventura would make it to political office either, or who ever thought Sonny Bono would have a chance in politics? So it is not impossible, considering President Regan was once an actor, maybe Arnold has a chance. I myself would like to see more of the little man, who is unknown to the public, get a chance at political runs for office, but all should understand it is not a popularity contest. It is important to choose the person you believe will do the best job for the people of the community, state or country. It would defiantly be wrong to choose someone, because you enjoyed his movies. I don’t know if Arnold’s over famous, over publicized life would help him or hurt him in a run for office, but I would think it would have a negative impact on people who believe you should vote for someone who seriously supports the issues the general public really cares about. Considering the general population really doesn’t know, a whole lot about what Schwarzenegger believes in or supports on political issue, many people right now could say his run for any public office would look like a joke.
sindhu kumar 227
08-03-2003 01:05 PM ET (US)
hey anne: my comments section on my blogspot has disappeared. i need your help.
08-03-2003 01:05 PM ET (US)
hey anne: my comments section on my blogspot has disappeared. i need your help.
Ann Stewart 228
08-03-2003 01:12 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-03-2003 01:15 PM
Ok no problem I will take care if it. Just give me alittle time.
Does anybody think Arnold has a chance at winning if he runs for office?
08-03-2003 01:12 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-03-2003 01:15 PM
Ok no problem I will take care if it. Just give me alittle time.
Does anybody think Arnold has a chance at winning if he runs for office?
Ann Stewart 229
08-03-2003 01:35 PM ET (US)
Sindhu
I just reinstaled your comment boxes. All is good. Are you still not sure who to vote for?
08-03-2003 01:35 PM ET (US)
Sindhu
I just reinstaled your comment boxes. All is good. Are you still not sure who to vote for?
Lysa 230
08-03-2003 01:39 PM ET (US)
Ann,
Comments page? err, I don't know where that is or if it is something I have already been looking at. I'm reading as fast as I can, but I'm overloaded today with all the news on Dean. Not that it's a bad thing, just wish I had more time! As it is I spent two hours more than I have today just reading. Must get to work :) Must pull myself away from computer...
Kudos to Alyson about commentary on the abortion issue. I couldn't agree more that other means and avenues need to be addressed far more than they are currently. As well as addressing overpopulation and adoption issues. Too many unwanted babies is a sad thing. Running out of resources for all is another tragedy.
08-03-2003 01:39 PM ET (US)
Ann,
Comments page? err, I don't know where that is or if it is something I have already been looking at. I'm reading as fast as I can, but I'm overloaded today with all the news on Dean. Not that it's a bad thing, just wish I had more time! As it is I spent two hours more than I have today just reading. Must get to work :) Must pull myself away from computer...
Kudos to Alyson about commentary on the abortion issue. I couldn't agree more that other means and avenues need to be addressed far more than they are currently. As well as addressing overpopulation and adoption issues. Too many unwanted babies is a sad thing. Running out of resources for all is another tragedy.
Ann Stewart 231
08-03-2003 01:58 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-03-2003 01:59 PM
Lysa thanks for coming in today.
I hope you all come back espeically if you have question you want to know about the election. Or your job here might be to answer the questions of other people if you are more up to what's going on in the political world. Any I thank all you for checking in today.
I have a question for Keith
When does the next Zogby poll come out and how accurate do you think it is?
08-03-2003 01:58 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-03-2003 01:59 PM
Lysa thanks for coming in today.
I hope you all come back espeically if you have question you want to know about the election. Or your job here might be to answer the questions of other people if you are more up to what's going on in the political world. Any I thank all you for checking in today.
I have a question for Keith
When does the next Zogby poll come out and how accurate do you think it is?
Patti Ferschke 232
08-03-2003 02:10 PM ET (US)
I'M still hanging with KERRY on the environment..he got 96%from the LEAGUE OF CONSERVATION VOTERS,that's the highest ever given to any other candidate from the get-go.And I'm still hanging with him on all the issues. Jennifer, you need to read some previous threads on BUSH.The facts are out there on the lies and deceptions,and if that's not enough,he's a thief. He stole the last election and did not win the popular vote.He says one thing then does another.We have lost 6 million jobs,our security has never been more at risk than it is now,and we have an out of control budget deficit that will continue to climb. We are NOT winning the war on terroism as he has NO plan.He uses rhetoric that appeals to mainstreamers,but has lost international respect around the world. 911 was an excuse for BUSH and his gangsters to procede with their oil agenda..that's HIS plan to keep us safe, and all the while he's protecting his OWN interests and agenda! If he continues down this path we will become a nation of the "Republican guard",as his appointments to the supreme court will make our lives un-equal in every respect.It depends where you're coming from,but we were sold a world of goods re: this war! Where are the weapons,where is SADDAM?? Bin-Laden is still on the loose,and our airports are not secure. Our environment needs a real clean-up and why do you think we're drinking all this bottled water? Our military is compromised as never before ,and his plan is to decrease beefits from those that have served ,and will continue to serve this nation for so many or how many more years, as that's where he's posistioned us ! The military is composed of minorities,as BUSH has nothing more to offer them.These are the people we need to fight for,not the wealthy ,that got this huge tax break. That tax break is where BUSH is getting his huge benfit to get re-elected as those people will donate that money back to him! Not grim enough yet,there's more.Our children have never been more at risk..he just left 13 million of them behind. I want my kids to succeed,and that means good schools,good teachers,NO vouchers or at least a discussion about vouchers before they're imposed as the norm, and smaller class size. We have a critical nursing shortage in this country,no health care plan that works "for the people", 43 million un-insured citizens, and a senior drug prescription plan that will cost them more than they pay now! If you're concerned about your safety {and you'd better be },we need a leader that is well versed on these issues and it's not GWB! The roots of war is failed diplomacy ,BUSH is a failed diplomat ! His very words"BRING EM'ON",was indeed a threat to our security,and terrorists will "bring em'on"! I respect your views on abortion,but it's my belief it's still a woman's right to choose,and you know what..so does "W"'S mom! I could never make that choice for myself,but that is me, as I am not walking in the shoes of other women that need to make that most compelling decesion of their life. For sure we don't want to go back to the days of back alley abortionists, and if left to "W" we will go there! It will be interesting to [perhaps} find out just
what was the "intelligence" on 911 or what did "W" know and when did he know it,and exactly were those 16 words that mis-led this nation into a war a misclaimer to our defense and democracy ? Those questions will probably never be answered if BUSH is allowed to continue this Presidency. "We the people" deserve better,and we need to expect more from those that serve "we the people".
08-03-2003 02:10 PM ET (US)
I'M still hanging with KERRY on the environment..he got 96%from the LEAGUE OF CONSERVATION VOTERS,that's the highest ever given to any other candidate from the get-go.And I'm still hanging with him on all the issues. Jennifer, you need to read some previous threads on BUSH.The facts are out there on the lies and deceptions,and if that's not enough,he's a thief. He stole the last election and did not win the popular vote.He says one thing then does another.We have lost 6 million jobs,our security has never been more at risk than it is now,and we have an out of control budget deficit that will continue to climb. We are NOT winning the war on terroism as he has NO plan.He uses rhetoric that appeals to mainstreamers,but has lost international respect around the world. 911 was an excuse for BUSH and his gangsters to procede with their oil agenda..that's HIS plan to keep us safe, and all the while he's protecting his OWN interests and agenda! If he continues down this path we will become a nation of the "Republican guard",as his appointments to the supreme court will make our lives un-equal in every respect.It depends where you're coming from,but we were sold a world of goods re: this war! Where are the weapons,where is SADDAM?? Bin-Laden is still on the loose,and our airports are not secure. Our environment needs a real clean-up and why do you think we're drinking all this bottled water? Our military is compromised as never before ,and his plan is to decrease beefits from those that have served ,and will continue to serve this nation for so many or how many more years, as that's where he's posistioned us ! The military is composed of minorities,as BUSH has nothing more to offer them.These are the people we need to fight for,not the wealthy ,that got this huge tax break. That tax break is where BUSH is getting his huge benfit to get re-elected as those people will donate that money back to him! Not grim enough yet,there's more.Our children have never been more at risk..he just left 13 million of them behind. I want my kids to succeed,and that means good schools,good teachers,NO vouchers or at least a discussion about vouchers before they're imposed as the norm, and smaller class size. We have a critical nursing shortage in this country,no health care plan that works "for the people", 43 million un-insured citizens, and a senior drug prescription plan that will cost them more than they pay now! If you're concerned about your safety {and you'd better be },we need a leader that is well versed on these issues and it's not GWB! The roots of war is failed diplomacy ,BUSH is a failed diplomat ! His very words"BRING EM'ON",was indeed a threat to our security,and terrorists will "bring em'on"! I respect your views on abortion,but it's my belief it's still a woman's right to choose,and you know what..so does "W"'S mom! I could never make that choice for myself,but that is me, as I am not walking in the shoes of other women that need to make that most compelling decesion of their life. For sure we don't want to go back to the days of back alley abortionists, and if left to "W" we will go there! It will be interesting to [perhaps} find out just
what was the "intelligence" on 911 or what did "W" know and when did he know it,and exactly were those 16 words that mis-led this nation into a war a misclaimer to our defense and democracy ? Those questions will probably never be answered if BUSH is allowed to continue this Presidency. "We the people" deserve better,and we need to expect more from those that serve "we the people".
Ann Stewart 233
08-03-2003 02:20 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-03-2003 02:27 PM
Wow Patti
You know that will make the Kerry comment page and Bush's comment page too. I can't wait till this site hits the main engine searchers. It takes a few weeks but it should be out on the main searchers before the election gets here. You can write a book on the man Kerry, Patti. I read on the internet Kerry did write a book on the war. Do you know about it or did you read it?
08-03-2003 02:20 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-03-2003 02:27 PM
Wow Patti
You know that will make the Kerry comment page and Bush's comment page too. I can't wait till this site hits the main engine searchers. It takes a few weeks but it should be out on the main searchers before the election gets here. You can write a book on the man Kerry, Patti. I read on the internet Kerry did write a book on the war. Do you know about it or did you read it?
Jim Witkins 234
08-03-2003 02:34 PM ET (US)
Hi Everyone.
I've been backing John Kerry for many months now. I'm the Founder of Independents For Kerry (www.independentsforkerry.org)
I'm a member of the Sierra Club and UNA USA among other things. John Kerry has consistently led the fight for the environment and the multilateral use of the US Military along side the UN and our friends and allies.
I hope people research Kerry's statements on the issues, before relying on hearsay from others. He's by far the best hope the Dems have of beating Bush. He's well respected by Democrats and can appeal to Independents, Greens, and Progressives.
Here are some articles your readers may find useful.
John Kerry's Statement on Iraq Before the War
http://www.independentsforkerry.org/uploads/media/kerry-iraq.html
Howard Dean vs John Kerry: Part II
http://www.independentsforkerry.org/indepe...php?category_id=836
Kerry on the Economy
http://www.independentsforkerry.org/upload.../kerry_economy.html
08-03-2003 02:34 PM ET (US)
Hi Everyone.
I've been backing John Kerry for many months now. I'm the Founder of Independents For Kerry (www.independentsforkerry.org)
I'm a member of the Sierra Club and UNA USA among other things. John Kerry has consistently led the fight for the environment and the multilateral use of the US Military along side the UN and our friends and allies.
I hope people research Kerry's statements on the issues, before relying on hearsay from others. He's by far the best hope the Dems have of beating Bush. He's well respected by Democrats and can appeal to Independents, Greens, and Progressives.
Here are some articles your readers may find useful.
John Kerry's Statement on Iraq Before the War
http://www.independentsforkerry.org/uploads/media/kerry-iraq.html
Howard Dean vs John Kerry: Part II
http://www.independentsforkerry.org/indepe...php?category_id=836
Kerry on the Economy
http://www.independentsforkerry.org/upload.../kerry_economy.html
Ann Stewart 235
08-03-2003 02:39 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-03-2003 02:41 PM
Thank you Jim
I will post some of that on the current news page for Kerry.
Welcome to the 2004 online Election debate. I'm glad you found us. I got your email. Can you post this on the news Blog you work on?
08-03-2003 02:39 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-03-2003 02:41 PM
Thank you Jim
I will post some of that on the current news page for Kerry.
Welcome to the 2004 online Election debate. I'm glad you found us. I got your email. Can you post this on the news Blog you work on?
Wayne in Missouri 236
08-03-2003 02:50 PM ET (US)
A new poll came out today showing that Howard Dean now leads in Gephardt's neighboring state of Iowa. Thought this might be of interest..
Dean 23%
Gephardt 21%
Kerry 14%
Lieberman 10%
http://desmoinesregister.com/news/stories/c4789004/21906001.html
08-03-2003 02:50 PM ET (US)
A new poll came out today showing that Howard Dean now leads in Gephardt's neighboring state of Iowa. Thought this might be of interest..
Dean 23%
Gephardt 21%
Kerry 14%
Lieberman 10%
http://desmoinesregister.com/news/stories/c4789004/21906001.html
Ann Stewart 237
08-03-2003 03:12 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-03-2003 03:12 PM
Wayne and Jim
I transfered both of your Articles to the news pages. Thanks for the current news on the candidates. I am trying to keep all updated on the current news. So you are all helping me.
Ladies and Gentlemen I will be gone for a while, but I will be back tonight to transfer your comments to the comment pages. Remember when I transfer comments they are almost exactly how you posted them. I have put some of them together that were on the same Candidate to save space, but I believe the general public that’s reads your comments will understand what we are trying to say at this on line debate.
08-03-2003 03:12 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-03-2003 03:12 PM
Wayne and Jim
I transfered both of your Articles to the news pages. Thanks for the current news on the candidates. I am trying to keep all updated on the current news. So you are all helping me.
Ladies and Gentlemen I will be gone for a while, but I will be back tonight to transfer your comments to the comment pages. Remember when I transfer comments they are almost exactly how you posted them. I have put some of them together that were on the same Candidate to save space, but I believe the general public that’s reads your comments will understand what we are trying to say at this on line debate.
Alison Brown 238
08-03-2003 03:38 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-03-2003 03:41 PM
Jim,
I read the Kerry speech you linked, and he said some very intelligent and thoughtful things, many of which I agree with. He said, "Every nation has the right to act preemptively, if it faces an imminent and grave threat, for its self-defense under the standards of law. The threat we face today with Iraq does not meet that test yet." This makes perfect sense to me, as do his other arguments about pursuing all other possible courses first. But he still voted for the resolution that empowered Bush to attack Iraq. I don't get it. Very few senators had the courage to vote against the resolution when they knew it was premature, but Kerry was unfortunately not one of them. Now that the situation in Iraq has turned bad and public opinion in favor of the war is on the wane, he has come out with criticisms of Bush's military actions. This smacks of political opportunism to me.
I'm going to vote for Howard Dean because he stands firm on these important issues. He was virtually the only major elected official to to denounce Bush's war plans from the beginning. He signed Vermont's civil unions bill even though he knew it was almosts political suicide - according to today's article in Time magazine, he won re-election by only a 0.5% margin after that, and was forced to wear a bullet-proof vest while campaigning due to the numerous death threats he received. Did he back down? No. That's why I admire him.
08-03-2003 03:38 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-03-2003 03:41 PM
Jim,
I read the Kerry speech you linked, and he said some very intelligent and thoughtful things, many of which I agree with. He said, "Every nation has the right to act preemptively, if it faces an imminent and grave threat, for its self-defense under the standards of law. The threat we face today with Iraq does not meet that test yet." This makes perfect sense to me, as do his other arguments about pursuing all other possible courses first. But he still voted for the resolution that empowered Bush to attack Iraq. I don't get it. Very few senators had the courage to vote against the resolution when they knew it was premature, but Kerry was unfortunately not one of them. Now that the situation in Iraq has turned bad and public opinion in favor of the war is on the wane, he has come out with criticisms of Bush's military actions. This smacks of political opportunism to me.
I'm going to vote for Howard Dean because he stands firm on these important issues. He was virtually the only major elected official to to denounce Bush's war plans from the beginning. He signed Vermont's civil unions bill even though he knew it was almosts political suicide - according to today's article in Time magazine, he won re-election by only a 0.5% margin after that, and was forced to wear a bullet-proof vest while campaigning due to the numerous death threats he received. Did he back down? No. That's why I admire him.
Keith Brekhus 239
08-03-2003 03:45 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-03-2003 03:46 PM
If Dean beats Gephardt in Iowa, I think Gephardt is through. It might also hurt Kerry in New Hampshire because Dean's Iowa victory would get lots of media attention and New Hampshire undecideds might hop on his bandwagon.
I'm not sure when the next national Zogby poll comes out. As for its accuracy--its hard to say because so so many voters are undecided still so a lead of say 14% to 12% doesn't mean much if 35% of voters are undecided. In addition, its harder to gauge who a "likely caucus or primary voter" is than who will vote in a presidential election.
In 2000 Zogby polls showed Bush winning the New Hampshire primary, but then a lot of independents who weren't expected to vote in the primary showed up and voted for McCain and McCain beat Bush in New Hampshire.
The polls aren't useless---you can see who is gaining ground (Dean) by comparing several polls and looking for trends and such, but a poll in August probably can't tell you who will win next year.
08-03-2003 03:45 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-03-2003 03:46 PM
If Dean beats Gephardt in Iowa, I think Gephardt is through. It might also hurt Kerry in New Hampshire because Dean's Iowa victory would get lots of media attention and New Hampshire undecideds might hop on his bandwagon.
I'm not sure when the next national Zogby poll comes out. As for its accuracy--its hard to say because so so many voters are undecided still so a lead of say 14% to 12% doesn't mean much if 35% of voters are undecided. In addition, its harder to gauge who a "likely caucus or primary voter" is than who will vote in a presidential election.
In 2000 Zogby polls showed Bush winning the New Hampshire primary, but then a lot of independents who weren't expected to vote in the primary showed up and voted for McCain and McCain beat Bush in New Hampshire.
The polls aren't useless---you can see who is gaining ground (Dean) by comparing several polls and looking for trends and such, but a poll in August probably can't tell you who will win next year.
Patti Ferschke 240
08-03-2003 04:46 PM ET (US)
Jim,thank you for coming in here today..I need some support for Kerry,but I believe the debates will set him far ahead of the others and that means BUSH too! We must ALL remember we are in the early throws of polling,and anything can and will happen. Bush has a real problem right now as he's moving to the "center", and the "right" will challenge him on the issues of their agendas...so you see he,{BUSH}has even done it to his own company! But we all know BUSH has led us for the past 2-1/2years as ,say one thing do another President. That's where he loses the "credibility" gap with all voters, and that's the base I think ,"we got em". He will be a lousey debater with KERRY or Dean,but don't think for one minute Carl Rove and Karen Hughes and CO. are coaching him and have their mega speaches in place.That's what this "vacation" is all about! It's a good thing he got a clean bill of health as he's going to need it to deal with the bad deal, he's given to ALL Americans!.I agree with Jim's assessment that DEAN works the crowd,and he does,but there's a different "command of respect" when KERRY speaks. One of the major cable nets yesterday reported:"Dean's got the fire,but he does NOT have the vision,and he's not clear on foreign policy." I believe he's working on that,but certainly I will go with KERRY who is certainly more "seasoned" as that's what it's going to take to win this political war , and the war on terrorism. WE need to generate the enthusiasm to build this road map to peace,KERRY delivers on that issue.When BUSH declared he's "a uniter and not a divider" we for sure have him on that one issue alone! When he won the election the country was split 50/50 and BUSH has not done one thing to bring "we the people" together,but he did do a good job of the 911 "patriotism" rallying around the country as a whole. "We the people",will not and cannot fault him on that issue,but is does stop there. In my opinion, that's why so many,"we the people" still support him. But I know for a fact that, "we the people",need to take a good hard look at how we will win the peace,so we may move-on and build good fences,as good fences build good neighbors. It's also my belief that BUSH leads the way in
providing "we the people"in elaborating to our fears and not our strengths. What we do need is a leader that takes us from that fear to a place of leadership through sacrifice,and using out ingenuity to solve these problems, that support the roots of terrorism. That can only be done by "engagement",and that is a process that KEERY excels in and above ALL the candidates! I think if BIDEN anters the race ,the "playing field will be between the BIG three..DEAN,KERRY,BIDEN. If I had "my"
way, it would be A KERRY-BIDEN ticket or better yet..KERRY/McCAIN! That ticket ,"we the people ",would buy!
It's time to rally round and say what "we the people" want,and not be fooled ever again..our lives are way too precious to risk that! I have some other thoughts for a later post..PATTI
08-03-2003 04:46 PM ET (US)
Jim,thank you for coming in here today..I need some support for Kerry,but I believe the debates will set him far ahead of the others and that means BUSH too! We must ALL remember we are in the early throws of polling,and anything can and will happen. Bush has a real problem right now as he's moving to the "center", and the "right" will challenge him on the issues of their agendas...so you see he,{BUSH}has even done it to his own company! But we all know BUSH has led us for the past 2-1/2years as ,say one thing do another President. That's where he loses the "credibility" gap with all voters, and that's the base I think ,"we got em". He will be a lousey debater with KERRY or Dean,but don't think for one minute Carl Rove and Karen Hughes and CO. are coaching him and have their mega speaches in place.That's what this "vacation" is all about! It's a good thing he got a clean bill of health as he's going to need it to deal with the bad deal, he's given to ALL Americans!.I agree with Jim's assessment that DEAN works the crowd,and he does,but there's a different "command of respect" when KERRY speaks. One of the major cable nets yesterday reported:"Dean's got the fire,but he does NOT have the vision,and he's not clear on foreign policy." I believe he's working on that,but certainly I will go with KERRY who is certainly more "seasoned" as that's what it's going to take to win this political war , and the war on terrorism. WE need to generate the enthusiasm to build this road map to peace,KERRY delivers on that issue.When BUSH declared he's "a uniter and not a divider" we for sure have him on that one issue alone! When he won the election the country was split 50/50 and BUSH has not done one thing to bring "we the people" together,but he did do a good job of the 911 "patriotism" rallying around the country as a whole. "We the people",will not and cannot fault him on that issue,but is does stop there. In my opinion, that's why so many,"we the people" still support him. But I know for a fact that, "we the people",need to take a good hard look at how we will win the peace,so we may move-on and build good fences,as good fences build good neighbors. It's also my belief that BUSH leads the way in
providing "we the people"in elaborating to our fears and not our strengths. What we do need is a leader that takes us from that fear to a place of leadership through sacrifice,and using out ingenuity to solve these problems, that support the roots of terrorism. That can only be done by "engagement",and that is a process that KEERY excels in and above ALL the candidates! I think if BIDEN anters the race ,the "playing field will be between the BIG three..DEAN,KERRY,BIDEN. If I had "my"
way, it would be A KERRY-BIDEN ticket or better yet..KERRY/McCAIN! That ticket ,"we the people ",would buy!
It's time to rally round and say what "we the people" want,and not be fooled ever again..our lives are way too precious to risk that! I have some other thoughts for a later post..PATTI
Roger Dale 241
08-03-2003 05:29 PM ET (US)
Abortion is murder. I don't care if it is 1st term, 2nd term, 3rd term or what? It's murder, and George Bush is the only one who is against abortion, and homosexuality. He's the only one who will stand up for what is right. I stand by President George Bush. He is a man of honor. He needs to serve again. Or we may get another no morals President like Clinton was. My vote is for Bush.
08-03-2003 05:29 PM ET (US)
Abortion is murder. I don't care if it is 1st term, 2nd term, 3rd term or what? It's murder, and George Bush is the only one who is against abortion, and homosexuality. He's the only one who will stand up for what is right. I stand by President George Bush. He is a man of honor. He needs to serve again. Or we may get another no morals President like Clinton was. My vote is for Bush.
Patti Ferschke 242
08-03-2003 05:43 PM ET (US)
To Allison;I say read one of the previous threads as to why KERRY supported this war as it's the same reason "we the people" supported it..... "clear and imminent danger" ,said the commander-in-chief! How could anyone in the Senate or House NOT support that war when we were still fed the fear factor that BUSH and the media presented to us,and full well-knowing "IF" another event indeed happened,how could those folks running in the election possibly have a debate on that issue ?? So much easier for DEAN to say as he's an "outsider",and could say what he wanted to say. So I stand in good light with the DEAN camp in respect to the "outsider",being the winner. NO person was ever going to take him to task on that! I agree with you and I wrote the Senator and challenged him on this very issue,about the war.I also received a letter in return from the Senator. The thread explains why he did what he did ,and I don't want to write that whole thing again.It is in the thread.But what does continue to plague me is how ,"we the people" have never been more divided as a people,{other than the Civil war}.We split hairs ,large and small ,over one person's "rights" over anothers. It's gay-rights;civil rights;religious rights;women's rights;the list goes on and on. When will "we the people",see the outrage of our own inner conflicts,both personally,spiitually ,and intellectuully,to stand together,unite together,work together,...come together to a place that works for "all the people"? I say it will happen when a leader of this great nation reaches across the huge divide of those that work "for the people",that has that vision, to set a plan in motion that works for "ALL" people. My personal and spiritual belief systems tell me intuitively..that is about compromise!It's all about healing past wounds that run deeply in the hearts and souls of so many. That is why I am sticking to my NO compromise on JOHN KERRY! There is a book he has written about the war and another one to soon hit the press explaining what he will do for America. ..I'll get those titles in here soon so you may read them if you wish. I also know JOHN has a wife that women will love as she's a tremendous believer in women and all the issues surounding women,the environment,education..and kids,that will promote "engagement" and critical thinking ! This election is about allegience to change old thinking, and move on............that means jobs,taxing the right individuals and not the middle class and the poor;it means tax breaks for those who will sacrifice and try new ideas;it means being safe,taking care of our military better than ever before;and it means providing opportunities for those who have no hope of opportunity ,in the present climate of our times!..YOU GO JOHN KERRY !
08-03-2003 05:43 PM ET (US)
To Allison;I say read one of the previous threads as to why KERRY supported this war as it's the same reason "we the people" supported it..... "clear and imminent danger" ,said the commander-in-chief! How could anyone in the Senate or House NOT support that war when we were still fed the fear factor that BUSH and the media presented to us,and full well-knowing "IF" another event indeed happened,how could those folks running in the election possibly have a debate on that issue ?? So much easier for DEAN to say as he's an "outsider",and could say what he wanted to say. So I stand in good light with the DEAN camp in respect to the "outsider",being the winner. NO person was ever going to take him to task on that! I agree with you and I wrote the Senator and challenged him on this very issue,about the war.I also received a letter in return from the Senator. The thread explains why he did what he did ,and I don't want to write that whole thing again.It is in the thread.But what does continue to plague me is how ,"we the people" have never been more divided as a people,{other than the Civil war}.We split hairs ,large and small ,over one person's "rights" over anothers. It's gay-rights;civil rights;religious rights;women's rights;the list goes on and on. When will "we the people",see the outrage of our own inner conflicts,both personally,spiitually ,and intellectuully,to stand together,unite together,work together,...come together to a place that works for "all the people"? I say it will happen when a leader of this great nation reaches across the huge divide of those that work "for the people",that has that vision, to set a plan in motion that works for "ALL" people. My personal and spiritual belief systems tell me intuitively..that is about compromise!It's all about healing past wounds that run deeply in the hearts and souls of so many. That is why I am sticking to my NO compromise on JOHN KERRY! There is a book he has written about the war and another one to soon hit the press explaining what he will do for America. ..I'll get those titles in here soon so you may read them if you wish. I also know JOHN has a wife that women will love as she's a tremendous believer in women and all the issues surounding women,the environment,education..and kids,that will promote "engagement" and critical thinking ! This election is about allegience to change old thinking, and move on............that means jobs,taxing the right individuals and not the middle class and the poor;it means tax breaks for those who will sacrifice and try new ideas;it means being safe,taking care of our military better than ever before;and it means providing opportunities for those who have no hope of opportunity ,in the present climate of our times!..YOU GO JOHN KERRY !
Patti Ferschke 243
08-03-2003 05:51 PM ET (US)
Sorry Roger,I respect your view,however ..you my dear man have never walked in a woman's shoes. Nor have you ever walked in the shoes of a "gay" person . That is NOT a personal choice someone makes ,it is WHO they are,and we need to respect the "WHO" ! We are called to love individuals,to care for them..not judge them! Volunteer at an AIDS home,you will not only embrace them you will heal yourself of this predudice...May GOD blees you well!
08-03-2003 05:51 PM ET (US)
Sorry Roger,I respect your view,however ..you my dear man have never walked in a woman's shoes. Nor have you ever walked in the shoes of a "gay" person . That is NOT a personal choice someone makes ,it is WHO they are,and we need to respect the "WHO" ! We are called to love individuals,to care for them..not judge them! Volunteer at an AIDS home,you will not only embrace them you will heal yourself of this predudice...May GOD blees you well!
Brett 244
08-03-2003 06:17 PM ET (US)
Hello Everyone
I'm Brett Anthony. I voted for Bush the first time around, but I am a democrate. I feel like Bush is going to win again. He's got really popular over the last 4 years. I know he barely won last time, but this time he could win by a landside. I really don't want him to win. My view on him has changed. YOu see I really didn't vote for him because I thought he would be just a great president. Well lets face it he's not!!!!! I voted for him because I couldn't stand Al Gore. I thought Al Gore would be a shit President. Gore would have been even worst. I took the lower of 2 evils. I really don't know alot of the other men who are up against him, but I'm looking into it. I want to vote on the democrat side. I just want it to be the right person. I was hearing about Dean, from some friends. I liked that he was a doctor before he became a politican. I'm hoping he has a heart. I heard he was a for Peace. I don't want to go though another 4 years of Bush shoven lies of Weapons of Mass Destrution down our throats and telling other countries to "Bring It On"
08-03-2003 06:17 PM ET (US)
Hello Everyone
I'm Brett Anthony. I voted for Bush the first time around, but I am a democrate. I feel like Bush is going to win again. He's got really popular over the last 4 years. I know he barely won last time, but this time he could win by a landside. I really don't want him to win. My view on him has changed. YOu see I really didn't vote for him because I thought he would be just a great president. Well lets face it he's not!!!!! I voted for him because I couldn't stand Al Gore. I thought Al Gore would be a shit President. Gore would have been even worst. I took the lower of 2 evils. I really don't know alot of the other men who are up against him, but I'm looking into it. I want to vote on the democrat side. I just want it to be the right person. I was hearing about Dean, from some friends. I liked that he was a doctor before he became a politican. I'm hoping he has a heart. I heard he was a for Peace. I don't want to go though another 4 years of Bush shoven lies of Weapons of Mass Destrution down our throats and telling other countries to "Bring It On"
sindhu kumar 245
08-03-2003 06:30 PM ET (US)
i am leaning toward bush as of right now. come debate time amongst all the nine democrats and bush, i will vote for a democrat.
08-03-2003 06:30 PM ET (US)
i am leaning toward bush as of right now. come debate time amongst all the nine democrats and bush, i will vote for a democrat.
Jonathan in GA 246
08-03-2003 06:33 PM ET (US)
I see Bush as by far the worse of two evils.
My mother said, "If that Bush gets elected, we'll have a war or a recession or both."
"or both" is right on target.
The massive tax cuts haven't helped anything. Millions are out of work. Bush is a cro-magnon on social policy and is putting our fighting men and women in harm's way every single day.
People that expect a sweep of the Democratic "sacrificial lamb" will be sorely mistaken.
I don't think anyone expects California's 55 electoral vote, New York's 31, D.C.'s 3, Washington's 11, Oregon's 7, Minnesota's 10, Wisconsin's 10, Massachusetts' 12, Maine's 4, Vermont's 3, Connecticut's 7, Rhode Island's 4, New Jersey's 15, or Hawaii's 4 to go for Bush.
Add all those up and you have 176 electoral votes. Less than a hundred less than the Democrat would need to win.
Several other states (Illinois, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Florida, Maryland, Delaware, New Hampshire, Iowa) are competitive even this early. If the Dem carried all of those, he would win with a pretty sizable margin---286 electoral votes.
08-03-2003 06:33 PM ET (US)
I see Bush as by far the worse of two evils.
My mother said, "If that Bush gets elected, we'll have a war or a recession or both."
"or both" is right on target.
The massive tax cuts haven't helped anything. Millions are out of work. Bush is a cro-magnon on social policy and is putting our fighting men and women in harm's way every single day.
People that expect a sweep of the Democratic "sacrificial lamb" will be sorely mistaken.
I don't think anyone expects California's 55 electoral vote, New York's 31, D.C.'s 3, Washington's 11, Oregon's 7, Minnesota's 10, Wisconsin's 10, Massachusetts' 12, Maine's 4, Vermont's 3, Connecticut's 7, Rhode Island's 4, New Jersey's 15, or Hawaii's 4 to go for Bush.
Add all those up and you have 176 electoral votes. Less than a hundred less than the Democrat would need to win.
Several other states (Illinois, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Florida, Maryland, Delaware, New Hampshire, Iowa) are competitive even this early. If the Dem carried all of those, he would win with a pretty sizable margin---286 electoral votes.
Jonathan in GA 247
08-03-2003 06:37 PM ET (US)
As Americans, we have a responsibility to protect all people, gay or not, male or not, old or not.
As for the war....
John Kerry has done the worst job of any democrat in articulating our position.
If you are for the war, be consistently for the war. Embrace the weapons of mass destruction argument.
If you think there was NO imminent threat from Saddam, then side with Dean.
08-03-2003 06:37 PM ET (US)
As Americans, we have a responsibility to protect all people, gay or not, male or not, old or not.
As for the war....
John Kerry has done the worst job of any democrat in articulating our position.
If you are for the war, be consistently for the war. Embrace the weapons of mass destruction argument.
If you think there was NO imminent threat from Saddam, then side with Dean.
Jonathan in GA 248
08-03-2003 06:43 PM ET (US)
Keith,
You're right that it's too early to say who the nominee will be or even who the frontrunner is.
But to say that anyone except Dean has forward momentum is silly. All the positive headlines, the volunteer swell, the money swell, points to Dean as a frontrunner.
Is it just me, or am I tired of Senators running for President? Americans like GOVERNORS running for President.
People with executive experience.
In the modern era:
Carter (Governor)
Reagan (Governor)
Bush I (CIA guy, VP)
Clinton (Governor)
*Bush II (Governor)
I put an * by Bush II's name because he didn't win the popular vote.
But the fact remains that 4 of our last 5 presidents have been governors.
Joe Lieberman, John Kerry, John Edwards, Dick Gephardt, and possibly Joe Biden are out of touch with that reality.
08-03-2003 06:43 PM ET (US)
Keith,
You're right that it's too early to say who the nominee will be or even who the frontrunner is.
But to say that anyone except Dean has forward momentum is silly. All the positive headlines, the volunteer swell, the money swell, points to Dean as a frontrunner.
Is it just me, or am I tired of Senators running for President? Americans like GOVERNORS running for President.
People with executive experience.
In the modern era:
Carter (Governor)
Reagan (Governor)
Bush I (CIA guy, VP)
Clinton (Governor)
*Bush II (Governor)
I put an * by Bush II's name because he didn't win the popular vote.
But the fact remains that 4 of our last 5 presidents have been governors.
Joe Lieberman, John Kerry, John Edwards, Dick Gephardt, and possibly Joe Biden are out of touch with that reality.
Brett 249
08-03-2003 06:43 PM ET (US)
Someone said Bush's Dad was popular too and he lost against Clinton. I hope that happens again. I will vote Democrate too. If the Democrate side is not totally mess up. All the democratic side would have to be is fairly decent and they would get my vote. I'd like an honest politican if I could find one. Bush sure isn't one.
08-03-2003 06:43 PM ET (US)
Someone said Bush's Dad was popular too and he lost against Clinton. I hope that happens again. I will vote Democrate too. If the Democrate side is not totally mess up. All the democratic side would have to be is fairly decent and they would get my vote. I'd like an honest politican if I could find one. Bush sure isn't one.
Jonathan in GA 250
08-03-2003 06:43 PM ET (US)
I would vote for Hillary Clinton before I voted for George Bush. That shows the amount of disgust I have for W.
08-03-2003 06:43 PM ET (US)
I would vote for Hillary Clinton before I voted for George Bush. That shows the amount of disgust I have for W.
Jonathan in GA 251
08-03-2003 06:47 PM ET (US)
Brett, good to mention that.
George Bush I had popularity ratings of 90% right after the Persian Gulf War.
But the economy kept getting worse, Pat Buchanan won New Hampshire, Ross Perot sapped conservative votes, and a little-known governor named Bill Clinton won a huge electoral victory.
The economy now is the wost it has been in 30 years. Worse than Carter's economy (but less inflation.)
Bush continues to make our army the police force of the world, sending them to Liberia now.
I hope the bum loses his home state of Texas in 2004.
08-03-2003 06:47 PM ET (US)
Brett, good to mention that.
George Bush I had popularity ratings of 90% right after the Persian Gulf War.
But the economy kept getting worse, Pat Buchanan won New Hampshire, Ross Perot sapped conservative votes, and a little-known governor named Bill Clinton won a huge electoral victory.
The economy now is the wost it has been in 30 years. Worse than Carter's economy (but less inflation.)
Bush continues to make our army the police force of the world, sending them to Liberia now.
I hope the bum loses his home state of Texas in 2004.
Brett 252
08-03-2003 06:51 PM ET (US)
I don't want to see another relative of any president become president. I want a new man so he can get dirty. "Just Joking". I do think people pick at Presidents alot. I may go for Dean. My girlfriend likes him. We are both liberals.
I like the site. It's good communication. I may come back.
See you later
08-03-2003 06:51 PM ET (US)
I don't want to see another relative of any president become president. I want a new man so he can get dirty. "Just Joking". I do think people pick at Presidents alot. I may go for Dean. My girlfriend likes him. We are both liberals.
I like the site. It's good communication. I may come back.
See you later
Brett 253
08-03-2003 06:54 PM ET (US)
Jon Texas would be a big deal. Gore lost Tennessee in his run. I bet he was scared to go back there. Well see you later again. Hava good day Jon.
08-03-2003 06:54 PM ET (US)
Jon Texas would be a big deal. Gore lost Tennessee in his run. I bet he was scared to go back there. Well see you later again. Hava good day Jon.
Patti Ferschke 254
08-03-2003 07:23 PM ET (US)
Welcome Brett,please familiarize yourself with the threads as there's some good stuf in this site to help you make an "informed" decision this this next election. Ann and Keith have done an EXCEPTIONAL job preparing this site as it's an opportunity for "we the people" to have a voice. It certainly beats screaming at the news media on T.V.! Ann,I re-read most of the previous threads today, as {I'm one of those intense persons that want to see regime change this next election}and I saw what you had to say about BUSH. I respect your views on giving him a pass on the economy, jobs etc,however, that's what ALL Americans will do this next eletion,and that's how he plans to win! In my opinion he's had his chances,he gets no more times around the monopoly board,and it's time to move on and get BUSH out ! He has NO plan for the next election re:jobs,the environment,education,or making the peace,because he's surrounded himself with "old think tanks",that are anything about building and mending fences!It's an outrage to me ,and an insult to my intelligence,that "we the people",continue to support this kind of thinking.It should also matter to those fighting for this country ,in the sands of IRAQ, that "WE" believe "WE" will get to peace, while the "fight" is still about oil! This next election is about jobs,it better be about jobs,and it better be getting a grip on this economy in a most aggressive way, or we will not survive any of these wars we have brought to the table on every issue confronting the planet today. We cannot afford to have those lives lost in this war ,or any other war, have been in vain. Most "people" think it's an acceptable value, or okay situation to support the shroud of secrecy,that this Administration belives it can deliver to us, all in the name of" classified information". When the threat of "terror" becomes elevated on the news,the gauge in the eye of the needle,rises to the occasion,and for the re-election for GWB. Some folks say it doesn't matter that we find WMD'S,or it doesn't matter,that sixteen words were used in the State of The Union Address. Or,{and I really like this one}it doesn't matter that"W" has a problem with getting his facts turned around,because he means well! Well folks,it DOES matter. Perhaps we Americans need to use the word "DOES", like the Republicans, used the "IS" word on Clinton. It certainly "does" matter.!!!It matters to those families that lost loved ones,whose loss will never be part of their lives again. It matters that those who lost that life continue to be minorities,and it had better matter to "we the people". BUSH had better get his facts straight,as that's what a commander-in -chief is accountable to do, and had better do ! So, to those of you that say you will give BUSH a pass on the economy,I say I will never do that.I won't do that, because, as BUSH depletes the resources of this planet and the of good old USA,all hope for a better America is lost and so will the rest of the world... follow!
08-03-2003 07:23 PM ET (US)
Welcome Brett,please familiarize yourself with the threads as there's some good stuf in this site to help you make an "informed" decision this this next election. Ann and Keith have done an EXCEPTIONAL job preparing this site as it's an opportunity for "we the people" to have a voice. It certainly beats screaming at the news media on T.V.! Ann,I re-read most of the previous threads today, as {I'm one of those intense persons that want to see regime change this next election}and I saw what you had to say about BUSH. I respect your views on giving him a pass on the economy, jobs etc,however, that's what ALL Americans will do this next eletion,and that's how he plans to win! In my opinion he's had his chances,he gets no more times around the monopoly board,and it's time to move on and get BUSH out ! He has NO plan for the next election re:jobs,the environment,education,or making the peace,because he's surrounded himself with "old think tanks",that are anything about building and mending fences!It's an outrage to me ,and an insult to my intelligence,that "we the people",continue to support this kind of thinking.It should also matter to those fighting for this country ,in the sands of IRAQ, that "WE" believe "WE" will get to peace, while the "fight" is still about oil! This next election is about jobs,it better be about jobs,and it better be getting a grip on this economy in a most aggressive way, or we will not survive any of these wars we have brought to the table on every issue confronting the planet today. We cannot afford to have those lives lost in this war ,or any other war, have been in vain. Most "people" think it's an acceptable value, or okay situation to support the shroud of secrecy,that this Administration belives it can deliver to us, all in the name of" classified information". When the threat of "terror" becomes elevated on the news,the gauge in the eye of the needle,rises to the occasion,and for the re-election for GWB. Some folks say it doesn't matter that we find WMD'S,or it doesn't matter,that sixteen words were used in the State of The Union Address. Or,{and I really like this one}it doesn't matter that"W" has a problem with getting his facts turned around,because he means well! Well folks,it DOES matter. Perhaps we Americans need to use the word "DOES", like the Republicans, used the "IS" word on Clinton. It certainly "does" matter.!!!It matters to those families that lost loved ones,whose loss will never be part of their lives again. It matters that those who lost that life continue to be minorities,and it had better matter to "we the people". BUSH had better get his facts straight,as that's what a commander-in -chief is accountable to do, and had better do ! So, to those of you that say you will give BUSH a pass on the economy,I say I will never do that.I won't do that, because, as BUSH depletes the resources of this planet and the of good old USA,all hope for a better America is lost and so will the rest of the world... follow!
Keith Brekhus 255
08-03-2003 07:45 PM ET (US)
Jonathon, I agree with you that Dean has all the momentum right now. Dean is also the candidate I am supporting. My post on the polls was in response to Ann's question of how accurate Zogby's polls are. The truth is Zogby nailed the Presidential election in 2000 with his polls showing a virtual tie right before the election.
On the other hand, polls for primaries have much more difficulty determining who will actually vote in the primary. If anything, Gephardt and Lieberman seem to be clinging namely to name recognition and not much else. I wouldn't be surprised if the polls don't underestimate Dean's numbers since his supporters will be out in force and they seem the most motivated by far. Also I think a lot of undecideds will break for Dean--that appears to be the trend in states like New Hampshire and Iowa once people find out about him.
In short Dean seems to be surging, Kerry is running in place, and Lieberman and Gephardt are starting to slip. I noticed all while most of the unions leaders are endorsing Gephardt, Dean is polling ahead of everybody else among rank and file union workers. Not a good sign for Gephardt.
08-03-2003 07:45 PM ET (US)
Jonathon, I agree with you that Dean has all the momentum right now. Dean is also the candidate I am supporting. My post on the polls was in response to Ann's question of how accurate Zogby's polls are. The truth is Zogby nailed the Presidential election in 2000 with his polls showing a virtual tie right before the election.
On the other hand, polls for primaries have much more difficulty determining who will actually vote in the primary. If anything, Gephardt and Lieberman seem to be clinging namely to name recognition and not much else. I wouldn't be surprised if the polls don't underestimate Dean's numbers since his supporters will be out in force and they seem the most motivated by far. Also I think a lot of undecideds will break for Dean--that appears to be the trend in states like New Hampshire and Iowa once people find out about him.
In short Dean seems to be surging, Kerry is running in place, and Lieberman and Gephardt are starting to slip. I noticed all while most of the unions leaders are endorsing Gephardt, Dean is polling ahead of everybody else among rank and file union workers. Not a good sign for Gephardt.
Keith Brekhus 256
08-03-2003 07:54 PM ET (US)
Hey John,
I think Dean can carry all the states you listed except maybe Florida. Without Florida he would need New Mexico, West Virginia and Nevada.
or Ohio
or Missouri
or Arizona
or Arkansas and New Mexico
or a few other combinations might work. Bush could be competitve in Wisconsin and Minnesota though--those states have become more competitive for Republicans than many people realize, but I think Dean has a distinct advantage over the other Democrats in both the Upper Midwest and the Desert Southwest---if he can do well in these areas he can win the election even if he gets shutout in the South.
08-03-2003 07:54 PM ET (US)
Hey John,
I think Dean can carry all the states you listed except maybe Florida. Without Florida he would need New Mexico, West Virginia and Nevada.
or Ohio
or Missouri
or Arizona
or Arkansas and New Mexico
or a few other combinations might work. Bush could be competitve in Wisconsin and Minnesota though--those states have become more competitive for Republicans than many people realize, but I think Dean has a distinct advantage over the other Democrats in both the Upper Midwest and the Desert Southwest---if he can do well in these areas he can win the election even if he gets shutout in the South.
Patti Ferschke 257
08-03-2003 08:00 PM ET (US)
To you DEAN fans,you need to be aware of Carl Roves operatives...using the info from AUG 4th issue of Newsweek, I believe the following concept will be used..here goes..
SCENE:Footage of vietnam war in view,fighters taking of and Americans getting shot at from all sides.......then CUT: skier shaloming down the slope,skids to sudden STOP ,lands in front of Tv camera.Newsman points camera and mike at skier ,and says:"Howard Dean,what are your thoughts and priorities about the Vietnam war"? Actor resembling DEAN replies:"oh, I don't have to go as I got a medical leave deferment for a bad back"..that's what we're up against,and ROVE will stop at nothing,that's how the BUSH camp operates..the end always justifies the means! Are you guys getting the message ..yet?? You /we..will be brutalized! That's going to be the defining moment of this next election !Who can take Carl Roves brutality ?????!
08-03-2003 08:00 PM ET (US)
To you DEAN fans,you need to be aware of Carl Roves operatives...using the info from AUG 4th issue of Newsweek, I believe the following concept will be used..here goes..
SCENE:Footage of vietnam war in view,fighters taking of and Americans getting shot at from all sides.......then CUT: skier shaloming down the slope,skids to sudden STOP ,lands in front of Tv camera.Newsman points camera and mike at skier ,and says:"Howard Dean,what are your thoughts and priorities about the Vietnam war"? Actor resembling DEAN replies:"oh, I don't have to go as I got a medical leave deferment for a bad back"..that's what we're up against,and ROVE will stop at nothing,that's how the BUSH camp operates..the end always justifies the means! Are you guys getting the message ..yet?? You /we..will be brutalized! That's going to be the defining moment of this next election !Who can take Carl Roves brutality ?????!
Jennifer 258
08-03-2003 08:19 PM ET (US)
At least Bush stands up for what he believes in even if it will not win the 2004 Election for him. He's never changed on the issues.
08-03-2003 08:19 PM ET (US)
At least Bush stands up for what he believes in even if it will not win the 2004 Election for him. He's never changed on the issues.
Lee P. 259
08-03-2003 08:44 PM ET (US)
I have said it before I will say it again "The Republican Party is the Devil." You should not vote for the devil.
08-03-2003 08:44 PM ET (US)
I have said it before I will say it again "The Republican Party is the Devil." You should not vote for the devil.
Keith Brekhus 260
08-03-2003 09:37 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-03-2003 09:41 PM
If Rove does that Joe Trippi counters with attack ads.
Scene: Footage of American soldiers getting shot at from all sides in Iraq.
then CUT; Footage of Bush's lying about Iraq's alleged Weapons of Mass Destruction.
then voice over: x number of soldiers have died in Iraq because Bush lied to the nation. President Bush, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld have never served on the battlefield in times of war, yet they intentionally lied to send our young men and women over there and today those women and men continue to die over there. Isn't it time we had a responsible voice back in the White House who isn't reckless with the future of our children? (this would dovetail with ads about the reckless budget deficits bankrupting our children's future)
Vote for Dr. Dean and General Clark (borrowing Wayne's idea for running mate) in November and end the reckless policies of Bush/Cheney.
If the war is popular next year Bush wins regardless. If the occupation of Iraq continues with Americans dying daily, Bush/Rove have nothing to stand upon and the more they make an issue of it the more double-edged there strategy becomes. This war could bite them in the butt, if the Democrats meet them head on. Dean is brash enough to do it. Is Kerry? Or will Kerry concede that to appear patriotic you can't run anti-war ads like Max Cleland, the decorated Vietnam Vet, who lost the Georgia Senate Race in 2002 because he didn't fight fire with fire but conceded the terms of debate on patriotism to the Republicans.
08-03-2003 09:37 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-03-2003 09:41 PM
If Rove does that Joe Trippi counters with attack ads.
Scene: Footage of American soldiers getting shot at from all sides in Iraq.
then CUT; Footage of Bush's lying about Iraq's alleged Weapons of Mass Destruction.
then voice over: x number of soldiers have died in Iraq because Bush lied to the nation. President Bush, Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld have never served on the battlefield in times of war, yet they intentionally lied to send our young men and women over there and today those women and men continue to die over there. Isn't it time we had a responsible voice back in the White House who isn't reckless with the future of our children? (this would dovetail with ads about the reckless budget deficits bankrupting our children's future)
Vote for Dr. Dean and General Clark (borrowing Wayne's idea for running mate) in November and end the reckless policies of Bush/Cheney.
If the war is popular next year Bush wins regardless. If the occupation of Iraq continues with Americans dying daily, Bush/Rove have nothing to stand upon and the more they make an issue of it the more double-edged there strategy becomes. This war could bite them in the butt, if the Democrats meet them head on. Dean is brash enough to do it. Is Kerry? Or will Kerry concede that to appear patriotic you can't run anti-war ads like Max Cleland, the decorated Vietnam Vet, who lost the Georgia Senate Race in 2002 because he didn't fight fire with fire but conceded the terms of debate on patriotism to the Republicans.
Patti Ferschke 261
08-03-2003 09:54 PM ET (US)
TO JENNIFER: how right you are about BUSH staying on message..and the meesage is;:"Folks,we're in here for the long haul,we're going to find those WMD's,we're going to get BIN-Laden,lynch Saddam, and to hell with you and the rest of the world"!
08-03-2003 09:54 PM ET (US)
TO JENNIFER: how right you are about BUSH staying on message..and the meesage is;:"Folks,we're in here for the long haul,we're going to find those WMD's,we're going to get BIN-Laden,lynch Saddam, and to hell with you and the rest of the world"!
Patti Ferschke 262
08-03-2003 09:55 PM ET (US)
To Lee,..and I say;"never apologize to a republican for making a mistake"
08-03-2003 09:55 PM ET (US)
To Lee,..and I say;"never apologize to a republican for making a mistake"
Patti Ferschke 263
08-03-2003 09:58 PM ET (US)
I'm glad the KERRY TEAM is being quiet right now,smart strategies [not bombs},..but shock and awe will emerge !
08-03-2003 09:58 PM ET (US)
I'm glad the KERRY TEAM is being quiet right now,smart strategies [not bombs},..but shock and awe will emerge !
Patti Ferschke 264
08-03-2003 10:05 PM ET (US)
jonathon,I challenge you on your statement;"Kerry has done the worst job on articulating the war position".He has not done that,BUSH told him one thing,BUSH did something else!You just wait and see how articulate this KERRY guy is,but more importantly..he's got a "real time" plan !
08-03-2003 10:05 PM ET (US)
jonathon,I challenge you on your statement;"Kerry has done the worst job on articulating the war position".He has not done that,BUSH told him one thing,BUSH did something else!You just wait and see how articulate this KERRY guy is,but more importantly..he's got a "real time" plan !
Keith Brekhus 265
08-03-2003 10:07 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-03-2003 10:08 PM
Actually Patti, I think the Dean team is doing shock and awe right now, but the Kerry team might have the better long term strategy and team Dean might flame out after the "shock and awe" phase.
If you want to use the analogy that would be my spin if I was on the Kerry team. One of Kerry's weaknesses in my opinion is that he doesn't shock or awe anybody. He is bland and usually predictable---he is both less likely to offend and less likely to inspire than Dean.
Running against an incumbent I think Dean's risk-taking gives him the better odds. If Kerry were already the President it would be different, then his safe unassuming persona would work in his favor.
But the Democrats are underdogs in this race, and the way they need to win is to shake things up--Dean is better equipped to do that in my opinion.
08-03-2003 10:07 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-03-2003 10:08 PM
Actually Patti, I think the Dean team is doing shock and awe right now, but the Kerry team might have the better long term strategy and team Dean might flame out after the "shock and awe" phase.
If you want to use the analogy that would be my spin if I was on the Kerry team. One of Kerry's weaknesses in my opinion is that he doesn't shock or awe anybody. He is bland and usually predictable---he is both less likely to offend and less likely to inspire than Dean.
Running against an incumbent I think Dean's risk-taking gives him the better odds. If Kerry were already the President it would be different, then his safe unassuming persona would work in his favor.
But the Democrats are underdogs in this race, and the way they need to win is to shake things up--Dean is better equipped to do that in my opinion.
Patti Ferschke 266
08-03-2003 10:27 PM ET (US)
KEITH,I APPRECIATE YOUR THOUGHTS AND RESPECT THEM,BUT THAT'S THE THING KERRY NEEDS TO RID HIMSELF OF..AND HE WILL. HE'S A MOST "ENGAGING" SPEAKER ,IF AND WHEN HE GETS HIS BACK UP AGAINST A WALL. HE CERTAINLY COMMANDS RESPECT AND WHEN HE SPEAKS WE ALL LISTEN. JIM, FROM THE "INDEPENDENT FOR KERRY SITE" HAS IT RIGHT....KERRY WILL GET IT RIGHT TOO!ONE THING FOR SURE..KERRY'S THOUGHT PROCESS,WILL BEAT BUSH..ANY DAY...AND THAT'S WHY HE SHOULD BE THE FRONT-RUNNER!
08-03-2003 10:27 PM ET (US)
KEITH,I APPRECIATE YOUR THOUGHTS AND RESPECT THEM,BUT THAT'S THE THING KERRY NEEDS TO RID HIMSELF OF..AND HE WILL. HE'S A MOST "ENGAGING" SPEAKER ,IF AND WHEN HE GETS HIS BACK UP AGAINST A WALL. HE CERTAINLY COMMANDS RESPECT AND WHEN HE SPEAKS WE ALL LISTEN. JIM, FROM THE "INDEPENDENT FOR KERRY SITE" HAS IT RIGHT....KERRY WILL GET IT RIGHT TOO!ONE THING FOR SURE..KERRY'S THOUGHT PROCESS,WILL BEAT BUSH..ANY DAY...AND THAT'S WHY HE SHOULD BE THE FRONT-RUNNER!
Patti Ferschke 267
08-03-2003 10:48 PM ET (US)
IN FACT WE'LL NEVER HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO ANY REPUBLICAN..EVER AGAIN!
08-03-2003 10:48 PM ET (US)
IN FACT WE'LL NEVER HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO ANY REPUBLICAN..EVER AGAIN!
sindhu kumar 268
08-03-2003 11:03 PM ET (US)
did you hear that kerry is going to use the internet to criticize bush's war strategy. i cant wait to hear about what each of the nine democratic presidential candidates is going to say at the upcoming town hall meeting in iowa on wednesday.
08-03-2003 11:03 PM ET (US)
did you hear that kerry is going to use the internet to criticize bush's war strategy. i cant wait to hear about what each of the nine democratic presidential candidates is going to say at the upcoming town hall meeting in iowa on wednesday.
Patti Ferschke 269
08-03-2003 11:05 PM ET (US)
Sindhu,will that town meeting be televised?? I hope so..let the grid here know..Patti
08-03-2003 11:05 PM ET (US)
Sindhu,will that town meeting be televised?? I hope so..let the grid here know..Patti
sindhu kumar 270
08-03-2003 11:08 PM ET (US)
hey keith, john and wayne: if any of top three candiadtes gets to carry louisiana, he wins the presidency. everybody including bush will have to come and fight for Louuisiana's 8 electoral votes. never has this state been in the losing category.
08-03-2003 11:08 PM ET (US)
hey keith, john and wayne: if any of top three candiadtes gets to carry louisiana, he wins the presidency. everybody including bush will have to come and fight for Louuisiana's 8 electoral votes. never has this state been in the losing category.
sindhu kumar 272
08-03-2003 11:12 PM ET (US)
dean is going to be on cnn's larry king live tomorrow at 9 pm eastern time/ 8 pm central/6 pm pacific time. call and flood the phone lines
08-03-2003 11:12 PM ET (US)
dean is going to be on cnn's larry king live tomorrow at 9 pm eastern time/ 8 pm central/6 pm pacific time. call and flood the phone lines
Ann Stewart 273
08-03-2003 11:13 PM ET (US)
Hey everybody
I just got back in. Give me sometime to read all your comments and I will get to transfering them to the comments page. Thanks for coming in today. I think your all wonderful for caring enough to comment.
08-03-2003 11:13 PM ET (US)
Hey everybody
I just got back in. Give me sometime to read all your comments and I will get to transfering them to the comments page. Thanks for coming in today. I think your all wonderful for caring enough to comment.
Charles in Montana 274
08-03-2003 11:33 PM ET (US)
I'm back to defend my canidate Howard Dean. We have had a fantastic weekend. 70,000 people are now signed up with Dean Meetup. Campaign supporters rose from 233,000 to 251,000. Pundits say this momentum will some die out, but I seriously doubt that veiw. I'am a 30 year Rebulican so a debate with Bush supporters is welcome. I must warn you I'm not an intellectual, but I watch the Cabel closely. I, like Howard Dean, am angered. I have a compassion problem. I had a question tearing at my mind, it just wouldn't stop. I take February and March off due to cold weather. This gave me the time to watch all the moves. The deceptive speechs by all members of the administration including my former hero Colin Powell. I knew this was a push by the neocon Cabel to dominate the Middle East. Saddam is not a nice guy but he was innocent of the charges leveled against him and his country. Charges that lead to war were, imminent threat by use of bio and chemicl weapon and nuclear weapons. Since then new excuses such as Saddam is bad guy and freedom for the Iraqi people have been used to cover for the absent weapons. Please remember the reason to go to war proved to be wrong. Any after the fact argument is not relevent to our going to war. The anger? watching the news I see a 17 year old Iraqi girl with bandages from head to toe and her parents were begging American doctors, jouralists, soldiers, anyone that they could to help their daughter. She had burns over 90% of her body. The Iraqi doctors had no more bandages to give her due to sanctions. She had been in these bandages 7 days. What has she done to me and America to deserve to have her young life destroyed like this. I don't know if she lived or died. Many more innocent people, men ,women and children suffered the same fate. Now how can I ever say I'm sorry? I can't. How can I make this right? I can't. I can only go to work tomorrow, swing my hammer, throw some boards around and hurry home to get on the net and hope to stem this maddness that has gripped our country. Jennifer you say some people say the President is stupid. You think he may be smart. Go to:www.PNAC. This website is sponsered by Jeb Bush, Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Donald Rumsfeld, William Kristol, Dan Quayle and many other neocon Republicans who advocate world domination through military force and economic power to shape the world in our likeness. I don't think Bush is stupid or smart. Look at this webite and you may decide these guys are evil. Howard Dean will defend this country if under threat just as I would. Howard Deans anger is the same compassion that fueled my anger.
08-03-2003 11:33 PM ET (US)
I'm back to defend my canidate Howard Dean. We have had a fantastic weekend. 70,000 people are now signed up with Dean Meetup. Campaign supporters rose from 233,000 to 251,000. Pundits say this momentum will some die out, but I seriously doubt that veiw. I'am a 30 year Rebulican so a debate with Bush supporters is welcome. I must warn you I'm not an intellectual, but I watch the Cabel closely. I, like Howard Dean, am angered. I have a compassion problem. I had a question tearing at my mind, it just wouldn't stop. I take February and March off due to cold weather. This gave me the time to watch all the moves. The deceptive speechs by all members of the administration including my former hero Colin Powell. I knew this was a push by the neocon Cabel to dominate the Middle East. Saddam is not a nice guy but he was innocent of the charges leveled against him and his country. Charges that lead to war were, imminent threat by use of bio and chemicl weapon and nuclear weapons. Since then new excuses such as Saddam is bad guy and freedom for the Iraqi people have been used to cover for the absent weapons. Please remember the reason to go to war proved to be wrong. Any after the fact argument is not relevent to our going to war. The anger? watching the news I see a 17 year old Iraqi girl with bandages from head to toe and her parents were begging American doctors, jouralists, soldiers, anyone that they could to help their daughter. She had burns over 90% of her body. The Iraqi doctors had no more bandages to give her due to sanctions. She had been in these bandages 7 days. What has she done to me and America to deserve to have her young life destroyed like this. I don't know if she lived or died. Many more innocent people, men ,women and children suffered the same fate. Now how can I ever say I'm sorry? I can't. How can I make this right? I can't. I can only go to work tomorrow, swing my hammer, throw some boards around and hurry home to get on the net and hope to stem this maddness that has gripped our country. Jennifer you say some people say the President is stupid. You think he may be smart. Go to:www.PNAC. This website is sponsered by Jeb Bush, Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Donald Rumsfeld, William Kristol, Dan Quayle and many other neocon Republicans who advocate world domination through military force and economic power to shape the world in our likeness. I don't think Bush is stupid or smart. Look at this webite and you may decide these guys are evil. Howard Dean will defend this country if under threat just as I would. Howard Deans anger is the same compassion that fueled my anger.
Patti Ferschke 275
08-03-2003 11:40 PM ET (US)
gO CHARLES.........ANYTHING TO RID OURSELVES OF THIS MONSTER WE'VE CREATED WILL BE A ,AS "MARTHA"SAYS: GOOD THING!.......IT'S AGAIN ABOUT THE ECONOMY..AND ANN WILL POST SOME STUFF I FOUND SO YOU CAN RESEARH IT.WHOEVER THE MESSENGER "is".....IT'S GOT TO BE GOOD...KEERY OR DEAN ON DELIVERANCE!!!!
08-03-2003 11:40 PM ET (US)
gO CHARLES.........ANYTHING TO RID OURSELVES OF THIS MONSTER WE'VE CREATED WILL BE A ,AS "MARTHA"SAYS: GOOD THING!.......IT'S AGAIN ABOUT THE ECONOMY..AND ANN WILL POST SOME STUFF I FOUND SO YOU CAN RESEARH IT.WHOEVER THE MESSENGER "is".....IT'S GOT TO BE GOOD...KEERY OR DEAN ON DELIVERANCE!!!!
Keith Brekhus 276
08-03-2003 11:47 PM ET (US)
Sindhu,
Actually no President has won without taking Louisiana since 1968. If the Democrats win Louisiana I agree they win the election. If Bush wins Louisiana he probably wins the election as well, although I can conceive of a way a Democrat could get 270 Electoral votes without Louisiana (Gore would have won without Louisiana for example had he carried Florida).
George Wallace carried Lousiana in 1968, Barry Goldwater in 1964, Adlai Stevenson in 1952 and Strom Thurmond in 1948 and all of them lost.
However, that was a very different time when Louisiana was a provincial segregationist enclave rather than a true swing state (but still with a distinctly southern flavor) like it is today.
No doubt, Louisiana is a key state and both parties will be well advised to campaign there.
08-03-2003 11:47 PM ET (US)
Sindhu,
Actually no President has won without taking Louisiana since 1968. If the Democrats win Louisiana I agree they win the election. If Bush wins Louisiana he probably wins the election as well, although I can conceive of a way a Democrat could get 270 Electoral votes without Louisiana (Gore would have won without Louisiana for example had he carried Florida).
George Wallace carried Lousiana in 1968, Barry Goldwater in 1964, Adlai Stevenson in 1952 and Strom Thurmond in 1948 and all of them lost.
However, that was a very different time when Louisiana was a provincial segregationist enclave rather than a true swing state (but still with a distinctly southern flavor) like it is today.
No doubt, Louisiana is a key state and both parties will be well advised to campaign there.
Keith Brekhus 277
08-03-2003 11:56 PM ET (US)
The Project for a New American Century (PNAC) that is being promoted by Bush, Cheney and company is truly perverse. To read more about it, this link written by Josh Marshall is a nice summary...
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2003/0304.marshall.html
08-03-2003 11:56 PM ET (US)
The Project for a New American Century (PNAC) that is being promoted by Bush, Cheney and company is truly perverse. To read more about it, this link written by Josh Marshall is a nice summary...
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2003/0304.marshall.html
Charles in Montana 278
08-03-2003 11:59 PM ET (US)
THANK YOU KEITH I'm not computer wise to do that.
08-03-2003 11:59 PM ET (US)
THANK YOU KEITH I'm not computer wise to do that.
Ann Stewart 280
08-04-2003 12:36 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-04-2003 01:12 AM
There that goes again. What is that? Did somebody subscribe to this debate and forget to take their name off? I think that might be what has happen. Sorry Folks. I'm going to add another comments page just for other comments on the Election. Thank you all for building this site. You are the ones who made it happen. You all brought good info to it. Please continue the debate. I'm posting as your comments as you go.
08-04-2003 12:36 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-04-2003 01:12 AM
There that goes again. What is that? Did somebody subscribe to this debate and forget to take their name off? I think that might be what has happen. Sorry Folks. I'm going to add another comments page just for other comments on the Election. Thank you all for building this site. You are the ones who made it happen. You all brought good info to it. Please continue the debate. I'm posting as your comments as you go.
Ann Stewart 281
08-04-2003 01:37 AM ET (US)
Well good night everyone. It is almost 1 am in the morning in Nashville. I hope you all sleep well tonight. I thank you so much for your comments and opinions and coming out today to show that you care about what is happening to America. This site is being built for the voice of the people. A place where anybody can share his or her views. All comments and opinions are welcome. They will go to build this site. Thank you for caring about America. If you didn’t you wouldn’t have came here. I say “WE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO CARE ABOUT AMERICA.”
Site Editor Ann Stewart
08-04-2003 01:37 AM ET (US)
Well good night everyone. It is almost 1 am in the morning in Nashville. I hope you all sleep well tonight. I thank you so much for your comments and opinions and coming out today to show that you care about what is happening to America. This site is being built for the voice of the people. A place where anybody can share his or her views. All comments and opinions are welcome. They will go to build this site. Thank you for caring about America. If you didn’t you wouldn’t have came here. I say “WE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO CARE ABOUT AMERICA.”
Site Editor Ann Stewart
Micheal Bohannon 282
08-04-2003 02:31 AM ET (US)
How soon do you guys believe the less popular Democratic candidates will start dropping out of the race? Thanks Keith for answering my question. This is a very informative site, and Ann I think that with this forum I will be able to make a better decision this time around, or at least I hope.
08-04-2003 02:31 AM ET (US)
How soon do you guys believe the less popular Democratic candidates will start dropping out of the race? Thanks Keith for answering my question. This is a very informative site, and Ann I think that with this forum I will be able to make a better decision this time around, or at least I hope.
Patti Ferschke 283
08-04-2003 03:20 AM ET (US)
AFTER READING KEITH'S POST I'M CONVINCED WE'D
BETTER GET THE BEST FOREIGN POLICY MAKERS IN..GO KERRY ON THIS ONE
08-04-2003 03:20 AM ET (US)
AFTER READING KEITH'S POST I'M CONVINCED WE'D
BETTER GET THE BEST FOREIGN POLICY MAKERS IN..GO KERRY ON THIS ONE
Keith Brekhus 284
08-04-2003 09:23 AM ET (US)
Michael,
I think you might see some candidates drop out after the third quarter fundraising figures are released in September, but maybe not. For sure some will drop out after Iowa and New hampshire though. Moseley-braun might be the first to drop, and Edwards and Graham will surely fall off if they do poorly in South Carolina (the 1st Southern state to hold a primary or caucus).
Kucinich and Shrpton have no chance to get the nomination but they might hang around and raise pet issues anyway.
If Dean wins Iowa, Gephardt doesn't last much longer either.
08-04-2003 09:23 AM ET (US)
Michael,
I think you might see some candidates drop out after the third quarter fundraising figures are released in September, but maybe not. For sure some will drop out after Iowa and New hampshire though. Moseley-braun might be the first to drop, and Edwards and Graham will surely fall off if they do poorly in South Carolina (the 1st Southern state to hold a primary or caucus).
Kucinich and Shrpton have no chance to get the nomination but they might hang around and raise pet issues anyway.
If Dean wins Iowa, Gephardt doesn't last much longer either.
Keith Brekhus 285
08-04-2003 09:27 AM ET (US)
The secret of Dean's success
(I took this from Daily Kos blog but made some minor revisions and omitted some sentences from the original)
Lieberman attacks Dean. Kerry attacks Dean. The DLC attacks Dean.
And yet Dean only gets stronger, on the cover of all three major US newsweeklies (Time ,Newsweek , and US News and making leaps and bounds in ALL the polls. His Meetup numbers continue to defy gravity, as does the campaign's signup list. These are all facts, not spin. Whether you love or hate Dean, you have to admit that he has been the center of attention in this race for the past few months, and by all objective methods has got the most solid results.
While the other eight candidates issue press releases into the nether and struggle to reach voters, Dean speaks to hundreds, if not thousands, everywhere he goes. No one has ever seen anything like it. Perhaps McCain 2000, but not until after the NH primary.
Right now, we haven't even reached Labor Day (when Americans are supposed to start paying attention to politics).
The formula to Dean's success is simple: He speaks like a Democrat, particularly the part about opposing Republicans. That resonates with those of us who saw DLC-types lead the Democratic party to disaster in 2002.
"Don't attack Bush!" say the frightened DLCers. "He's too popular!"
All the while, the Democratic rank-and-file sits by lusting for some sign of life from our elected Democratic officials. Something to show they have the smallest interest in fighting for what's right, for our country, for our true security -- military and economic, and for the notion, quaint as it may be, that government can play a role in improving the quality of life of all Americans, regardless of their socio-economic status.
While the rest of the Democratic field scratches its head, wondering how to slow Dean's momentum (not realizing that every attack on Dean is good for thousands more MeetUp signups), Dean's team has been bold, daring, even exhibiting a bit of chutzpah.
How else to explain the ad campaign the Dean campaign will run in Austin this week, mocking Bush as he vacations nearby? Texas isn't a key primary state, and if it was, Dean couldn't win it, could he? And even if he could win the state's primary (and the nomination), he REALLY couldn't compete in Texas in 2004, could he?
Nah, Texas is out of reach. But this ad buy goes beyond that. It cements Dean as the star of the field. He fires up the base (ads in Texas? I was giddy when I first read about it!). He earns globs of free press as news programs and the cable news networks talk and talk some more about the ad.
Here we have a Democrat who isn't afraid of Bush. In fact, he's eager to take the battle to Bush when most of the others offer nothing more than tepid press releases.
The math looks good for Democrats. The issues look good. I said before the war it wouldn't be a campaign winner, and I think I called it correctly. The economy is in shambles. This president has the worst job record of any since Hoover, with millions of jobs lost.
People will want an alternative to Bush. Not just disaffected Democrats. Or out-of-work independents. But people from across the political spectrum. And it starts with that grassroots and netroots army of his.
No one is more electable than Dean. His approval ratings are amongst the tops, his ability to raise money is proven and he will be financially competitive against Bush. More so than the other candidates, Dean can sport the sort of electoral coattails that can sweep Congressional candidates into victory (just think of those hundreds of thousands of volunteers pulling for their Congressional, statewide, and local Dems). His voting record will fit nicely with battleground states such as WV, NV, CO and AZ.
The pundits may disagree, but they have failed to predict anything about Dean thus far. His success baffles, as it follow no other historical script (not even the tired McGovern one). So they are irrelevant to Dean's continued success (or lack thereof). It's a brand new world, and the rules have changed.
08-04-2003 09:27 AM ET (US)
The secret of Dean's success
(I took this from Daily Kos blog but made some minor revisions and omitted some sentences from the original)
Lieberman attacks Dean. Kerry attacks Dean. The DLC attacks Dean.
And yet Dean only gets stronger, on the cover of all three major US newsweeklies (Time ,Newsweek , and US News and making leaps and bounds in ALL the polls. His Meetup numbers continue to defy gravity, as does the campaign's signup list. These are all facts, not spin. Whether you love or hate Dean, you have to admit that he has been the center of attention in this race for the past few months, and by all objective methods has got the most solid results.
While the other eight candidates issue press releases into the nether and struggle to reach voters, Dean speaks to hundreds, if not thousands, everywhere he goes. No one has ever seen anything like it. Perhaps McCain 2000, but not until after the NH primary.
Right now, we haven't even reached Labor Day (when Americans are supposed to start paying attention to politics).
The formula to Dean's success is simple: He speaks like a Democrat, particularly the part about opposing Republicans. That resonates with those of us who saw DLC-types lead the Democratic party to disaster in 2002.
"Don't attack Bush!" say the frightened DLCers. "He's too popular!"
All the while, the Democratic rank-and-file sits by lusting for some sign of life from our elected Democratic officials. Something to show they have the smallest interest in fighting for what's right, for our country, for our true security -- military and economic, and for the notion, quaint as it may be, that government can play a role in improving the quality of life of all Americans, regardless of their socio-economic status.
While the rest of the Democratic field scratches its head, wondering how to slow Dean's momentum (not realizing that every attack on Dean is good for thousands more MeetUp signups), Dean's team has been bold, daring, even exhibiting a bit of chutzpah.
How else to explain the ad campaign the Dean campaign will run in Austin this week, mocking Bush as he vacations nearby? Texas isn't a key primary state, and if it was, Dean couldn't win it, could he? And even if he could win the state's primary (and the nomination), he REALLY couldn't compete in Texas in 2004, could he?
Nah, Texas is out of reach. But this ad buy goes beyond that. It cements Dean as the star of the field. He fires up the base (ads in Texas? I was giddy when I first read about it!). He earns globs of free press as news programs and the cable news networks talk and talk some more about the ad.
Here we have a Democrat who isn't afraid of Bush. In fact, he's eager to take the battle to Bush when most of the others offer nothing more than tepid press releases.
The math looks good for Democrats. The issues look good. I said before the war it wouldn't be a campaign winner, and I think I called it correctly. The economy is in shambles. This president has the worst job record of any since Hoover, with millions of jobs lost.
People will want an alternative to Bush. Not just disaffected Democrats. Or out-of-work independents. But people from across the political spectrum. And it starts with that grassroots and netroots army of his.
No one is more electable than Dean. His approval ratings are amongst the tops, his ability to raise money is proven and he will be financially competitive against Bush. More so than the other candidates, Dean can sport the sort of electoral coattails that can sweep Congressional candidates into victory (just think of those hundreds of thousands of volunteers pulling for their Congressional, statewide, and local Dems). His voting record will fit nicely with battleground states such as WV, NV, CO and AZ.
The pundits may disagree, but they have failed to predict anything about Dean thus far. His success baffles, as it follow no other historical script (not even the tired McGovern one). So they are irrelevant to Dean's continued success (or lack thereof). It's a brand new world, and the rules have changed.
Steven Bohannon 286
08-04-2003 02:01 PM ET (US)
Hello, everyone who has posted to this forum. All your comments are well-reasoned and appreciated.
Just to add a belated two cents worth: I don't like falling anywhere in the political spectrum. I think most people believe that we need an economy that has a robust, business-driven engine and a strong military (including intelligence and terrorist-interdiction capabilties) to protect us from our numerous adversaries. These necessities are those that are most breathlessly promoted by the Republican Party. Conversly, most of us agree that we need a strong economic middle class and a social safety net that addresses abject poverty in this country for those who are, sometimes through little more than genetic predisposition or just bad luck, factored out of the free market opportunity in this country. We can recall the horrors of the industrial age when we consider John Steinbeck's Grapes of Wrath and other foreboding tales. The Democrats, at least in their rhetoric, seem to be more aware of these types of issues.
In the political arena, when you consider all these concerns that the electorate should have, it makes it difficult to place one clear-cut candidate over the rest. The electorate generally seems to favor the moderate candidate that considers these issues and attempts to be an advocate for each of them. The wild card in presidential politics is where the candidates come down on the social or moral issues, such as abortion, civil rights for minorities and majorities, the pledge of allegiance, school prayer, religious freedoms, and other such issues. I believe an ardent minority actually use these issues as litmus tests that override the primary issues to most Americans mentioned above.
Factoring in all these considerations with an eye toward 2004, I believe that President Bush is in a strong positions to recapture the presidency. However, he is not in an unassailable position. I believe the president is perceived and generally recognized as strong on national security with his well-publicized strategy of terrorist interdiction that was formulated (certainly with his crack team of advisors involved in policy decisions)after September 11th. Most Americans, including most Democrats, are generally supportive of the president's efforts, and if he does reign in much of the potential for terrorism against America, he will likely establish a legacy for that one paramount accomplishment. Where the president is vulnerable, just like his dad, is on the economy, and the media is very aware of this Achilles heel. So far the so-called economic recovery has been a jobless one, with unemployment rates on the rise. The stock market may rebound, but a recovery that doesn't provide employment opportunities for those who have been displaced by the most recent recession is not one that will cause the electorate to cast ballots for George W. with any enthusiasm. Here is where candidates like Howard Dean and Dick Gephart can challenge the president, and already are, because there are certainly astute politicians in the opposition. Mr. Dean, in particular, although a darling of the liberal establishment, may have to watch what he says on the topic of national defense. I don't believe that his recent pronouncement that the United States will not always have the strongest military in the world aids his cause with American voters. He can have an ardent base of support with all the liberals in America, and even score on some pocket-book issues such as middle-class targeted tax cuts, and still get trounced on election day if he comes off sounding week on national security. I would think that the more conservative Democratic candidates, someone like Joe Lieberman, could use his strong positions on national defense to draw out an advantage over his Democratic rivals, particularly in the Southeast and Midwest parts of the country.
I'm not sure at this stage which candidate has the advantage in the realm of social issues. There is currently a raging debate about the meaning of "marriage" in this country, and I think both major parties are seeking to cast that debate in their favor. I have to say that I'm on the side of the traditional interpretation of what marriage means, but I totally abhor discrimination and persecution of anybody.
At this point I don't have a clear indication about who will win this election, or who I will support. Maybe this forum will help me make up my mind.
I'll stay tuned. I apologize if there's typos or bad grammar above; I didn't do much proof-reading.
08-04-2003 02:01 PM ET (US)
Hello, everyone who has posted to this forum. All your comments are well-reasoned and appreciated.
Just to add a belated two cents worth: I don't like falling anywhere in the political spectrum. I think most people believe that we need an economy that has a robust, business-driven engine and a strong military (including intelligence and terrorist-interdiction capabilties) to protect us from our numerous adversaries. These necessities are those that are most breathlessly promoted by the Republican Party. Conversly, most of us agree that we need a strong economic middle class and a social safety net that addresses abject poverty in this country for those who are, sometimes through little more than genetic predisposition or just bad luck, factored out of the free market opportunity in this country. We can recall the horrors of the industrial age when we consider John Steinbeck's Grapes of Wrath and other foreboding tales. The Democrats, at least in their rhetoric, seem to be more aware of these types of issues.
In the political arena, when you consider all these concerns that the electorate should have, it makes it difficult to place one clear-cut candidate over the rest. The electorate generally seems to favor the moderate candidate that considers these issues and attempts to be an advocate for each of them. The wild card in presidential politics is where the candidates come down on the social or moral issues, such as abortion, civil rights for minorities and majorities, the pledge of allegiance, school prayer, religious freedoms, and other such issues. I believe an ardent minority actually use these issues as litmus tests that override the primary issues to most Americans mentioned above.
Factoring in all these considerations with an eye toward 2004, I believe that President Bush is in a strong positions to recapture the presidency. However, he is not in an unassailable position. I believe the president is perceived and generally recognized as strong on national security with his well-publicized strategy of terrorist interdiction that was formulated (certainly with his crack team of advisors involved in policy decisions)after September 11th. Most Americans, including most Democrats, are generally supportive of the president's efforts, and if he does reign in much of the potential for terrorism against America, he will likely establish a legacy for that one paramount accomplishment. Where the president is vulnerable, just like his dad, is on the economy, and the media is very aware of this Achilles heel. So far the so-called economic recovery has been a jobless one, with unemployment rates on the rise. The stock market may rebound, but a recovery that doesn't provide employment opportunities for those who have been displaced by the most recent recession is not one that will cause the electorate to cast ballots for George W. with any enthusiasm. Here is where candidates like Howard Dean and Dick Gephart can challenge the president, and already are, because there are certainly astute politicians in the opposition. Mr. Dean, in particular, although a darling of the liberal establishment, may have to watch what he says on the topic of national defense. I don't believe that his recent pronouncement that the United States will not always have the strongest military in the world aids his cause with American voters. He can have an ardent base of support with all the liberals in America, and even score on some pocket-book issues such as middle-class targeted tax cuts, and still get trounced on election day if he comes off sounding week on national security. I would think that the more conservative Democratic candidates, someone like Joe Lieberman, could use his strong positions on national defense to draw out an advantage over his Democratic rivals, particularly in the Southeast and Midwest parts of the country.
I'm not sure at this stage which candidate has the advantage in the realm of social issues. There is currently a raging debate about the meaning of "marriage" in this country, and I think both major parties are seeking to cast that debate in their favor. I have to say that I'm on the side of the traditional interpretation of what marriage means, but I totally abhor discrimination and persecution of anybody.
At this point I don't have a clear indication about who will win this election, or who I will support. Maybe this forum will help me make up my mind.
I'll stay tuned. I apologize if there's typos or bad grammar above; I didn't do much proof-reading.
Wayne in Missouri 287
08-04-2003 02:31 PM ET (US)
Steven,
Thoughtful comments and ones that I think catch the mood of many voters.
I think while Bush is most vulnerable on the economy, that he should be more vulnerbale on national security issues than he presently is.
I am probably in the minority on this view but I think Bush has not done a particularly good job on national security beyond symbolic look tough gestures and military adventures abroad (Afghanistan was related to the war on terror and necessary, Iraq strikes me as less so).
My main reason for this comment is that Bush has given the states a bunch of unfunded mandates on homeland security while washing the federal government of its financial responsibility on such matters. An unfunded mandate means the federal government tells the states what they are required to do, but doesn't offer them any federal funding to do it. This is one of the reason so many states are facing huge budget shortages and why many of the states are passing tax increases. The Bush tax cuts are mostly an illusion because in most states tax cuts from the feds are being offset by tax increases from the states. The governors get blamed but their decisions are directly related to federal decisions that cripple the states with spending programs required by the federal government but not funded by them.
I'm also miffed that Bush has cut veteran's benefits while using American troops as a backdrop for his 24-7 re-election campaign. Sometimes I think Karl Rove (Bush's campaign manager) is driving foreign policy.
Attacking Iraq, in my view, has come at the expense of going after Al Queda and at the expense of doing more about Homeland Security here at home.
I may be in the minority on this but I'm not convinced that Bush has made this country any safer than it was on 9/11. I think he should've required some sacrifice on behalf of Americans and used some of his tax cuts toward funding his unfunded homeland security mandates, rather than passing the buck, the finanical burden, and the tough choices to our nation's governors.
08-04-2003 02:31 PM ET (US)
Steven,
Thoughtful comments and ones that I think catch the mood of many voters.
I think while Bush is most vulnerable on the economy, that he should be more vulnerbale on national security issues than he presently is.
I am probably in the minority on this view but I think Bush has not done a particularly good job on national security beyond symbolic look tough gestures and military adventures abroad (Afghanistan was related to the war on terror and necessary, Iraq strikes me as less so).
My main reason for this comment is that Bush has given the states a bunch of unfunded mandates on homeland security while washing the federal government of its financial responsibility on such matters. An unfunded mandate means the federal government tells the states what they are required to do, but doesn't offer them any federal funding to do it. This is one of the reason so many states are facing huge budget shortages and why many of the states are passing tax increases. The Bush tax cuts are mostly an illusion because in most states tax cuts from the feds are being offset by tax increases from the states. The governors get blamed but their decisions are directly related to federal decisions that cripple the states with spending programs required by the federal government but not funded by them.
I'm also miffed that Bush has cut veteran's benefits while using American troops as a backdrop for his 24-7 re-election campaign. Sometimes I think Karl Rove (Bush's campaign manager) is driving foreign policy.
Attacking Iraq, in my view, has come at the expense of going after Al Queda and at the expense of doing more about Homeland Security here at home.
I may be in the minority on this but I'm not convinced that Bush has made this country any safer than it was on 9/11. I think he should've required some sacrifice on behalf of Americans and used some of his tax cuts toward funding his unfunded homeland security mandates, rather than passing the buck, the finanical burden, and the tough choices to our nation's governors.
Keith Brekhus 288
08-04-2003 02:49 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-04-2003 02:50 PM
I hate to be overly cynical but in the Army Times, the following editorial points out where Bush has let soldiers down too. Is he using them as political pawns? Are they disposable heroes? It seems like the men and women in uniform are getting a lot of lip service from the administration, but the Army's own newspaper points out where the administration and its Republican allies have failed to deliver.....
Nothing but lip service
(Issue Date: June 30, 2003)
In recent months, President Bush and the Republican-controlled Congress have missed no opportunity to heap richly deserved praise on the military. But talk is cheap --and getting cheaper by the day, judging from the nickel-and-dime treatment the troops are getting lately.
For example, the White House griped that various pay-and-benefits incentives added to the 2004 defense budget by Congress are wasteful -- and unnecessary -- including a modest proposal to double the $6,000 gratuity paid to families of troops who die on active duty. This comes at a time when Americans continue to die in Iraq at a rate of about one a day.
Similarly, the administration announced that on Oct. 1 it wants to roll back recent modest increases in monthly imminent-danger pay (from $225 to $150) and family-separation allowance (from $250 to $100) for troops getting shot at in combat zones.
Then there's military tax relief -- or the lack thereof. As Bush and Republican leaders in Congress preach the mantra of tax cuts, they can't seem to find time to make progress on minor tax provisions that would be a boon to military homeowners, reservists who travel long distances for training and parents deployed to combat zones, among others.
Incredibly, one of those tax provisions -- easing residency rules for service members to qualify for capital-gains exemptions when selling a home -- has been a homeless orphan in the corridors of power for more than five years now.
The chintz even extends to basic pay. While Bush's proposed 2004 defense budget would continue higher targeted raises for some ranks, he also proposed capping raises for E-1s, E-2s and O-1s at 2 percent, well below the average raise of 4.1 percent.
The Senate version of the defense bill rejects that idea, and would provide minimum 3.7 percent raises for all and higher targeted hikes for some. But the House version of the bill goes along with Bush, making this an issue still to be hashed out in upcoming negotiations.
All of which brings us to the latest indignity Bush's $9.2 billion military construction request for 2004, which was set a full $1.5 billion below this year's budget on the expectation that Congress, as has become tradition in recent years, would add funding as it drafted the construction appropriations bill.
But Bush's tax cuts have left little elbow room in the 2004 federal budget that is taking shape, and the squeeze is on across the board.
08-04-2003 02:49 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-04-2003 02:50 PM
I hate to be overly cynical but in the Army Times, the following editorial points out where Bush has let soldiers down too. Is he using them as political pawns? Are they disposable heroes? It seems like the men and women in uniform are getting a lot of lip service from the administration, but the Army's own newspaper points out where the administration and its Republican allies have failed to deliver.....
Nothing but lip service
(Issue Date: June 30, 2003)
In recent months, President Bush and the Republican-controlled Congress have missed no opportunity to heap richly deserved praise on the military. But talk is cheap --and getting cheaper by the day, judging from the nickel-and-dime treatment the troops are getting lately.
For example, the White House griped that various pay-and-benefits incentives added to the 2004 defense budget by Congress are wasteful -- and unnecessary -- including a modest proposal to double the $6,000 gratuity paid to families of troops who die on active duty. This comes at a time when Americans continue to die in Iraq at a rate of about one a day.
Similarly, the administration announced that on Oct. 1 it wants to roll back recent modest increases in monthly imminent-danger pay (from $225 to $150) and family-separation allowance (from $250 to $100) for troops getting shot at in combat zones.
Then there's military tax relief -- or the lack thereof. As Bush and Republican leaders in Congress preach the mantra of tax cuts, they can't seem to find time to make progress on minor tax provisions that would be a boon to military homeowners, reservists who travel long distances for training and parents deployed to combat zones, among others.
Incredibly, one of those tax provisions -- easing residency rules for service members to qualify for capital-gains exemptions when selling a home -- has been a homeless orphan in the corridors of power for more than five years now.
The chintz even extends to basic pay. While Bush's proposed 2004 defense budget would continue higher targeted raises for some ranks, he also proposed capping raises for E-1s, E-2s and O-1s at 2 percent, well below the average raise of 4.1 percent.
The Senate version of the defense bill rejects that idea, and would provide minimum 3.7 percent raises for all and higher targeted hikes for some. But the House version of the bill goes along with Bush, making this an issue still to be hashed out in upcoming negotiations.
All of which brings us to the latest indignity Bush's $9.2 billion military construction request for 2004, which was set a full $1.5 billion below this year's budget on the expectation that Congress, as has become tradition in recent years, would add funding as it drafted the construction appropriations bill.
But Bush's tax cuts have left little elbow room in the 2004 federal budget that is taking shape, and the squeeze is on across the board.
Ann Stewart 289
08-04-2003 03:24 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-04-2003 03:51 PM
Hello Steven
Welcome to the debate. I’ve been calling you and leaving you messages to get your insight on this. I have always respected your opinion. If anybody is wondering Steven and Michael are related. Steven I asked you this in the last Presidential election, you live in Sacramento California, living in the capitol maybe you have a birds eye view on how the people there will vote in the democratic primaries. Do you think there is a main democratic candidate that people are talking about or leaning to as a favorite in the democratic run? California went democratic in the last run. It is probable that it will again correct?
And Hello to everybody else
I will share with you all my experiences today. A sad thing happened to me, I went to work and the supermarket and I asked three people who they were going to vote for. Two of them said they would vote for Bush and didn’t even know who the democratic nominees were. One of them said he has heard of Kerry, but not Dean. The other man had never heard of either of them. I must admit I had not heard of Dean until 4 weeks ago, but I had heard of Kerry, Gepheardt, Leiberman and even Edwards. But now Dean seems like he has came of the bottom of the Political barrel and floated to the top. How did this happen? How did he make that fast of a jump? That is amazing.
08-04-2003 03:24 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-04-2003 03:51 PM
Hello Steven
Welcome to the debate. I’ve been calling you and leaving you messages to get your insight on this. I have always respected your opinion. If anybody is wondering Steven and Michael are related. Steven I asked you this in the last Presidential election, you live in Sacramento California, living in the capitol maybe you have a birds eye view on how the people there will vote in the democratic primaries. Do you think there is a main democratic candidate that people are talking about or leaning to as a favorite in the democratic run? California went democratic in the last run. It is probable that it will again correct?
And Hello to everybody else
I will share with you all my experiences today. A sad thing happened to me, I went to work and the supermarket and I asked three people who they were going to vote for. Two of them said they would vote for Bush and didn’t even know who the democratic nominees were. One of them said he has heard of Kerry, but not Dean. The other man had never heard of either of them. I must admit I had not heard of Dean until 4 weeks ago, but I had heard of Kerry, Gepheardt, Leiberman and even Edwards. But now Dean seems like he has came of the bottom of the Political barrel and floated to the top. How did this happen? How did he make that fast of a jump? That is amazing.
Wayne in Missouri 290
08-04-2003 04:01 PM ET (US)
Ann,
I think Dean's rise is largely based on his successful use of the internet and especially the web-blog. He has been able to develop a huge grassroots following through the internet and has been able to compete financially by getting small $25 to $50 donations from thousands of people who donate to his campaign by clicking a few buttons on the web.
His fundraising and grassroots organizing sucess over the internet has then lead to the TV news and newspapers reporting more on his campaign and it is this secondary effect that is now taking effect.
The other candidates really haven't capitalized on the web the way Dean has. I think their campiagn managers are reluctant to have a blog which sacrifices some of the top down organizational structure because they are afraid putting the campaign discussion in the hands of ordinary people will not allow them to control their message as tightly. Perhaps the sad reality is that campaigning has become so much about a controlled and calculated image directed by a campaign manager, that some campaigns are reluctant to take advantage of a technology that sacrifices some of their control.
Dean and his campaign manager took a risk when others were too cautious and right now it looks like that risk is paying off. I think it could change the future of campaigning and in ways that slightly enhance the power of the ordinary individual at the expense of lobbyists. The change isn't as revolutionary as some in the media are now hinting, but it is a significant and positive change nonetheless, imho.
08-04-2003 04:01 PM ET (US)
Ann,
I think Dean's rise is largely based on his successful use of the internet and especially the web-blog. He has been able to develop a huge grassroots following through the internet and has been able to compete financially by getting small $25 to $50 donations from thousands of people who donate to his campaign by clicking a few buttons on the web.
His fundraising and grassroots organizing sucess over the internet has then lead to the TV news and newspapers reporting more on his campaign and it is this secondary effect that is now taking effect.
The other candidates really haven't capitalized on the web the way Dean has. I think their campiagn managers are reluctant to have a blog which sacrifices some of the top down organizational structure because they are afraid putting the campaign discussion in the hands of ordinary people will not allow them to control their message as tightly. Perhaps the sad reality is that campaigning has become so much about a controlled and calculated image directed by a campaign manager, that some campaigns are reluctant to take advantage of a technology that sacrifices some of their control.
Dean and his campaign manager took a risk when others were too cautious and right now it looks like that risk is paying off. I think it could change the future of campaigning and in ways that slightly enhance the power of the ordinary individual at the expense of lobbyists. The change isn't as revolutionary as some in the media are now hinting, but it is a significant and positive change nonetheless, imho.
Keith Brekhus 291
08-04-2003 04:30 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-04-2003 04:32 PM
I think this site is a microcosm of how Dean has been successful. He has built an invisible army of enthusiastic volunteers who work for free on their own time at a keyboard spreading Dean's message.
People like myself, Alison Brown and Charles in Montana, etc. who each give our own independent perspectives on why we support Dean and spread it without taking our talking points from party organizers--we just do it because Dean's message empowers us and in turn we empower him. It is a dialectic where people-powered Howard is being run by Howard powered-people.
The invisible army of mousepads clicking in unison across the nation, will be joined by an army of foot soldiers banging on doors in New Hampshire and Iowa in the dead of winter, and we are mailing letters to voters there already.
Sure the other campaigns have their loyal volunteers and supporters. Kerry is indebted to folks like Patti, for example.
But no other candidate in this race, perhaps in electoral history has generated so much support so early and so quickly. It could be just a passing fad before Dean flames out as just another insurgent who had his fifteen minutes of fame, but I doubt it.
It could also be a political earthquake that is just beginning to register with faint rumblings on the national seismograph, but that will shake the foundations of how politics is done in this country, and returns power to the grassroots.
Time will tell, but my sincere hope is that the Dean campaign is like no other and that come next November George Bush, the Democratic Leadership Council, the media and the pundits all wake up the morning after the election scratching their hands and asking themselves "what the hell happened? How did Dean win so decisively?"
The answer of course will be brutally simple--its called "democracy".
08-04-2003 04:30 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-04-2003 04:32 PM
I think this site is a microcosm of how Dean has been successful. He has built an invisible army of enthusiastic volunteers who work for free on their own time at a keyboard spreading Dean's message.
People like myself, Alison Brown and Charles in Montana, etc. who each give our own independent perspectives on why we support Dean and spread it without taking our talking points from party organizers--we just do it because Dean's message empowers us and in turn we empower him. It is a dialectic where people-powered Howard is being run by Howard powered-people.
The invisible army of mousepads clicking in unison across the nation, will be joined by an army of foot soldiers banging on doors in New Hampshire and Iowa in the dead of winter, and we are mailing letters to voters there already.
Sure the other campaigns have their loyal volunteers and supporters. Kerry is indebted to folks like Patti, for example.
But no other candidate in this race, perhaps in electoral history has generated so much support so early and so quickly. It could be just a passing fad before Dean flames out as just another insurgent who had his fifteen minutes of fame, but I doubt it.
It could also be a political earthquake that is just beginning to register with faint rumblings on the national seismograph, but that will shake the foundations of how politics is done in this country, and returns power to the grassroots.
Time will tell, but my sincere hope is that the Dean campaign is like no other and that come next November George Bush, the Democratic Leadership Council, the media and the pundits all wake up the morning after the election scratching their hands and asking themselves "what the hell happened? How did Dean win so decisively?"
The answer of course will be brutally simple--its called "democracy".
Ann Stewart 292
08-04-2003 04:34 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-04-2003 04:40 PM
I think your right Wayne and Keith. I have learned alot about him from his blog too. It is so busy on his blog I can push refresh in just seconds time and his comment boxes will be up by 5 to 10 comments. I think his online campaigning is incredible and more open to the public on what people think about Dean as a candidate. Maybe the other candidates in future runs for office with take not of this online campaigning and try it too.
I respect Patti and Jenny for their loyaty, but they are highly out numbered at this debate by Dean supporters. Patti has put up a honorable fight. Kerry should be lucky to have her on his side, just like Dean is lucky to have you guys.
Steve and Micheal are people who could go either way. At least they care enough to look at all the option for American's President.
08-04-2003 04:34 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-04-2003 04:40 PM
I think your right Wayne and Keith. I have learned alot about him from his blog too. It is so busy on his blog I can push refresh in just seconds time and his comment boxes will be up by 5 to 10 comments. I think his online campaigning is incredible and more open to the public on what people think about Dean as a candidate. Maybe the other candidates in future runs for office with take not of this online campaigning and try it too.
I respect Patti and Jenny for their loyaty, but they are highly out numbered at this debate by Dean supporters. Patti has put up a honorable fight. Kerry should be lucky to have her on his side, just like Dean is lucky to have you guys.
Steve and Micheal are people who could go either way. At least they care enough to look at all the option for American's President.
Jonathan in GA 293
08-04-2003 04:42 PM ET (US)
The Dean phenomena reminds me of Jimmy Carter. A darkhorse governor. An open nomination without an incumbent.
I just hope his presidency turns out better than Carter's!
08-04-2003 04:42 PM ET (US)
The Dean phenomena reminds me of Jimmy Carter. A darkhorse governor. An open nomination without an incumbent.
I just hope his presidency turns out better than Carter's!
Ann Stewart 294
08-04-2003 04:57 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-04-2003 04:59 PM
I met Jimmy Carter. He signed a book he wrote at Wal-mart here in Nashville. Nice Man!!!
08-04-2003 04:57 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-04-2003 04:59 PM
I met Jimmy Carter. He signed a book he wrote at Wal-mart here in Nashville. Nice Man!!!
Patti Ferschke 295
08-04-2003 10:54 PM ET (US)
I'm back..we went to the beach today..I needed a break,you guys wear me out!Allow me a few moments to read the threads,and I'll see what I come uop with.If or was there any news today re;candidates???PATTI
08-04-2003 10:54 PM ET (US)
I'm back..we went to the beach today..I needed a break,you guys wear me out!Allow me a few moments to read the threads,and I'll see what I come uop with.If or was there any news today re;candidates???PATTI
Ann Stewart 296
08-04-2003 11:32 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-04-2003 11:34 PM
Welcome back Patti.
It is so good to hear from you. I was hoping we hadn't ran you off. You make this debate come alive. It slowed down today, but I feel like the debate will pick up closer to election time, or when I send some more emails out and I have some people from Texas and California who are undecided on the election, but going to vote democrat most likely. My Texas folks have not checked in yet. I just called them on the phone a few hours ago and they had family over so they will be checking in later, but Steven Bohannon is new to the debate site and I think he is still undecided on which Candidate to support.
Welcome back Patti I will be emailing a report to Candidate Kerry that you have been his biggest supporter at the Online election debate.
08-04-2003 11:32 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-04-2003 11:34 PM
Welcome back Patti.
It is so good to hear from you. I was hoping we hadn't ran you off. You make this debate come alive. It slowed down today, but I feel like the debate will pick up closer to election time, or when I send some more emails out and I have some people from Texas and California who are undecided on the election, but going to vote democrat most likely. My Texas folks have not checked in yet. I just called them on the phone a few hours ago and they had family over so they will be checking in later, but Steven Bohannon is new to the debate site and I think he is still undecided on which Candidate to support.
Welcome back Patti I will be emailing a report to Candidate Kerry that you have been his biggest supporter at the Online election debate.
sindhu kumar 297
08-04-2003 11:41 PM ET (US)
did you all hear what dean said on larry king live? and what the panel of experts said about him including bob graham who is running against dean? dean did say that for his vice presidential running mate, he would be choosing somebody from inside the beltway.
08-04-2003 11:41 PM ET (US)
did you all hear what dean said on larry king live? and what the panel of experts said about him including bob graham who is running against dean? dean did say that for his vice presidential running mate, he would be choosing somebody from inside the beltway.
Patti Ferschke 299
08-04-2003 11:50 PM ET (US)
After reading through the threads and watching some news,I have to give DEAN a huge amount of applause and I'm glad he's doing what he's is doing.I think the DEMS needed a big time shake up,however do I think he can win?..absolutley not! I read through the script that Keith sent last night and it is so frightening to think the BUSH team is this wicked and will stop at nothing to globalize what they deam their territory. If you think that what they've been planning re;this economy and the events in the mid-east,they are planning to WIN this election even moreso. It's still my belief Americans will give BUSH a "PASS" on many issues, the economy;jobs and even the 16 words and why we went to war,they don't care!The only thing they care about is their saftey ,which they think BUSH delivers on. We are in very serious times here folks ,the water will become deeper,the lies more pervasive,and we will lose many more lives.If those of you that went to the store and asked "we the people", who these candidates were and they gave you no right answers,we are even in deeper trouble.I agree with the person that said the other candidates are keeping some stuff off the net as they need a base to save for the issues for their campaign..you are right about that.If you look at the record of the BUSH team in terms of names only..he wins. Stack that Bush team with the DAEN team we lose for sure.If you guys just want DEAN because of princilpe..go ahead and have him take his campaign to the 9's,but he will never win and that means four more years of BUSH! I've lived through MONDALE,McGovern,and Dukakis..it is that scene all over again. But listen up folks,the stakes are much higher this time. Every sane person in this country believes for every single minute of their lives,and for the rest of their lives, what we need is the best foreign policy we have ever written or will write,because our very lives will depend on that! On that issue I do not believe DEAN will win ,he will be beaten up,and sad to say, no one will believe him,but his followers. Keep in mind the the press is being kind to DEAN right now,but remember they want BUSH to win,{just like the press supported the war},and will stop at nothing to have BUSH win! So if that means to confuse "we the pepole" ,that's what they will do. OUR only hope is to get KERRY front and forward,as he will trounce BUSH on all the issues as he's got em"[BUSH] on foreign policy and the war,no doubt about it!I am so frightened of four more years of this tyranny,and you'd better be too. What even frightens me more is,if we get Lieberman in the front tier,and Lieberman wins because of "party"allies,and JOHN KERRY loses because of all this DEAN hoopla!
08-04-2003 11:50 PM ET (US)
After reading through the threads and watching some news,I have to give DEAN a huge amount of applause and I'm glad he's doing what he's is doing.I think the DEMS needed a big time shake up,however do I think he can win?..absolutley not! I read through the script that Keith sent last night and it is so frightening to think the BUSH team is this wicked and will stop at nothing to globalize what they deam their territory. If you think that what they've been planning re;this economy and the events in the mid-east,they are planning to WIN this election even moreso. It's still my belief Americans will give BUSH a "PASS" on many issues, the economy;jobs and even the 16 words and why we went to war,they don't care!The only thing they care about is their saftey ,which they think BUSH delivers on. We are in very serious times here folks ,the water will become deeper,the lies more pervasive,and we will lose many more lives.If those of you that went to the store and asked "we the people", who these candidates were and they gave you no right answers,we are even in deeper trouble.I agree with the person that said the other candidates are keeping some stuff off the net as they need a base to save for the issues for their campaign..you are right about that.If you look at the record of the BUSH team in terms of names only..he wins. Stack that Bush team with the DAEN team we lose for sure.If you guys just want DEAN because of princilpe..go ahead and have him take his campaign to the 9's,but he will never win and that means four more years of BUSH! I've lived through MONDALE,McGovern,and Dukakis..it is that scene all over again. But listen up folks,the stakes are much higher this time. Every sane person in this country believes for every single minute of their lives,and for the rest of their lives, what we need is the best foreign policy we have ever written or will write,because our very lives will depend on that! On that issue I do not believe DEAN will win ,he will be beaten up,and sad to say, no one will believe him,but his followers. Keep in mind the the press is being kind to DEAN right now,but remember they want BUSH to win,{just like the press supported the war},and will stop at nothing to have BUSH win! So if that means to confuse "we the pepole" ,that's what they will do. OUR only hope is to get KERRY front and forward,as he will trounce BUSH on all the issues as he's got em"[BUSH] on foreign policy and the war,no doubt about it!I am so frightened of four more years of this tyranny,and you'd better be too. What even frightens me more is,if we get Lieberman in the front tier,and Lieberman wins because of "party"allies,and JOHN KERRY loses because of all this DEAN hoopla!
Ann Stewart 300
08-05-2003 12:27 AM ET (US)
I have a brother who stated to me that he thinks Leiberman has the best chance of winning agaist Bush. Soon I am Going to post a comments page on Leiberman and Gephart. I think alot of people believe they still have a chance.
Thanks Patti That's some good info. I can't wait to hear what Keith will say. The 2 of you have become friendly war mates.Anyway I will be builting and up dating this site alot.
Sindhu I didn't get to see that because I've been on line so much editing all the sites. Any way I wish I had seen it.
08-05-2003 12:27 AM ET (US)
I have a brother who stated to me that he thinks Leiberman has the best chance of winning agaist Bush. Soon I am Going to post a comments page on Leiberman and Gephart. I think alot of people believe they still have a chance.
Thanks Patti That's some good info. I can't wait to hear what Keith will say. The 2 of you have become friendly war mates.Anyway I will be builting and up dating this site alot.
Sindhu I didn't get to see that because I've been on line so much editing all the sites. Any way I wish I had seen it.
Patti Ferschke 301
08-05-2003 01:07 AM ET (US)
Lieberman "IS" a great person,but he's a drone of a speaker.
I just heard him on msnbc this PM on the news.Even my hubby
did a double take on that one and hubby is pretty sharp when it come to speeches as he gives many. Hubby said:"who will listen to that and what was his message?,I didn't get it". He had no fire in the last election ,they ran a horrible campaign,and he's too much ,way too much a Repulican in his thinking!..NOT FOR ME,and I don't think for this campaign,much less President! THE goal here is to OUST BUSH,not put up more platforms that confuse "we the people"..Lieberman does do that,but he still is a good JOE !
08-05-2003 01:07 AM ET (US)
Lieberman "IS" a great person,but he's a drone of a speaker.
I just heard him on msnbc this PM on the news.Even my hubby
did a double take on that one and hubby is pretty sharp when it come to speeches as he gives many. Hubby said:"who will listen to that and what was his message?,I didn't get it". He had no fire in the last election ,they ran a horrible campaign,and he's too much ,way too much a Repulican in his thinking!..NOT FOR ME,and I don't think for this campaign,much less President! THE goal here is to OUST BUSH,not put up more platforms that confuse "we the people"..Lieberman does do that,but he still is a good JOE !
Ann Stewart 302
08-05-2003 01:09 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-05-2003 01:10 AM
Hey Patti
If you give me a link with a title I will start a links page of related news. Instead of send it to me by email I will make a links page for any related news articles you guys want me to post. Tomorrow I will go back though the debate aricles and start making a link page from this site on related news you guys want shared that support your ideas. Any way it is 12:10am in Nashville and I love you all for coming again today I will sign off and say good night to all. May God keep you safe.
Ann
08-05-2003 01:09 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-05-2003 01:10 AM
Hey Patti
If you give me a link with a title I will start a links page of related news. Instead of send it to me by email I will make a links page for any related news articles you guys want me to post. Tomorrow I will go back though the debate aricles and start making a link page from this site on related news you guys want shared that support your ideas. Any way it is 12:10am in Nashville and I love you all for coming again today I will sign off and say good night to all. May God keep you safe.
Ann
Ann Stewart 303
08-05-2003 01:13 AM ET (US)
I think that's a good message. I will tell my brother you said that. Tell your sharp hubby hello from the debate folks and rest well my dear Patti, because tomorrow the Dean Team may be back for action.
08-05-2003 01:13 AM ET (US)
I think that's a good message. I will tell my brother you said that. Tell your sharp hubby hello from the debate folks and rest well my dear Patti, because tomorrow the Dean Team may be back for action.
Alison Brown 304
08-05-2003 01:39 AM ET (US)
Did anyone catch Dean's appearance on Larry King tonight? I missed it, and while the comments about it on the Dean blog have been very positive, I would like to hear an outsider's opinion.
08-05-2003 01:39 AM ET (US)
Did anyone catch Dean's appearance on Larry King tonight? I missed it, and while the comments about it on the Dean blog have been very positive, I would like to hear an outsider's opinion.
Ann Stewart 305
08-05-2003 01:52 AM ET (US)
I just saw Dean on News Night with Aaron Brown on CNN. They said it's probably not just a pasting hight in support. They said it will probably last.
08-05-2003 01:52 AM ET (US)
I just saw Dean on News Night with Aaron Brown on CNN. They said it's probably not just a pasting hight in support. They said it will probably last.
Ann Stewart 306
08-05-2003 01:54 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-05-2003 02:28 AM
Hi Alison I can't believe your still up, but Sindhu saw Dean on Larry King. Maybe she will report on it tomorrow. Well like the song says:
Good night sweetheart it's time to go.
08-05-2003 01:54 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-05-2003 02:28 AM
Hi Alison I can't believe your still up, but Sindhu saw Dean on Larry King. Maybe she will report on it tomorrow. Well like the song says:
Good night sweetheart it's time to go.
Becky B. 307
08-05-2003 02:52 AM ET (US)
On offense to anyone, but you all wrong. Bush is a great President. THE BEST THERE IS!
08-05-2003 02:52 AM ET (US)
On offense to anyone, but you all wrong. Bush is a great President. THE BEST THERE IS!
Patti Ferschke 308
08-05-2003 03:46 AM ET (US)
NO DOUBT ABOUT IT DEAN HAS THE FIRE! I JUST FINISHED WATCHING DEAN ON LARRY KING AND A FEW "RED FLAGS" CAME TO MY ATTENTION.DEAN SAID,;"SOMETIMES I SAY THIHNGS I SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT OUT BEFORE SAYING THEM".LISTEN UP FOLKS,WE ALREADY HAVE A RESIDENT THAT LIVES AT 1600 PENSYLVANIA AVE. THAT DOES THE VERY SAME THING ,WE DON'T NEED ANOTHER. THIS WILL BE HIS DEMISE IN THE DEBATES,AND HE WILL CREAM US IN FOREIGN POLICY.HE ALSO SAID HE'D "CHOOSE AN "INSIDER"FOR A V.P.". IF AN INSIDER IS GOOD ENOUGH TO BE THE V.P AN INSIDER MAY ONE DAY BE PRESIDENT,SHOULD SOMETHING HAPPEN TO HIM. WELL,DAH,SO WHAT IS WRONG WITH AN "INSIDER" TO START FIRST OFF.IN MY BOOK ,IN THESE TIMES,WE NEED KERRY! PATTI
08-05-2003 03:46 AM ET (US)
NO DOUBT ABOUT IT DEAN HAS THE FIRE! I JUST FINISHED WATCHING DEAN ON LARRY KING AND A FEW "RED FLAGS" CAME TO MY ATTENTION.DEAN SAID,;"SOMETIMES I SAY THIHNGS I SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT OUT BEFORE SAYING THEM".LISTEN UP FOLKS,WE ALREADY HAVE A RESIDENT THAT LIVES AT 1600 PENSYLVANIA AVE. THAT DOES THE VERY SAME THING ,WE DON'T NEED ANOTHER. THIS WILL BE HIS DEMISE IN THE DEBATES,AND HE WILL CREAM US IN FOREIGN POLICY.HE ALSO SAID HE'D "CHOOSE AN "INSIDER"FOR A V.P.". IF AN INSIDER IS GOOD ENOUGH TO BE THE V.P AN INSIDER MAY ONE DAY BE PRESIDENT,SHOULD SOMETHING HAPPEN TO HIM. WELL,DAH,SO WHAT IS WRONG WITH AN "INSIDER" TO START FIRST OFF.IN MY BOOK ,IN THESE TIMES,WE NEED KERRY! PATTI
Alison Brown 309
08-05-2003 03:50 AM ET (US)
Becky,
Can you back that up for us, please? You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I'd like to hear exactly what you think Bush has done for our country that makes him a great president.
08-05-2003 03:50 AM ET (US)
Becky,
Can you back that up for us, please? You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I'd like to hear exactly what you think Bush has done for our country that makes him a great president.
Keith Brekhus 310
08-05-2003 09:39 AM ET (US)
I think the most "electable" Democrat will be the one who wins the nomination. If any of the candidates are seen as too inept, too frightening, too dull or too mean I think the Democrats and Independents who vote in the primaries will sort them out.
I think the race will come down to Dean, Kerry and Lieberman. May the best candidate win and beat Bush in 2004. I think that man should and will be Howard Dean, but we will see.
I'll have more to say about Lieberman, Bush and the election later but I am at work now so I'll leave it at that.
08-05-2003 09:39 AM ET (US)
I think the most "electable" Democrat will be the one who wins the nomination. If any of the candidates are seen as too inept, too frightening, too dull or too mean I think the Democrats and Independents who vote in the primaries will sort them out.
I think the race will come down to Dean, Kerry and Lieberman. May the best candidate win and beat Bush in 2004. I think that man should and will be Howard Dean, but we will see.
I'll have more to say about Lieberman, Bush and the election later but I am at work now so I'll leave it at that.
Keith Brekhus 311
08-05-2003 09:53 AM ET (US)
We need Dean's fiscal discipline in Washington. When Republicans talk about being conservative with money don't believe the hype. The CATO Institute just released a report illustrating how Bush has way outspent Clinton and how his economic policies are ruinous to the country. Its time to restore real fiscal responsibility to the White House!
{text below from daily kos with excerpts from CATO Institute report}
The CATO Institute, that bastion of libertarianism and worship of free unfettered markets, is a natural ally of the GOP. Or used to be, back when Republicans where responsible stewards of the budget.
The Bush administration's newly released budget projections reveal an anticipated budget deficit of $450 billion for the current fiscal year, up another $151 billion since February. Supporters and critics of the administration are tripping over themselves to blame the deficit on tax cuts, the war, and a slow economy. But the fact is we have mounting deficits because George W. Bush is the most gratuitous big spender to occupy the White House since Jimmy Carter. One could say that he has become the "Mother of All Big Spenders."
Woah! Since Jimmy Carter? He was a -- gasp! -- a "liberal"! But Bush is certainly better than Clinton, isn't he? Clinton was evil, and also a "LIEberal". Wasn't he?
That the nation's budgetary situation continues to deteriorate is because the administration's fiscal policy has been decidedly more about politics than policy [...]
Such blatant political maneuvering can only be described as Clintonian.
But perhaps we are being unfair to former President Clinton. After all, in inflation-adjusted terms, Clinton had overseen a total spending increase of only 3.5 percent at the same point in his administration. More importantly, after his first three years in office, non-defense discretionary spending actually went down by 0.7 percent. This is contrasted by Bush's three-year total spending increase of 15.6 percent and a 20.8 percent explosion in non-defense discretionary spending.
The numbers are startling.
In the first three years of the Clinton presidency, government spending increased just 3.5 percent. Total. Non-defense discretionary spending actually went down 0.7 percent.
For Bush, the numbers are a 15.6 percent increase in spending, and a massive 20.8 percent increase in non-defense discretionary spending.
Note the "non-defense" part of that last sentence. They can't pin this mess on the "war on terror".
But this CATO report saves the best for last:
Sadly, the Bush administration has consistently sacrificed sound policy to the god of political expediency. From farm subsidies to Medicare expansion, purchasing reelection votes has consistently trumped principle. In fact, what we have now is a president who spends like Carter and panders like Clinton.
08-05-2003 09:53 AM ET (US)
We need Dean's fiscal discipline in Washington. When Republicans talk about being conservative with money don't believe the hype. The CATO Institute just released a report illustrating how Bush has way outspent Clinton and how his economic policies are ruinous to the country. Its time to restore real fiscal responsibility to the White House!
{text below from daily kos with excerpts from CATO Institute report}
The CATO Institute, that bastion of libertarianism and worship of free unfettered markets, is a natural ally of the GOP. Or used to be, back when Republicans where responsible stewards of the budget.
The Bush administration's newly released budget projections reveal an anticipated budget deficit of $450 billion for the current fiscal year, up another $151 billion since February. Supporters and critics of the administration are tripping over themselves to blame the deficit on tax cuts, the war, and a slow economy. But the fact is we have mounting deficits because George W. Bush is the most gratuitous big spender to occupy the White House since Jimmy Carter. One could say that he has become the "Mother of All Big Spenders."
Woah! Since Jimmy Carter? He was a -- gasp! -- a "liberal"! But Bush is certainly better than Clinton, isn't he? Clinton was evil, and also a "LIEberal". Wasn't he?
That the nation's budgetary situation continues to deteriorate is because the administration's fiscal policy has been decidedly more about politics than policy [...]
Such blatant political maneuvering can only be described as Clintonian.
But perhaps we are being unfair to former President Clinton. After all, in inflation-adjusted terms, Clinton had overseen a total spending increase of only 3.5 percent at the same point in his administration. More importantly, after his first three years in office, non-defense discretionary spending actually went down by 0.7 percent. This is contrasted by Bush's three-year total spending increase of 15.6 percent and a 20.8 percent explosion in non-defense discretionary spending.
The numbers are startling.
In the first three years of the Clinton presidency, government spending increased just 3.5 percent. Total. Non-defense discretionary spending actually went down 0.7 percent.
For Bush, the numbers are a 15.6 percent increase in spending, and a massive 20.8 percent increase in non-defense discretionary spending.
Note the "non-defense" part of that last sentence. They can't pin this mess on the "war on terror".
But this CATO report saves the best for last:
Sadly, the Bush administration has consistently sacrificed sound policy to the god of political expediency. From farm subsidies to Medicare expansion, purchasing reelection votes has consistently trumped principle. In fact, what we have now is a president who spends like Carter and panders like Clinton.
Chris 312
08-05-2003 01:54 PM ET (US)
World opinion will help chose who becomes the next President. It will effect the American voters. When the evidence on the war with Iraq starts coming in people will turn on Bush if
1. They find no Weapons of mass desruction.
2. They don’t find or kill Osama Bin Ladin
3. They don’t find or kill Sadam Hussien
4. They lose a lot of American troops
5. They don’t start showing a recovery in the national dept
World opinion will effect who the voters will vote for.
I’m not sure who to vote for on the democrat side, but unless Bush proves more reasons on the war with Iraq on WMD or gets the national dept down I will think about voting Democratic.
I feel like Bush has done a lot of good for the country of Iraq. I mean by getting rid the Sadam’s Control. They are better off without Sadam. I also think the old Democratic way of He should be more worried about the Folks at home. He needs to start taking care of our country instead of others.
08-05-2003 01:54 PM ET (US)
World opinion will help chose who becomes the next President. It will effect the American voters. When the evidence on the war with Iraq starts coming in people will turn on Bush if
1. They find no Weapons of mass desruction.
2. They don’t find or kill Osama Bin Ladin
3. They don’t find or kill Sadam Hussien
4. They lose a lot of American troops
5. They don’t start showing a recovery in the national dept
World opinion will effect who the voters will vote for.
I’m not sure who to vote for on the democrat side, but unless Bush proves more reasons on the war with Iraq on WMD or gets the national dept down I will think about voting Democratic.
I feel like Bush has done a lot of good for the country of Iraq. I mean by getting rid the Sadam’s Control. They are better off without Sadam. I also think the old Democratic way of He should be more worried about the Folks at home. He needs to start taking care of our country instead of others.
Patti Ferschke 313
08-05-2003 02:51 PM ET (US)
CHRIS,that person is JOHN KERRY. We need a strong foreign policy that relates to terrorism like never before. KERRY delivers on this one. Let there be NO doubt about it. IT is about policy. If we don't get this economy back on track;if we don't get our jobs back ,{and I mean good jobs},the whole world is at risk..that's just where GWB want's us to be! GWB want's to rule ! Learn all about John KERRY and spread the word !
08-05-2003 02:51 PM ET (US)
CHRIS,that person is JOHN KERRY. We need a strong foreign policy that relates to terrorism like never before. KERRY delivers on this one. Let there be NO doubt about it. IT is about policy. If we don't get this economy back on track;if we don't get our jobs back ,{and I mean good jobs},the whole world is at risk..that's just where GWB want's us to be! GWB want's to rule ! Learn all about John KERRY and spread the word !
doug from indiana 314
08-05-2003 03:07 PM ET (US)
dean is the man.
bush is going down.
and lots of people KNOW this war on terrorism is just a way for pnac and others to gain control over the population.
9-11?
i'm not a fucking kid, give me the story straight.
9-11 was a fucking hoax, people died, but not for the reasons anyone wants to believe they died for.
there are still HUNDREDS of unanwsered questions about 9-11, i dont believe the government's story for a min.
08-05-2003 03:07 PM ET (US)
dean is the man.
bush is going down.
and lots of people KNOW this war on terrorism is just a way for pnac and others to gain control over the population.
9-11?
i'm not a fucking kid, give me the story straight.
9-11 was a fucking hoax, people died, but not for the reasons anyone wants to believe they died for.
there are still HUNDREDS of unanwsered questions about 9-11, i dont believe the government's story for a min.
doug from indiana 315
08-05-2003 03:09 PM ET (US)
We declare a national emergency in uncovering what really happened on 9/11/2001 through an immediate call for an independent collaborative investigation worldwide. The U.S. government could help us but instead is doing everything it can to stop any investigations into 9/11.
The People's Investigation of 9/11 is an assemblage of international researchers and activists. Task-based functional groups work together on various projects, including research topics and volunteer efforts, in unison with other 9/11 evidence-finding efforts. Until a legitimate independent citizen's committee is funded and recognized by the U.S. government or a world political body or court, it is left up to the citizens of the world to investigate and share what they know with others.
It is critical that you at the least learn what is already known -- If you are new to the 9/11 Investigation, try starting with What We Know and the resources to the left. The Center for Cooperative Research is also a good starting place.
Please join our effort and begin learning, teaching, investigating and organizing as a people's investigator.
taken from www.911pi.com
08-05-2003 03:09 PM ET (US)
We declare a national emergency in uncovering what really happened on 9/11/2001 through an immediate call for an independent collaborative investigation worldwide. The U.S. government could help us but instead is doing everything it can to stop any investigations into 9/11.
The People's Investigation of 9/11 is an assemblage of international researchers and activists. Task-based functional groups work together on various projects, including research topics and volunteer efforts, in unison with other 9/11 evidence-finding efforts. Until a legitimate independent citizen's committee is funded and recognized by the U.S. government or a world political body or court, it is left up to the citizens of the world to investigate and share what they know with others.
It is critical that you at the least learn what is already known -- If you are new to the 9/11 Investigation, try starting with What We Know and the resources to the left. The Center for Cooperative Research is also a good starting place.
Please join our effort and begin learning, teaching, investigating and organizing as a people's investigator.
taken from www.911pi.com
doug from indiana 316
08-05-2003 03:11 PM ET (US)
new bush ad
http://www.takebackthemedia.com/onearmy.html
08-05-2003 03:11 PM ET (US)
new bush ad
http://www.takebackthemedia.com/onearmy.html
Patti Ferschke 317
08-05-2003 03:18 PM ET (US)
DOUG, that's why we need KERRY and not Dean..he will fail on that policy ,and get crushed by BUSH in the debates. We may need to"sacrifice" our ideals and put them on hold for a while just to get BUSH out so we can move on..KERRY will do this for us!
08-05-2003 03:18 PM ET (US)
DOUG, that's why we need KERRY and not Dean..he will fail on that policy ,and get crushed by BUSH in the debates. We may need to"sacrifice" our ideals and put them on hold for a while just to get BUSH out so we can move on..KERRY will do this for us!
doug from indiana 318
08-05-2003 04:05 PM ET (US)
patti, look at the polls, kerry is not going anywhere.
dean will take us there, and he will pick someone strong on national defense..maybe like general wesley clark.
anyway the people are and will keep getting behind dean, he is the one.
08-05-2003 04:05 PM ET (US)
patti, look at the polls, kerry is not going anywhere.
dean will take us there, and he will pick someone strong on national defense..maybe like general wesley clark.
anyway the people are and will keep getting behind dean, he is the one.
Wayne in Missouri 319
08-05-2003 04:21 PM ET (US)
While Dean is rising faster in the polls than Kerry I think either of them can still win the Democratic nomination. As could Lieberman or Gephardt. I would much prefer Dean or Kerry to Lieberman myself.
Actually I think Dean will do very well in the debates because debates are all about expectations and as such heavily favor outsider candidates over Washington insiders. I'm not saying this is necessarily the way it should be, but it is the way it is. Remember Al Gore was supposed to be the master debater and Bush was supposed to get creamed in the debates in 2000 and yet even though Bush looked shaky in the debates the perception was that Gore was "too polished" and "too rehearsed" and that he didn't eat Bush up and this then become a major victory for Bush.
As a Dean supporter I hope the meme that "Dean will get creamed in the debates" continues. It plays right into his hands. I suspect Bush will mostly try to duck such debates but will end up having to agree to two debates. This time the high expectations will be on Bush not his opponent. Beating Dean in a debate is a bar I don't think Bush can clear.
08-05-2003 04:21 PM ET (US)
While Dean is rising faster in the polls than Kerry I think either of them can still win the Democratic nomination. As could Lieberman or Gephardt. I would much prefer Dean or Kerry to Lieberman myself.
Actually I think Dean will do very well in the debates because debates are all about expectations and as such heavily favor outsider candidates over Washington insiders. I'm not saying this is necessarily the way it should be, but it is the way it is. Remember Al Gore was supposed to be the master debater and Bush was supposed to get creamed in the debates in 2000 and yet even though Bush looked shaky in the debates the perception was that Gore was "too polished" and "too rehearsed" and that he didn't eat Bush up and this then become a major victory for Bush.
As a Dean supporter I hope the meme that "Dean will get creamed in the debates" continues. It plays right into his hands. I suspect Bush will mostly try to duck such debates but will end up having to agree to two debates. This time the high expectations will be on Bush not his opponent. Beating Dean in a debate is a bar I don't think Bush can clear.
Patti Ferschke 320
08-05-2003 04:22 PM ET (US)
KERRY is still in the top tier,wait,hang on we'll go there to #1. That's all relative propaganda out there on DEAN. Don't believe for one minute he'll win against BUSH.It's what the media wants you to believe as they want BUSH to win. I've been down this road three times before,we want to win, we have to win and that win is KERRY! The TEAMSTERS just backed the wrong guy, but the environmentalists will back KERRY ,they out-number the TEAMSTERS ! WE ENVIRONMENTALISTS {TREE HUGGERS}ARE THE "SMART" ONES AS WE KNOW IF WE DON'T TAKE CARE OF THIS PLANET NOW AND RID OURSELVES OF ROOTS AND SEEDS OF TERRORISM,..WE ALL LOSE. IT'S ABOUT POLICY GUYS,AND IT'S TIME TO GET THAT RIGHT THIS GO-A- ROUND.
08-05-2003 04:22 PM ET (US)
KERRY is still in the top tier,wait,hang on we'll go there to #1. That's all relative propaganda out there on DEAN. Don't believe for one minute he'll win against BUSH.It's what the media wants you to believe as they want BUSH to win. I've been down this road three times before,we want to win, we have to win and that win is KERRY! The TEAMSTERS just backed the wrong guy, but the environmentalists will back KERRY ,they out-number the TEAMSTERS ! WE ENVIRONMENTALISTS {TREE HUGGERS}ARE THE "SMART" ONES AS WE KNOW IF WE DON'T TAKE CARE OF THIS PLANET NOW AND RID OURSELVES OF ROOTS AND SEEDS OF TERRORISM,..WE ALL LOSE. IT'S ABOUT POLICY GUYS,AND IT'S TIME TO GET THAT RIGHT THIS GO-A- ROUND.
Keith Brekhus 321
08-05-2003 04:38 PM ET (US)
Dean is popular with the party's base not the establishment, but don't let the Mcgovern comparisons fool you. All the Dean naysayers are kind of reminiscent of the Reagan naysayers in 1979 and early 1980. This article comes from the Nation magazine's online beat....
http://www.thenation.com/thebeat/index.mhtml?bid=1&pid=871
The comparison that comes to mind when Lieberman bashes candidates who are popular with the party's base voters is not to the 1972 race, but rather to the 1980 contest for the Republican presidential nomination.
That year, moderate Republicans were horrified by the prospect that the party cadres were preparing to nominate former California Governor Ronald Reagan for president. Reagan's foes warned that if the conservative icon became the nominee, the November election results would be as disastrous as the 1964 campaign where standard-bearing conservative Barry Goldwater got trounced.
The pundits repeated the Goldwater-Reagan comparison constantly; even after Reagan's campaign took off, Time magazine declared that, "His biggest problem may be that the very hard-line conservative positions that appeal to the enthusiasts who vote in G.O.P. primaries are exactly those that might not attract the much larger body of people who vote in November." There was even talk that former President Gerald Ford might have to be drafted into the primary competition in order to stop Reagan. But the party faithful could not be dissuaded. They followed their principles and their hearts and went with Reagan.
08-05-2003 04:38 PM ET (US)
Dean is popular with the party's base not the establishment, but don't let the Mcgovern comparisons fool you. All the Dean naysayers are kind of reminiscent of the Reagan naysayers in 1979 and early 1980. This article comes from the Nation magazine's online beat....
http://www.thenation.com/thebeat/index.mhtml?bid=1&pid=871
The comparison that comes to mind when Lieberman bashes candidates who are popular with the party's base voters is not to the 1972 race, but rather to the 1980 contest for the Republican presidential nomination.
That year, moderate Republicans were horrified by the prospect that the party cadres were preparing to nominate former California Governor Ronald Reagan for president. Reagan's foes warned that if the conservative icon became the nominee, the November election results would be as disastrous as the 1964 campaign where standard-bearing conservative Barry Goldwater got trounced.
The pundits repeated the Goldwater-Reagan comparison constantly; even after Reagan's campaign took off, Time magazine declared that, "His biggest problem may be that the very hard-line conservative positions that appeal to the enthusiasts who vote in G.O.P. primaries are exactly those that might not attract the much larger body of people who vote in November." There was even talk that former President Gerald Ford might have to be drafted into the primary competition in order to stop Reagan. But the party faithful could not be dissuaded. They followed their principles and their hearts and went with Reagan.
Ann Stewart 322
08-05-2003 04:41 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-05-2003 04:42 PM
Hello Ladies and Gentlemen
Welcome to the debate Doug, and welcome back Patti, Keith,Becky B., Wayne, Alison and Chris. I just finished reading your comments. Doug WOW what a strong opinion you have.
I was going to share my experiences today again. I asked 2 people who they were going to vote for. 1 said Dean and than she told me why the other said that he wasn’t sure yet. He wanted to see the candidates first than I told him about this site. Anyway, I just wanted to say to people that you should talk to people about the man you support and why you support him. Help your candidate by spreading the news about him or her. That’s the one of the best things you can do for the man you support. That’s why I built this web site.
I will get busy today and start a links page for all the links that have been given to me at the debate.
Thank you so much for checking in today.
08-05-2003 04:41 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-05-2003 04:42 PM
Hello Ladies and Gentlemen
Welcome to the debate Doug, and welcome back Patti, Keith,Becky B., Wayne, Alison and Chris. I just finished reading your comments. Doug WOW what a strong opinion you have.
I was going to share my experiences today again. I asked 2 people who they were going to vote for. 1 said Dean and than she told me why the other said that he wasn’t sure yet. He wanted to see the candidates first than I told him about this site. Anyway, I just wanted to say to people that you should talk to people about the man you support and why you support him. Help your candidate by spreading the news about him or her. That’s the one of the best things you can do for the man you support. That’s why I built this web site.
I will get busy today and start a links page for all the links that have been given to me at the debate.
Thank you so much for checking in today.
Ann Stewart 323
08-05-2003 04:45 PM ET (US)
Patti wanted this posted on Leiberman.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0805-11.htm
08-05-2003 04:45 PM ET (US)
Patti wanted this posted on Leiberman.
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0805-11.htm
Keith Brekhus 324
08-05-2003 04:55 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-05-2003 05:00 PM
For Democrats* who have been out in the cold for the last couple of years, Lieberman offers about as much warmth as a wet blanket. I hope he doesn't get the nomination. Dean is my first choice, Kerry 2nd, and Lieberman 9th out of the nine candidates who are running on the Democratic side.
* {Keith's disclaimer: I am not a registered Democrat but will vote in the Democratic primary}
08-05-2003 04:55 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-05-2003 05:00 PM
For Democrats* who have been out in the cold for the last couple of years, Lieberman offers about as much warmth as a wet blanket. I hope he doesn't get the nomination. Dean is my first choice, Kerry 2nd, and Lieberman 9th out of the nine candidates who are running on the Democratic side.
* {Keith's disclaimer: I am not a registered Democrat but will vote in the Democratic primary}
Alison Brown 325
08-05-2003 05:01 PM ET (US)
Patti,
I don't want a president who will sacrifice his ideals and put them on hold when it's politically helpful. The argument that this kind of thing will help win the general election can also be used when talking about the importance getting support from the Senate and the House, or looking ahead to re-election. I want a president who will stand up for his ideals NOW, not at some hazy point in the future when it's finally "safe."
Go Dean!
08-05-2003 05:01 PM ET (US)
Patti,
I don't want a president who will sacrifice his ideals and put them on hold when it's politically helpful. The argument that this kind of thing will help win the general election can also be used when talking about the importance getting support from the Senate and the House, or looking ahead to re-election. I want a president who will stand up for his ideals NOW, not at some hazy point in the future when it's finally "safe."
Go Dean!
Patti Ferschke 326
08-05-2003 06:29 PM ET (US)
You DEAN supporters may have to sacrifice your ideals if you want a BUSH-OUT this next election. That's what DEAN himself says! It will take a candidate that stood firm on going to IRAQ {I too, was not for going to IRAQ},to win this election. Here's why I think so. The country is still in shock and awe post 911. BUSH went to war on a message of revenge {and other lies and deceptions}, promoted that revenge in the "guise" of "patriotism". The country bought that idea. BUSH had everyone convinced it was "the right thing to do"....and he still does ! Watch the threats re: "terrorism" rise to the occasion and "we the peolple" will want the best guy in there to write the policy that STOPS these threats. If it's DEAN that writes this policy..you can bet you will get BUSH. We need an "insider",that can write this policy and to heck with the past thing "that govenors win elections"! It would have been totally irresponsible by any "INSIDER" to not back the President at that time if he were going to run in this election,should another "event" occur. Now we know the difference between the truths and the deceptions and if you want BUSH out we go with the best person to that..JOHN KERRY will give us the best policy !
08-05-2003 06:29 PM ET (US)
You DEAN supporters may have to sacrifice your ideals if you want a BUSH-OUT this next election. That's what DEAN himself says! It will take a candidate that stood firm on going to IRAQ {I too, was not for going to IRAQ},to win this election. Here's why I think so. The country is still in shock and awe post 911. BUSH went to war on a message of revenge {and other lies and deceptions}, promoted that revenge in the "guise" of "patriotism". The country bought that idea. BUSH had everyone convinced it was "the right thing to do"....and he still does ! Watch the threats re: "terrorism" rise to the occasion and "we the peolple" will want the best guy in there to write the policy that STOPS these threats. If it's DEAN that writes this policy..you can bet you will get BUSH. We need an "insider",that can write this policy and to heck with the past thing "that govenors win elections"! It would have been totally irresponsible by any "INSIDER" to not back the President at that time if he were going to run in this election,should another "event" occur. Now we know the difference between the truths and the deceptions and if you want BUSH out we go with the best person to that..JOHN KERRY will give us the best policy !
Ann Stewart 327
08-05-2003 06:36 PM ET (US)
I was thinking this is the best way to have a debate. At least this way no one can pyshical hurt anybody.
You guys are great for all your hard work on your thoughtful comments. I will be transfering the new comments of the last 2 days tonight.
Good Job Supporters
You all seem to be sticking to your guns.
Now that's loyalty
08-05-2003 06:36 PM ET (US)
I was thinking this is the best way to have a debate. At least this way no one can pyshical hurt anybody.
You guys are great for all your hard work on your thoughtful comments. I will be transfering the new comments of the last 2 days tonight.
Good Job Supporters
You all seem to be sticking to your guns.
Now that's loyalty
Patti Ferschke 328
08-05-2003 06:52 PM ET (US)
Ann will do a post that supports what I have to say on my previous post........"we are a nation of sheep",but you go DEAN supporters you are NOT that! Be sure and read the whole article,and you will see why BUSH will win,and why Americans will forgive him on all those lies..they are scared! It will take A KERRY to deflect those fears,that's why I stand behind KERRY,he was right to support BUSH !
08-05-2003 06:52 PM ET (US)
Ann will do a post that supports what I have to say on my previous post........"we are a nation of sheep",but you go DEAN supporters you are NOT that! Be sure and read the whole article,and you will see why BUSH will win,and why Americans will forgive him on all those lies..they are scared! It will take A KERRY to deflect those fears,that's why I stand behind KERRY,he was right to support BUSH !
Ann Stewart 329
08-05-2003 07:12 PM ET (US)
Sure Patti
I will post it just post the link for me or send the link by email and I will put it on the new page under Kerry or the link page I just made. You can copy and paste it here at the debate and I will get it.
I have to leave my computer for a little and run to get some stuff done, but I will be back to finish transfers on comments tonight.
08-05-2003 07:12 PM ET (US)
Sure Patti
I will post it just post the link for me or send the link by email and I will put it on the new page under Kerry or the link page I just made. You can copy and paste it here at the debate and I will get it.
I have to leave my computer for a little and run to get some stuff done, but I will be back to finish transfers on comments tonight.
Keith Brekhus 331
08-05-2003 07:40 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-05-2003 07:42 PM
I think it is the wrong message to allay our fears caused from 15 Saudis, 3 Egyptians and one United Arab Emirite hijacking jets and crashing them into American buildings, to turn around and exploit those fears by bombing Iraq.
I think Kerry, Edwards, Lieberman and Gephardt send the wrong message that in order to be credible on National Security you have to support Bush's war built upon exaggerations and lies and not based on any link between Iraq and 9/11 or any evidence of amassing WMDs.
Keep in mind 23 Senators, including Graham who is running for President, and Lincoln Chafee and Jim Jeffords (a Republican and an Independent),had the courage to vote against the war as did 133 Representatives (including Kucinich, running for President, and 6 Republicans).
John Kerry could have courageously stood up with these 156 elected leaders and said no to the war, but for some reason he didn't.
Now, I won't make the charge that Kerry is lacking in conviction, or that Dean himself doesn't flip-flop or make political calculations (all politicians do at some time or another) but if Kerry had voted against the war he might have my loyalty today. I will vote for him over Bush in a heartbeat, but Kerry's war vote is one reason I prefer Dean, who had the courage to speak out against the attack on Iraq at the get go, when others told him that would be a bad political move...instead it may have been the best thing Dean could have done to solidify his support.
In February half of Americans were against going to war...that half has found a voice in Howard Dean.
08-05-2003 07:40 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-05-2003 07:42 PM
I think it is the wrong message to allay our fears caused from 15 Saudis, 3 Egyptians and one United Arab Emirite hijacking jets and crashing them into American buildings, to turn around and exploit those fears by bombing Iraq.
I think Kerry, Edwards, Lieberman and Gephardt send the wrong message that in order to be credible on National Security you have to support Bush's war built upon exaggerations and lies and not based on any link between Iraq and 9/11 or any evidence of amassing WMDs.
Keep in mind 23 Senators, including Graham who is running for President, and Lincoln Chafee and Jim Jeffords (a Republican and an Independent),had the courage to vote against the war as did 133 Representatives (including Kucinich, running for President, and 6 Republicans).
John Kerry could have courageously stood up with these 156 elected leaders and said no to the war, but for some reason he didn't.
Now, I won't make the charge that Kerry is lacking in conviction, or that Dean himself doesn't flip-flop or make political calculations (all politicians do at some time or another) but if Kerry had voted against the war he might have my loyalty today. I will vote for him over Bush in a heartbeat, but Kerry's war vote is one reason I prefer Dean, who had the courage to speak out against the attack on Iraq at the get go, when others told him that would be a bad political move...instead it may have been the best thing Dean could have done to solidify his support.
In February half of Americans were against going to war...that half has found a voice in Howard Dean.
Ann Stewart 333
08-05-2003 11:08 PM ET (US)
Dear ladies and gentlemen:
I recently emailed CNN tonight and told them about the 2004 Election Debate we have here. I don’t know if they will say anything about it, but you never know what the press will think is a story. Anyway this is what I wrote:
Dear CNN
Greetings from Ann Stewart
I just recently made a 2004 Election debate site.. My Election 2004 debate site has gotten really heavily hit, with supporters of Candidates Dean, Kerry, Lieberman and President Bush. I was wondering if CNN could do a report on the online Internet debate fighting between the supporters. I have never made a site that has gotten this much attention this fast. I just built this site 5 days ago, and it already has about almost 1000 hits on it. People are passionate about politics. They want to say how they feel about the Candidates. I think this debate is interesting, because it tells the point of view of the public, the voters and people who care about America.
It has also been very educational for me to hear other people’s facts, beliefs, opinions and why they support the candidate they support.
I thought maybe CNN might be interested too.
The link to the online debate is:
http://election2004.4t.com
You have to click on the debate from there.
Thank you so much
Ann Stewart
A Friendly CNN Fan
I will write ABC,NBC,FOX and MSNBC as well
08-05-2003 11:08 PM ET (US)
Dear ladies and gentlemen:
I recently emailed CNN tonight and told them about the 2004 Election Debate we have here. I don’t know if they will say anything about it, but you never know what the press will think is a story. Anyway this is what I wrote:
Dear CNN
Greetings from Ann Stewart
I just recently made a 2004 Election debate site.. My Election 2004 debate site has gotten really heavily hit, with supporters of Candidates Dean, Kerry, Lieberman and President Bush. I was wondering if CNN could do a report on the online Internet debate fighting between the supporters. I have never made a site that has gotten this much attention this fast. I just built this site 5 days ago, and it already has about almost 1000 hits on it. People are passionate about politics. They want to say how they feel about the Candidates. I think this debate is interesting, because it tells the point of view of the public, the voters and people who care about America.
It has also been very educational for me to hear other people’s facts, beliefs, opinions and why they support the candidate they support.
I thought maybe CNN might be interested too.
The link to the online debate is:
http://election2004.4t.com
You have to click on the debate from there.
Thank you so much
Ann Stewart
A Friendly CNN Fan
I will write ABC,NBC,FOX and MSNBC as well
Charles in Montana 334
08-05-2003 11:08 PM ET (US)
Becky B, No offense, But could you please give us some factual reasons as to why Bush is a good President. I can give you 100 reasons why he is not.
08-05-2003 11:08 PM ET (US)
Becky B, No offense, But could you please give us some factual reasons as to why Bush is a good President. I can give you 100 reasons why he is not.
sindhu kumar 335
08-05-2003 11:23 PM ET (US)
hey guys; i am back sitting and reading all what you said about dean, the other democratic candidates and bush.
08-05-2003 11:23 PM ET (US)
hey guys; i am back sitting and reading all what you said about dean, the other democratic candidates and bush.
Ann Stewart 336
08-05-2003 11:26 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-05-2003 11:28 PM
Good evening Charles
How are you tonight? It's good to have you back
Charles go ahead and tells us your 100 reasons. I'll post them on the Bush comment page.
Hey Sindhu
I don't know if you saw it or not, but Alison Brown was wanting a report on that Larry King Live Show you saw on CNN with Dean on it last night.
08-05-2003 11:26 PM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-05-2003 11:28 PM
Good evening Charles
How are you tonight? It's good to have you back
Charles go ahead and tells us your 100 reasons. I'll post them on the Bush comment page.
Hey Sindhu
I don't know if you saw it or not, but Alison Brown was wanting a report on that Larry King Live Show you saw on CNN with Dean on it last night.
sindhu kumar 337
08-05-2003 11:32 PM ET (US)
hey alison: i saw dean on cnn's larry king live yesterday. he stated that he would like to have somebody who is a washington insider for vice president. he spoke that sometimes the way he says things gets him in trouble. most of the labor endorsements have gone to dick gephardt. he said that he was honored to be have come in behind gephardt in getting most of the labor and union endorsements. he was very excited when a caller from new york told him that she was going to her first dean meetup meeting.
08-05-2003 11:32 PM ET (US)
hey alison: i saw dean on cnn's larry king live yesterday. he stated that he would like to have somebody who is a washington insider for vice president. he spoke that sometimes the way he says things gets him in trouble. most of the labor endorsements have gone to dick gephardt. he said that he was honored to be have come in behind gephardt in getting most of the labor and union endorsements. he was very excited when a caller from new york told him that she was going to her first dean meetup meeting.
Charles in Montana 338
08-06-2003 12:05 AM ET (US)
Ann,Good evening to you kind lady. Do you ever sleep? Ah! Maybe you are what the media pundits call a Left Coaster. It's still early on the Left Coast. Or maybe you are really dedicated to this political intrigue. What ever it is you're doing a wonderful job. No problem with the 100 reasons. It will take me quite some time to type them. I would like a response to why Bush is a good president. You already know from past posts where I stand.( and I'm not budging)
08-06-2003 12:05 AM ET (US)
Ann,Good evening to you kind lady. Do you ever sleep? Ah! Maybe you are what the media pundits call a Left Coaster. It's still early on the Left Coast. Or maybe you are really dedicated to this political intrigue. What ever it is you're doing a wonderful job. No problem with the 100 reasons. It will take me quite some time to type them. I would like a response to why Bush is a good president. You already know from past posts where I stand.( and I'm not budging)
Ann Stewart 339
08-06-2003 12:18 AM ET (US)
Yes Charles I do consider myself dedicated to this, and thank you for the kind words. To answer why Bush is so great you may have to wait till Becky B. gets back on line and who knows when that will be? I will let you know that Becky B. and Jennifer are sisters and I think their whole family supports Bush. I'm not sure, but I know the 2 of them do.
08-06-2003 12:18 AM ET (US)
Yes Charles I do consider myself dedicated to this, and thank you for the kind words. To answer why Bush is so great you may have to wait till Becky B. gets back on line and who knows when that will be? I will let you know that Becky B. and Jennifer are sisters and I think their whole family supports Bush. I'm not sure, but I know the 2 of them do.
Keith Brekhus 340
08-06-2003 12:42 AM ET (US)
I got a chance to hear all nine Democratic candidates tonight on radio at the AFL-CIO debates. This should be Gephardt's forum but I thought Dean outshined him, especially with a great closing statement.
Al Sharpton was terrific too...too bad he has so much baggage in his past... he has humor, charisma and fire!
Patti will be happy to know that Kerry sounded well...presidential.
Lieberman was dreadful, and Kucinich didn't come across well.
Moseley-Braun and Graham did respectable. Edwards talked too much about his humble beginnings and not enough about what he would do as president.
Here is Dean's closing remarks...
"The real question here tonight is which one of us can beat George Bush. Here's is how I plan to do it.
I opposed the war in Iraq, not because I am a pacifist, but because I didn't think the evidence was there.
I opposed No Child Left Behind because it was an unfunded mandate that doesn't help kids and it leaves more of them behind. I opposed the tax cuts because I want a balanced budget and investment in America so we can have jobs in this country again.
You can't beat President Bush by trying to be like him, we tried that in 2002 and it didn't work. The way to beat this President is to stand up and be proud to be Democrats.
Look to what Harry Truman put in the 1948 Democratic Party platform: Health insurance for everybody. We need to stand up for ourselves again and take on the President directly.
In the last quarter most of you know I raised a lot of money. That was great. But it was the way I raised it that matters. 93,000 Americans, more than half who never gave to a political candidate before, and most of the gifts were under 100 dollars. That's how you can beat a President that can get $2000 checks as often as he wants. We're going to give the 50% of Americans who don't vote anymore a reason to vote in the Democratic Party.
We're going to stand up and be proud to be Democrats. We've got the numbers, and this time, the person who gets the most votes is going to win the White House."
08-06-2003 12:42 AM ET (US)
I got a chance to hear all nine Democratic candidates tonight on radio at the AFL-CIO debates. This should be Gephardt's forum but I thought Dean outshined him, especially with a great closing statement.
Al Sharpton was terrific too...too bad he has so much baggage in his past... he has humor, charisma and fire!
Patti will be happy to know that Kerry sounded well...presidential.
Lieberman was dreadful, and Kucinich didn't come across well.
Moseley-Braun and Graham did respectable. Edwards talked too much about his humble beginnings and not enough about what he would do as president.
Here is Dean's closing remarks...
"The real question here tonight is which one of us can beat George Bush. Here's is how I plan to do it.
I opposed the war in Iraq, not because I am a pacifist, but because I didn't think the evidence was there.
I opposed No Child Left Behind because it was an unfunded mandate that doesn't help kids and it leaves more of them behind. I opposed the tax cuts because I want a balanced budget and investment in America so we can have jobs in this country again.
You can't beat President Bush by trying to be like him, we tried that in 2002 and it didn't work. The way to beat this President is to stand up and be proud to be Democrats.
Look to what Harry Truman put in the 1948 Democratic Party platform: Health insurance for everybody. We need to stand up for ourselves again and take on the President directly.
In the last quarter most of you know I raised a lot of money. That was great. But it was the way I raised it that matters. 93,000 Americans, more than half who never gave to a political candidate before, and most of the gifts were under 100 dollars. That's how you can beat a President that can get $2000 checks as often as he wants. We're going to give the 50% of Americans who don't vote anymore a reason to vote in the Democratic Party.
We're going to stand up and be proud to be Democrats. We've got the numbers, and this time, the person who gets the most votes is going to win the White House."
Keith Brekhus 341
08-06-2003 12:52 AM ET (US)
Hey Ann,
I don't know that CNN will pick up the story (but major props for trying), but I would be willing to bet you could get your local news affiliate to pick it up and you could get some airtime for it there albeit on a much smaller scale.
08-06-2003 12:52 AM ET (US)
Hey Ann,
I don't know that CNN will pick up the story (but major props for trying), but I would be willing to bet you could get your local news affiliate to pick it up and you could get some airtime for it there albeit on a much smaller scale.
Ann Stewart 342
08-06-2003 01:09 AM ET (US)
Yeh Thanks Keith
I have thought of that already.
I do visit the local Fox news network here in Nashville.
I will talk to them about you guys. I try to encourage people to talk about things not just politic, because it is educational hearing other people’s views. Well I tell you what guys I think I have updated all the comment pages for the last 2 days. I think I will go night night sleepy a little early tonight. I need the beautiful sleep. I hope you all have wonderful dreams of your new president, and may you sleep in total happiness.
08-06-2003 01:09 AM ET (US)
Yeh Thanks Keith
I have thought of that already.
I do visit the local Fox news network here in Nashville.
I will talk to them about you guys. I try to encourage people to talk about things not just politic, because it is educational hearing other people’s views. Well I tell you what guys I think I have updated all the comment pages for the last 2 days. I think I will go night night sleepy a little early tonight. I need the beautiful sleep. I hope you all have wonderful dreams of your new president, and may you sleep in total happiness.
Patti Ferschke 343
08-06-2003 02:43 AM ET (US)
What a great idea Ann,wow is all I can say. This is how we will change the media..you go girl.I want to know if you hear from them, I'll for sure go to bat for you! To think "w" had the nerve to say when "we the people" protested the war,"it's just small focus groups,folks"..we will show all those politicians it "IS" all about "grass roots".Keith is right when he said:"the times are a changing"! I have said that since the 60's and ,perhaps it will come true..better late than never ! But it just shows what perserverence can do. It's like I have told our children,"sometimes you must wait it out,sacrifice your ideals,make some compromises..then you get what you want..but always hold on to your ideals and your dreams,and always ask: what if, or why not "!
08-06-2003 02:43 AM ET (US)
What a great idea Ann,wow is all I can say. This is how we will change the media..you go girl.I want to know if you hear from them, I'll for sure go to bat for you! To think "w" had the nerve to say when "we the people" protested the war,"it's just small focus groups,folks"..we will show all those politicians it "IS" all about "grass roots".Keith is right when he said:"the times are a changing"! I have said that since the 60's and ,perhaps it will come true..better late than never ! But it just shows what perserverence can do. It's like I have told our children,"sometimes you must wait it out,sacrifice your ideals,make some compromises..then you get what you want..but always hold on to your ideals and your dreams,and always ask: what if, or why not "!
Patti Ferschke 344
08-06-2003 03:05 AM ET (US)
I had to work tonite so I didn't get to hear the debate in Chicago.from your comments re:DEAN they sound so robotic,but I must say the guy's got guts,but weak on foreign policy...and that's where we need to go!NITE ALL,off to spend some time on the "KERRY blog". Whew, this is going to wear me out before it even begins !
08-06-2003 03:05 AM ET (US)
I had to work tonite so I didn't get to hear the debate in Chicago.from your comments re:DEAN they sound so robotic,but I must say the guy's got guts,but weak on foreign policy...and that's where we need to go!NITE ALL,off to spend some time on the "KERRY blog". Whew, this is going to wear me out before it even begins !
Patti Ferschke 345
08-06-2003 03:07 AM ET (US)
I would suggest we forget FOX,as they will just blast us and call us "focus groups"..We don't want to go there,and listen to Bill O'Rielly call us idiots ! No thanks,we can do better !
08-06-2003 03:07 AM ET (US)
I would suggest we forget FOX,as they will just blast us and call us "focus groups"..We don't want to go there,and listen to Bill O'Rielly call us idiots ! No thanks,we can do better !
doug from indiana 346
08-06-2003 04:03 AM ET (US)
http://www.prisonplanet.com/video.html
watch 9-11 the road to tranny.
08-06-2003 04:03 AM ET (US)
http://www.prisonplanet.com/video.html
watch 9-11 the road to tranny.
Patti Ferschke 347
08-06-2003 05:34 AM ET (US)
Keith,Ann's got a point.If the media is already picking up on how this internet is changing how we campaign, {the DEAN camp has done a terrific job doing that} why not these "blog sites"? They are a great way for "we the people" to do something constructive,rather than chose to do nothing. It's certainly a voice "for the people",especially those people that feel frustrated about our officials,and those that we put in office to work "for the people". It's no different from the "LIMBAUGH" phenomenom
that the "right" have a voice. Now all people have a voice, an opportunity to learn from one another,and one thing for sure the people that do go there are passionate about this country. That's patriotism in it's best form,not the flag rallying we have seen this past year ! One thing for sure, it beats screaming at the Jerry Faldwells and the Ann Coulters from your couch!
08-06-2003 05:34 AM ET (US)
Keith,Ann's got a point.If the media is already picking up on how this internet is changing how we campaign, {the DEAN camp has done a terrific job doing that} why not these "blog sites"? They are a great way for "we the people" to do something constructive,rather than chose to do nothing. It's certainly a voice "for the people",especially those people that feel frustrated about our officials,and those that we put in office to work "for the people". It's no different from the "LIMBAUGH" phenomenom
that the "right" have a voice. Now all people have a voice, an opportunity to learn from one another,and one thing for sure the people that do go there are passionate about this country. That's patriotism in it's best form,not the flag rallying we have seen this past year ! One thing for sure, it beats screaming at the Jerry Faldwells and the Ann Coulters from your couch!
Patti Ferschke 348
08-06-2003 05:40 AM ET (US)
I must add,that in spite of the many opinions expressed here,we a have [for the most part},been honest,respectful and open with one another. Let the dialogue begin,that's what we need to do to become a better AMERICA ,that's where we need to go. It's not about "party affiliations",right vs. left thinking..it's just plain good thinking. It's also about
supporting those that have NO voice !
08-06-2003 05:40 AM ET (US)
I must add,that in spite of the many opinions expressed here,we a have [for the most part},been honest,respectful and open with one another. Let the dialogue begin,that's what we need to do to become a better AMERICA ,that's where we need to go. It's not about "party affiliations",right vs. left thinking..it's just plain good thinking. It's also about
supporting those that have NO voice !
Keith Brekhus 349
08-06-2003 09:22 AM ET (US)
I wouldn't rule out the local Fox affiliate. Sure Fox network has a conservative slant in general being run by Rupert Murdocah and all, and some of the talk shows on it like O'Reilly are hard to watch.
However, the local Fox station's regular local news casts are pretty much on par with everybody elses where I live, and on Fox one might reach an audience that otherwise doesn't see much in the way of alternative views.
Anyway, I am of the mind that usually even bad publicity is better than no publiciity, and Dean and Kerry supporters making the radar on Fox would be seen as a sign of our strength.
08-06-2003 09:22 AM ET (US)
I wouldn't rule out the local Fox affiliate. Sure Fox network has a conservative slant in general being run by Rupert Murdocah and all, and some of the talk shows on it like O'Reilly are hard to watch.
However, the local Fox station's regular local news casts are pretty much on par with everybody elses where I live, and on Fox one might reach an audience that otherwise doesn't see much in the way of alternative views.
Anyway, I am of the mind that usually even bad publicity is better than no publiciity, and Dean and Kerry supporters making the radar on Fox would be seen as a sign of our strength.
Lee P. 350
08-06-2003 12:25 PM ET (US)
Well I'm not sure who I will vote for, but I know who I won't vote for and that's the republician side.
How do think Kerry, Dean or the others will act on this idea of gay schools? You see New York is trying to get a gay school started, because gay kids are being abused and picked on. Well to me that is segration. I am against anything that segregates people. Next they will want a school for kids who are over weight or fat kids. I'm sure they get more picked on than gay kids do. Sometimes I think people in the goverment really just don't know what they are doing. If we segregate gays, who are we going to segregate next? To me that's as bad as the time we segrateted blacks and whites.
08-06-2003 12:25 PM ET (US)
Well I'm not sure who I will vote for, but I know who I won't vote for and that's the republician side.
How do think Kerry, Dean or the others will act on this idea of gay schools? You see New York is trying to get a gay school started, because gay kids are being abused and picked on. Well to me that is segration. I am against anything that segregates people. Next they will want a school for kids who are over weight or fat kids. I'm sure they get more picked on than gay kids do. Sometimes I think people in the goverment really just don't know what they are doing. If we segregate gays, who are we going to segregate next? To me that's as bad as the time we segrateted blacks and whites.
Brad 351
08-06-2003 12:33 PM ET (US)
Dean's gonna win. I will vote for Dean. He's got alot of people on his side. I read over this debate a little. Looks like Dean's the man to go with.
08-06-2003 12:33 PM ET (US)
Dean's gonna win. I will vote for Dean. He's got alot of people on his side. I read over this debate a little. Looks like Dean's the man to go with.
Jimmy 352
08-06-2003 12:37 PM ET (US)
Dean seems to have the most support right now. Every time I hear about him, it's always something good. It's something better than the last time before.
08-06-2003 12:37 PM ET (US)
Dean seems to have the most support right now. Every time I hear about him, it's always something good. It's something better than the last time before.
doug from indiana 353
08-06-2003 12:46 PM ET (US)
The Doctor Is In
In between whistle stops in Iowa, PW peppered Dr. Dean with questions about issues and campaign strategy. Here's what he had to say.
What do you stand for and what are you fighting against?
"I want jobs again, which means you need a president who manages the economy. I want to get the universal health insurance into America that other industrialized countries have. But mostly I want a restoration of our sense of community, that we're all in this together. And what I'm fighting against: this president--what I would call the borrow-and-spend credit card presidency of a radical, a person who squandered our respect around the world, wasted our economic assets and has an agenda that is consistent not with American values, but some narrow-minded conservative agenda that doesn't fit America."
You've taken a strong stance against the war in Iraq. What was the final straw?
"There was never any evidence. The president kept making assertions and couldn't back them up. Why did so many Democrats go along with him when the information he was giving the American people was incorrect, and why couldn't they figure it out? I'm not a pacifist. I don't think you can run for president and not be willing to use the entire might of the American military in our defense. But the case for war wasn't there."
You backed military action in the first Gulf War.
"I supported the first Gulf War and the war in Afghanistan because I felt the national defense was at stake. But for this war the president kept making assertions and there was no evidence, and the evidence he gave wasn't real. The supposed deal with Niger on uranium, and the connection between Al Qaeda and Iraq weren't so. We basically went to war without any evidence. I don't think it's appropriate for our president to be sending our troops into harm's way without explaining why."
If in a few years Iraq miraculously becomes a prosperous democracy, would you still hold the same positions?
"It's always easy to look back and say we should have done this or that, but at the time the facts were so that war was not justified. Do you look back and say that our actions were justified based on the end results, or do you try and have an open process? There was no straightforward open process in the decision-making that took us to war."
If you win the election and we're still heavily involved in Iraq, would your solution be to immediately pull out?
"No. That would expose us to enormous danger. If Al Qaeda were to move into Iraq if we moved out, which would be likely, we would really have a very serious problem. We need to internationalize the conflict in Iraq--bring in international troops, Muslim troops under the auspices of the United Nations, so we can reduce our troop strength but not pull out."
You lost your brother, Charlie, in Laos in 1973, near the end of the Vietnam War. He worked for the McGovern campaign, and after Nixon won, he traveled the world and wound up in Laos. Eventually he went missing, never to be heard from again. Oddly, the army listed him as POW-MIA even though he wasn't enlisted.
"Nobody's ever understood why he was classified as POW-MIA. My father thought he was in the CIA. My mother did intermittently as well. I don't think that's true, but nobody knows. All I know is he was classified as a POW-MIA by the armed services."
How do your respond when you hear that Karl Rove is licking his chops at the prospect of running against you.
"I think that's terrific. Given Karl Rove's Machiavellian history, that's an endorsement for me. It means they are very concerned."
People seem excited about your candidacy because, to put it bluntly, there's a Democrat in the race that has a pair. [Dean laughs.] But it may be that "New McGovern" tag people try to put around your neck comes from a fear of pinning all their hopes on you only to see you put through the shredder. How do you see yourself faring in the South? You saw what they did to McCain.
"They will do the same to me. The question is, do the people in the South want to buy that, or do they want jobs and health insurance? That's their choice."
Are you anticipating massive resistance from the healthcare industry and the insurance companies?
"No. All we're doing is expanding the current system. I learned in 1993 that reforming the system is not likely to pass because the interest groups will kill it, and then 42 million people are left without insurance. What I'm interested in is getting something passed to expand the existing system to cover everybody."
The other night when you called into a rally in Philadelphia, you talked about sending Ashcroft back to Missouri along with his Patriot Act. Can you clarify?
"There are a number of things in the Patriot Act that are unconstitutional. One is the idea of being able to search through library records without a proper warrant. Two is the idea of being able to search through video store records without a warrant. Three is incarceration of American citizens without access to a lawyer. Those are all clearly unconstitutional. Unfortunately, the president is appointing members of the far-right federalist society who have a very different view of the Constitution than the rest of us. It's way out of the mainstream. I'll have an attorney general that actually believes in upholding the Constitution. I'll ask the Congress to revise the Patriot Act and take out the things that are clearly an invasion of individual privacy. And I'll appoint judges who are moderate mainstream judicial figures, not judicial activists on the far right."
Surely you're aware that as the election heats up the Bush administration is going to ratchet up the 9/11 fear factor. How will you handle that?
"I think the president has done a miserable job on national security and national defense. He's chosen tax cuts over buying the uranium-rich stocks of the former Soviet Union before they wind up in the hands of the terrorists. He's chosen tax cuts over inspecting containers coming into this country. He's chosen tax cuts over giving states money that he promised them for dealing with homeland security. As for strong national defense, he's a president who talks big but hasn't delivered too much."
How willing are you to play hardball? Will you question the legitimacy of the last presidential election?
"I will certainly address the issue of the Supreme Court's role, which was clearly politically motivated. The rule in close elections is to always count the votes because that's the only thing that gives people confidence in it. The Supreme Court had the opportunity to make sure the election was legitimate by recounting the Florida votes, but they chose not to. I think that is the worst decision that the court has made since the Dred Scott decision. This year the candidate with the most votes will be the winner."
What is your agenda for big cities like Philadelphia?
"I want to double the community development block grant program. That is very important for the cities. And I want to invest in infrastructure, especially in the schools. The way to create jobs is not to give tax cuts to people who won't spend the money. It's to put people back to work in construction, road building, infrastructure for renewable energy. For the cities, the principal investment would be the schools and to give cities more access to discretionary money to create jobs."
The Republicans are going to try to paint you as a "Birkenstock liberal." To clarify: Do you now, or have you ever owned a pair of Birkenstocks?
[laughs] "No."
Opponents will surely make the civil unions legislation an issue. What motivated you then, and how do you feel about that now?
"I believe everyone should have equal rights under the law. Every single American. And that's what we've done. The civil union legislation gives gay and lesbian individuals the same visitation rights, insurance rights and inheritance rights that everyone else has. Seems to me that's fair."
We spoke with people in the Vermont press corps who give you mixed reviews as an environmentalist. Push comes to shove, they say you would side with business as often as you would with environmentalists.
"I wouldn't say I've sided with anyone's interests. I've put aside thousands of acres of land that will never be developed. Look, there will always be that 20 percent on either side that won't compromise no matter what. So I always try to work with the 80 percent on both sides for a healthy environment and to create more jobs."
How would you characterize the Bush administration's record on the environment?
"All they've done is wreck the environment. I can't think of one thing [they've done] that is pro-environment. And they cloak their true intentions in Orwellian doubletalk. The Clear Skies Initiative actually pollutes more, and the Healthy Forest Initiative actually cuts trees down."
Why do you make the Democratic National Committee so nervous?
"Principally, they are a club in Washington, and they prefer one of their own, but the problem with that is that one of their own isn't going to beat George Bush. You don't beat George Bush by trying to be Bush Lite."
Gun control affects a small rural state a lot differently than it does Philadelphia. There are very relaxed gun regulations in Vermont, but at the same time there are very few incidents of gun violence. That's not true in Philadelphia.
"That's exactly right. So how do you come up with a gun policy that makes sense for the whole country? Mine is the assault weapons ban. I've never met a hunter who thought he needed an AK-47 to shoot a deer. I never met a hunter who thought that guns ought to be distributed to criminals. So it seems to me that background checks make sense. Both for gun shows and for retail stores. And after that, why not let every state make as much gun control or as little as they want once they enforce the federal law? But don't say that Pennsylvania law has to apply to Vermont and Wyoming and Montana. We're doing a terrible job of enforcing the federal laws. You enforce the federal laws, and maybe you wouldn't have as much trouble."
What about this country's drug policy?
"Addiction is a troubling health problem, not a judicial problem. But I don't favor legalizing marijuana or decriminalizing it. I think that if you're a drug addict or a veteran pot smoker, you need rehab, not jail. But if you're drug dealing in the schools, you go to jail, or if you're shooting convenience store clerks, you go to jail. Bottom line is, the reason I don't support legalization or decriminalization is because we already have enough trouble with the two drugs that are legal--tobacco and alcohol. And to send a message to kids that this is okay is not healthy."
You went to Yale in the late '60s and early '70s. Did you inhale?
"I did."
Have you been asked this before?
"Oh yeah. I decided before the campaign started that I wasn't going to answer those kinds of questions about my irresponsible youth. But I admitted to a high school audience in 1995 that I smoked pot when I was a kid. I'm not proud of it, and I think it was a mistake, but there's no sense in trying to pretend later on that I didn't."
What do you make of the theory that the real motivation behind the Bush tax cuts and the deficits they're racking up is to bankrupt the government so it can't afford human services and social welfare programs?
"I think that's true. I think the purpose of these tax cuts is to de-fund the federal government."
You've backed up your opposition to the Iraq war by talking about the way the Bush administration has been undercutting veterans while talking about supporting the troops.
"The president is a complete hypocrite when it comes to the veterans. He goes to a veterans' hospital and announces that they are going to have the best healthcare in the world. But in fact the day before he cut the healthcare benefits of 164,000 veterans."
How can all of this go on and the president still have high approval ratings?
"Because you guys aren't writing about it. And you guys aren't writing about it because we're not talking about it. Now that we're talking about it, you guys have a reason to write about it. I mean, you know it's fine for everyone to blame the media because they don't say anything, but the truth is the Democrats haven't dared to say anything because they think the way to get elected is to be a little bit like the president. I think that's nonsense."
08-06-2003 12:46 PM ET (US)
The Doctor Is In
In between whistle stops in Iowa, PW peppered Dr. Dean with questions about issues and campaign strategy. Here's what he had to say.
What do you stand for and what are you fighting against?
"I want jobs again, which means you need a president who manages the economy. I want to get the universal health insurance into America that other industrialized countries have. But mostly I want a restoration of our sense of community, that we're all in this together. And what I'm fighting against: this president--what I would call the borrow-and-spend credit card presidency of a radical, a person who squandered our respect around the world, wasted our economic assets and has an agenda that is consistent not with American values, but some narrow-minded conservative agenda that doesn't fit America."
You've taken a strong stance against the war in Iraq. What was the final straw?
"There was never any evidence. The president kept making assertions and couldn't back them up. Why did so many Democrats go along with him when the information he was giving the American people was incorrect, and why couldn't they figure it out? I'm not a pacifist. I don't think you can run for president and not be willing to use the entire might of the American military in our defense. But the case for war wasn't there."
You backed military action in the first Gulf War.
"I supported the first Gulf War and the war in Afghanistan because I felt the national defense was at stake. But for this war the president kept making assertions and there was no evidence, and the evidence he gave wasn't real. The supposed deal with Niger on uranium, and the connection between Al Qaeda and Iraq weren't so. We basically went to war without any evidence. I don't think it's appropriate for our president to be sending our troops into harm's way without explaining why."
If in a few years Iraq miraculously becomes a prosperous democracy, would you still hold the same positions?
"It's always easy to look back and say we should have done this or that, but at the time the facts were so that war was not justified. Do you look back and say that our actions were justified based on the end results, or do you try and have an open process? There was no straightforward open process in the decision-making that took us to war."
If you win the election and we're still heavily involved in Iraq, would your solution be to immediately pull out?
"No. That would expose us to enormous danger. If Al Qaeda were to move into Iraq if we moved out, which would be likely, we would really have a very serious problem. We need to internationalize the conflict in Iraq--bring in international troops, Muslim troops under the auspices of the United Nations, so we can reduce our troop strength but not pull out."
You lost your brother, Charlie, in Laos in 1973, near the end of the Vietnam War. He worked for the McGovern campaign, and after Nixon won, he traveled the world and wound up in Laos. Eventually he went missing, never to be heard from again. Oddly, the army listed him as POW-MIA even though he wasn't enlisted.
"Nobody's ever understood why he was classified as POW-MIA. My father thought he was in the CIA. My mother did intermittently as well. I don't think that's true, but nobody knows. All I know is he was classified as a POW-MIA by the armed services."
How do your respond when you hear that Karl Rove is licking his chops at the prospect of running against you.
"I think that's terrific. Given Karl Rove's Machiavellian history, that's an endorsement for me. It means they are very concerned."
People seem excited about your candidacy because, to put it bluntly, there's a Democrat in the race that has a pair. [Dean laughs.] But it may be that "New McGovern" tag people try to put around your neck comes from a fear of pinning all their hopes on you only to see you put through the shredder. How do you see yourself faring in the South? You saw what they did to McCain.
"They will do the same to me. The question is, do the people in the South want to buy that, or do they want jobs and health insurance? That's their choice."
Are you anticipating massive resistance from the healthcare industry and the insurance companies?
"No. All we're doing is expanding the current system. I learned in 1993 that reforming the system is not likely to pass because the interest groups will kill it, and then 42 million people are left without insurance. What I'm interested in is getting something passed to expand the existing system to cover everybody."
The other night when you called into a rally in Philadelphia, you talked about sending Ashcroft back to Missouri along with his Patriot Act. Can you clarify?
"There are a number of things in the Patriot Act that are unconstitutional. One is the idea of being able to search through library records without a proper warrant. Two is the idea of being able to search through video store records without a warrant. Three is incarceration of American citizens without access to a lawyer. Those are all clearly unconstitutional. Unfortunately, the president is appointing members of the far-right federalist society who have a very different view of the Constitution than the rest of us. It's way out of the mainstream. I'll have an attorney general that actually believes in upholding the Constitution. I'll ask the Congress to revise the Patriot Act and take out the things that are clearly an invasion of individual privacy. And I'll appoint judges who are moderate mainstream judicial figures, not judicial activists on the far right."
Surely you're aware that as the election heats up the Bush administration is going to ratchet up the 9/11 fear factor. How will you handle that?
"I think the president has done a miserable job on national security and national defense. He's chosen tax cuts over buying the uranium-rich stocks of the former Soviet Union before they wind up in the hands of the terrorists. He's chosen tax cuts over inspecting containers coming into this country. He's chosen tax cuts over giving states money that he promised them for dealing with homeland security. As for strong national defense, he's a president who talks big but hasn't delivered too much."
How willing are you to play hardball? Will you question the legitimacy of the last presidential election?
"I will certainly address the issue of the Supreme Court's role, which was clearly politically motivated. The rule in close elections is to always count the votes because that's the only thing that gives people confidence in it. The Supreme Court had the opportunity to make sure the election was legitimate by recounting the Florida votes, but they chose not to. I think that is the worst decision that the court has made since the Dred Scott decision. This year the candidate with the most votes will be the winner."
What is your agenda for big cities like Philadelphia?
"I want to double the community development block grant program. That is very important for the cities. And I want to invest in infrastructure, especially in the schools. The way to create jobs is not to give tax cuts to people who won't spend the money. It's to put people back to work in construction, road building, infrastructure for renewable energy. For the cities, the principal investment would be the schools and to give cities more access to discretionary money to create jobs."
The Republicans are going to try to paint you as a "Birkenstock liberal." To clarify: Do you now, or have you ever owned a pair of Birkenstocks?
[laughs] "No."
Opponents will surely make the civil unions legislation an issue. What motivated you then, and how do you feel about that now?
"I believe everyone should have equal rights under the law. Every single American. And that's what we've done. The civil union legislation gives gay and lesbian individuals the same visitation rights, insurance rights and inheritance rights that everyone else has. Seems to me that's fair."
We spoke with people in the Vermont press corps who give you mixed reviews as an environmentalist. Push comes to shove, they say you would side with business as often as you would with environmentalists.
"I wouldn't say I've sided with anyone's interests. I've put aside thousands of acres of land that will never be developed. Look, there will always be that 20 percent on either side that won't compromise no matter what. So I always try to work with the 80 percent on both sides for a healthy environment and to create more jobs."
How would you characterize the Bush administration's record on the environment?
"All they've done is wreck the environment. I can't think of one thing [they've done] that is pro-environment. And they cloak their true intentions in Orwellian doubletalk. The Clear Skies Initiative actually pollutes more, and the Healthy Forest Initiative actually cuts trees down."
Why do you make the Democratic National Committee so nervous?
"Principally, they are a club in Washington, and they prefer one of their own, but the problem with that is that one of their own isn't going to beat George Bush. You don't beat George Bush by trying to be Bush Lite."
Gun control affects a small rural state a lot differently than it does Philadelphia. There are very relaxed gun regulations in Vermont, but at the same time there are very few incidents of gun violence. That's not true in Philadelphia.
"That's exactly right. So how do you come up with a gun policy that makes sense for the whole country? Mine is the assault weapons ban. I've never met a hunter who thought he needed an AK-47 to shoot a deer. I never met a hunter who thought that guns ought to be distributed to criminals. So it seems to me that background checks make sense. Both for gun shows and for retail stores. And after that, why not let every state make as much gun control or as little as they want once they enforce the federal law? But don't say that Pennsylvania law has to apply to Vermont and Wyoming and Montana. We're doing a terrible job of enforcing the federal laws. You enforce the federal laws, and maybe you wouldn't have as much trouble."
What about this country's drug policy?
"Addiction is a troubling health problem, not a judicial problem. But I don't favor legalizing marijuana or decriminalizing it. I think that if you're a drug addict or a veteran pot smoker, you need rehab, not jail. But if you're drug dealing in the schools, you go to jail, or if you're shooting convenience store clerks, you go to jail. Bottom line is, the reason I don't support legalization or decriminalization is because we already have enough trouble with the two drugs that are legal--tobacco and alcohol. And to send a message to kids that this is okay is not healthy."
You went to Yale in the late '60s and early '70s. Did you inhale?
"I did."
Have you been asked this before?
"Oh yeah. I decided before the campaign started that I wasn't going to answer those kinds of questions about my irresponsible youth. But I admitted to a high school audience in 1995 that I smoked pot when I was a kid. I'm not proud of it, and I think it was a mistake, but there's no sense in trying to pretend later on that I didn't."
What do you make of the theory that the real motivation behind the Bush tax cuts and the deficits they're racking up is to bankrupt the government so it can't afford human services and social welfare programs?
"I think that's true. I think the purpose of these tax cuts is to de-fund the federal government."
You've backed up your opposition to the Iraq war by talking about the way the Bush administration has been undercutting veterans while talking about supporting the troops.
"The president is a complete hypocrite when it comes to the veterans. He goes to a veterans' hospital and announces that they are going to have the best healthcare in the world. But in fact the day before he cut the healthcare benefits of 164,000 veterans."
How can all of this go on and the president still have high approval ratings?
"Because you guys aren't writing about it. And you guys aren't writing about it because we're not talking about it. Now that we're talking about it, you guys have a reason to write about it. I mean, you know it's fine for everyone to blame the media because they don't say anything, but the truth is the Democrats haven't dared to say anything because they think the way to get elected is to be a little bit like the president. I think that's nonsense."
Alison Brown 354
08-06-2003 01:35 PM ET (US)
What a great interview! Where did you read it/see it? Who is PW?
08-06-2003 01:35 PM ET (US)
What a great interview! Where did you read it/see it? Who is PW?
doug from indiana 355
08-06-2003 02:16 PM ET (US)
pw is the philly weekly.
goto deanforamerica.com and check out his blog, it has a link to that story.
08-06-2003 02:16 PM ET (US)
pw is the philly weekly.
goto deanforamerica.com and check out his blog, it has a link to that story.
Ann Stewart 357
08-06-2003 02:41 PM ET (US)
Patti Sent this to me in an email. I thought I would post it here so all could see it.
From Patti: Kerry will be on c-spn tomorrow 8/603 at 3pm pacific and 6pm eastern time,do watch
If any of you fell the need to email me about something on this site or some you especial want on this site my email address is 4stew@prodigy.net
08-06-2003 02:41 PM ET (US)
Patti Sent this to me in an email. I thought I would post it here so all could see it.
From Patti: Kerry will be on c-spn tomorrow 8/603 at 3pm pacific and 6pm eastern time,do watch
If any of you fell the need to email me about something on this site or some you especial want on this site my email address is 4stew@prodigy.net
Ann Stewart 358
08-06-2003 02:48 PM ET (US)
Hello Ladies and Gentlemen:
My experiences today again I asked 2 people who they would vote for one said he would not vote for Bush the other said he would vote for Dean.
Has anybody else asked somebody who the they would vote for, and if so what was their answer? Did they also tell you why?
If you didn’t that’s Ok, I just thought I would ask.
08-06-2003 02:48 PM ET (US)
Hello Ladies and Gentlemen:
My experiences today again I asked 2 people who they would vote for one said he would not vote for Bush the other said he would vote for Dean.
Has anybody else asked somebody who the they would vote for, and if so what was their answer? Did they also tell you why?
If you didn’t that’s Ok, I just thought I would ask.
doug from indiana 359
08-06-2003 03:39 PM ET (US)
US Embassy cancelled the booking of Marriott Hotel 4.5 hours before explosion
August 6 2003
Translated from http://www.detik.com/peristiwa/2003/08/05/20030805-183447.shtml
US Embassy cancelled the booking of Marriott Hotel 4.5 hours before the explosion.
There was something interesting happened just hours before the explosion shocked the JW Marriott Hotel, Mega Kuningan, South Jakarta. The US Embassy cancelled the booking of 10-20 rooms in that hotel. The cancellation was on 8.00 West Indonesian Time, Tuesday, or only 4.5 hours before the explosion.
This information is from employee of Marriot Hotel who refused to be identified. He explained that the booking was made several days ago. The US Embassy's guests were planned to stay for 3 days. And the ceremony was planned on Wednesday.
For information, when there was the explosion, the security of US Embassy directly came to the Marriot Hotel in Mega Kuningan. JW Marriot Hotel is known to be used frequently by US Embassy. On 4 July 2003, the Independent Day of US was celebrated on this hotel. Last year, it was also celebrated there.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sound strange? Read this next article for details on how the hotel was evacuated before the blast:
TERROR BLAST AT HOTEL
Sky News
August 05, 2003
At least 14 people have died and more than 150 have been injured in a car bomb attack at a luxury tourist hotel in the Indonesian capital Jakarta.
Indonesian police said the attack was "similar" to last year's Bali bombings, which killed more than 200 people.
The blast at the US-owned JW Marriott Hotel was described as a "huge explosion" and ripped through the 33-storey building, shattering windows several floors above the ground floor and scattering rubble and debris.
Police said a Dutch man was among the dead while two Americans, two Singaporeans, an Australian and a New Zealander among those hurt. The official Antara news agency said 111 people were injured, many seriously.
The attack comes as the trial draws to a close of an Islamic militant who is accused of being behind last year's Bali bombings.
Police said the explosion came from the basement and was a car bomb - but it was too early to say whether the van contained a suicide bomber.
Hotel bosses said staff and guests had been evacuated before the blast, which happened during the busy lunch hour.
Several floors of the hotel were damaged and windows blown out. Two badly burned bodies were left on the hotel forecourt, witnesses said.
"One of my windows was shattered by the force and I live on the 30th floor. We took the staircase to descend," said Madina Sar-Diarra, who lives in an apartment on top of the hotel.
"It was a panic and once downstairs, I saw several injured people, especially cooks of the restaurant, covered in blood.
Indonesian President Megawati Sukarnoputri toured the scene just hours after the blast but left without comment.
Earlier, she called for greater vigilance in all government departments to prevent further attacks.
The hotel is popular with foreign tourists, businessmen and politicians because it is located near several embassies in a business complex.
October's Bali bombings killed more than 212 people, mainly foreign holidaymakers.
The trial of militant Amrozi bin Nurhashym, who is accused of masterminding the attack, is expected to end on Thursday after several weeks.
If found guilty he could be sentenced to death.
He is a member of Jemaah Islamiah, an Islamic group seeking to set up a pan-Islamic state in southeast Asia.
The group is accused of having links to al Qaeda and had threatened to carry out more attacks in Indonesia.
Government Sponsored Terror and the Sept 11th Attacks
Infowars.com
What really happened on Sept 11th including the government training of the terrorists and much more...
08-06-2003 03:39 PM ET (US)
US Embassy cancelled the booking of Marriott Hotel 4.5 hours before explosion
August 6 2003
Translated from http://www.detik.com/peristiwa/2003/08/05/20030805-183447.shtml
US Embassy cancelled the booking of Marriott Hotel 4.5 hours before the explosion.
There was something interesting happened just hours before the explosion shocked the JW Marriott Hotel, Mega Kuningan, South Jakarta. The US Embassy cancelled the booking of 10-20 rooms in that hotel. The cancellation was on 8.00 West Indonesian Time, Tuesday, or only 4.5 hours before the explosion.
This information is from employee of Marriot Hotel who refused to be identified. He explained that the booking was made several days ago. The US Embassy's guests were planned to stay for 3 days. And the ceremony was planned on Wednesday.
For information, when there was the explosion, the security of US Embassy directly came to the Marriot Hotel in Mega Kuningan. JW Marriot Hotel is known to be used frequently by US Embassy. On 4 July 2003, the Independent Day of US was celebrated on this hotel. Last year, it was also celebrated there.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sound strange? Read this next article for details on how the hotel was evacuated before the blast:
TERROR BLAST AT HOTEL
Sky News
August 05, 2003
At least 14 people have died and more than 150 have been injured in a car bomb attack at a luxury tourist hotel in the Indonesian capital Jakarta.
Indonesian police said the attack was "similar" to last year's Bali bombings, which killed more than 200 people.
The blast at the US-owned JW Marriott Hotel was described as a "huge explosion" and ripped through the 33-storey building, shattering windows several floors above the ground floor and scattering rubble and debris.
Police said a Dutch man was among the dead while two Americans, two Singaporeans, an Australian and a New Zealander among those hurt. The official Antara news agency said 111 people were injured, many seriously.
The attack comes as the trial draws to a close of an Islamic militant who is accused of being behind last year's Bali bombings.
Police said the explosion came from the basement and was a car bomb - but it was too early to say whether the van contained a suicide bomber.
Hotel bosses said staff and guests had been evacuated before the blast, which happened during the busy lunch hour.
Several floors of the hotel were damaged and windows blown out. Two badly burned bodies were left on the hotel forecourt, witnesses said.
"One of my windows was shattered by the force and I live on the 30th floor. We took the staircase to descend," said Madina Sar-Diarra, who lives in an apartment on top of the hotel.
"It was a panic and once downstairs, I saw several injured people, especially cooks of the restaurant, covered in blood.
Indonesian President Megawati Sukarnoputri toured the scene just hours after the blast but left without comment.
Earlier, she called for greater vigilance in all government departments to prevent further attacks.
The hotel is popular with foreign tourists, businessmen and politicians because it is located near several embassies in a business complex.
October's Bali bombings killed more than 212 people, mainly foreign holidaymakers.
The trial of militant Amrozi bin Nurhashym, who is accused of masterminding the attack, is expected to end on Thursday after several weeks.
If found guilty he could be sentenced to death.
He is a member of Jemaah Islamiah, an Islamic group seeking to set up a pan-Islamic state in southeast Asia.
The group is accused of having links to al Qaeda and had threatened to carry out more attacks in Indonesia.
Government Sponsored Terror and the Sept 11th Attacks
Infowars.com
What really happened on Sept 11th including the government training of the terrorists and much more...
Patti Ferschke 360
08-06-2003 06:12 PM ET (US)
I agree with the person that spoke to the issue of "gay schools". It is an outrage to me that schools put up with this kind of bashing of any student,irregardless of any situation! KIDS go to school to learn..period! Teachers need to inter-vene,parents need to be involved and hold all kids accountable and be notified of their childs negative activities
re;the "bullies" that cause these problems,and those bullies need to be told there is a"ZERO" tolerance for any
violations of anyones human rights! This is exactly what I mean when I say our job in this life is to care for one another,respect one another,and be there for one another.We teach our children way too late in life this message. When we can come together,celebrate and embrace each other's differences is when we have truly matured. We need to teach kids early on how to deal with the "bullies",and to the bullies I say: grow up,we know who you are and we will not tolerate your ignorance! You are so right,the next thing will be schools for fat kids,funny-looking kids,or those kids that march to the tune of a different drummer..hooray for the kids that do !
08-06-2003 06:12 PM ET (US)
I agree with the person that spoke to the issue of "gay schools". It is an outrage to me that schools put up with this kind of bashing of any student,irregardless of any situation! KIDS go to school to learn..period! Teachers need to inter-vene,parents need to be involved and hold all kids accountable and be notified of their childs negative activities
re;the "bullies" that cause these problems,and those bullies need to be told there is a"ZERO" tolerance for any
violations of anyones human rights! This is exactly what I mean when I say our job in this life is to care for one another,respect one another,and be there for one another.We teach our children way too late in life this message. When we can come together,celebrate and embrace each other's differences is when we have truly matured. We need to teach kids early on how to deal with the "bullies",and to the bullies I say: grow up,we know who you are and we will not tolerate your ignorance! You are so right,the next thing will be schools for fat kids,funny-looking kids,or those kids that march to the tune of a different drummer..hooray for the kids that do !
Becky B. 361
08-06-2003 08:04 PM ET (US)
You know folks I would vote democratic if I could find a democrat who has any morals. All the democrats are always saying abortion is what they call pro-choice. I call it pro-murder of the innocent and defenseless. I would love to find a democrat that has any morals on the issue of abortion. But I can’t find one. They are no where to be found. Name one democrat for me who is against abortion. If it happened I would be the first to support him. Also George Bush is against putting a stop to same sex marriages. I am never going to believe that same sex marriages should be legal and our goverment should support them finacually. What does your man that you believe should be president say about that? The democrats are getting so liberal. Now they want all gay schools and liberals usually support gay catholic priest. Is nothing sacred anymore? Is nothing Holy? I believe if we leave God out of our government we have no morals. We need a good Christian man like George Bush. With good Christian morals. A good conservative who believes in old fashioned honesty and traditions.
That’s what I feel the democrats need. It’s been along time since I have seen a democratic candidate with any conservative morals on abortions and gays. Clinton tried to put gays in the military. Senator Clinton tried to give the same amount of financial support to gay couples as married people got in NY when 9/11 happened. WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THE DEMOCRATS? ALL THEIR MORALS JUST WENT DOWN THE TOILET. Years ago I was a democrat. Now I’m ashamed to call myself one anymore. I haven’t seen a democrat with morals in years. WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THE DEMOCRATS? I THINK THEY ALL WENT LIBRELLY NUTS.
08-06-2003 08:04 PM ET (US)
You know folks I would vote democratic if I could find a democrat who has any morals. All the democrats are always saying abortion is what they call pro-choice. I call it pro-murder of the innocent and defenseless. I would love to find a democrat that has any morals on the issue of abortion. But I can’t find one. They are no where to be found. Name one democrat for me who is against abortion. If it happened I would be the first to support him. Also George Bush is against putting a stop to same sex marriages. I am never going to believe that same sex marriages should be legal and our goverment should support them finacually. What does your man that you believe should be president say about that? The democrats are getting so liberal. Now they want all gay schools and liberals usually support gay catholic priest. Is nothing sacred anymore? Is nothing Holy? I believe if we leave God out of our government we have no morals. We need a good Christian man like George Bush. With good Christian morals. A good conservative who believes in old fashioned honesty and traditions.
That’s what I feel the democrats need. It’s been along time since I have seen a democratic candidate with any conservative morals on abortions and gays. Clinton tried to put gays in the military. Senator Clinton tried to give the same amount of financial support to gay couples as married people got in NY when 9/11 happened. WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THE DEMOCRATS? ALL THEIR MORALS JUST WENT DOWN THE TOILET. Years ago I was a democrat. Now I’m ashamed to call myself one anymore. I haven’t seen a democrat with morals in years. WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THE DEMOCRATS? I THINK THEY ALL WENT LIBRELLY NUTS.
Ann Stewart 362
08-06-2003 08:12 PM ET (US)
Ladies and Gentlemen:
I received this email from ABC news today:
Keep you fingers crossed maybe ABC will care enough about the debate to publicized it on ABC Television.
Dear Ann,
Thank you for your story idea submission. Because we receive many ideas everyday, it is difficult to respond to everyone individually. We will, however, forward your submission on to our producers for a possible Nightline broadcast. If we choose to do a story on internet debate sites, we will contact you. Thanks again for your thoughts, and continuing interest in Nightline.
Sincerely,
ABC News Nightline
-----Original Message-----
From: 4stew@prodigy.net [1]
Posted At: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:04 AM
Posted To: niteline@abc.com
Conversation: NIGHTLINE via ABCNEWS.com
Subject: NIGHTLINE via ABCNEWS.com
from = 4stew@prodigy.net
name = Ann Stewart
08-06-2003 08:12 PM ET (US)
Ladies and Gentlemen:
I received this email from ABC news today:
Keep you fingers crossed maybe ABC will care enough about the debate to publicized it on ABC Television.
Dear Ann,
Thank you for your story idea submission. Because we receive many ideas everyday, it is difficult to respond to everyone individually. We will, however, forward your submission on to our producers for a possible Nightline broadcast. If we choose to do a story on internet debate sites, we will contact you. Thanks again for your thoughts, and continuing interest in Nightline.
Sincerely,
ABC News Nightline
-----Original Message-----
From: 4stew@prodigy.net [1]
Posted At: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:04 AM
Posted To: niteline@abc.com
Conversation: NIGHTLINE via ABCNEWS.com
Subject: NIGHTLINE via ABCNEWS.com
from = 4stew@prodigy.net
name = Ann Stewart
Ann Stewart 363
08-06-2003 08:16 PM ET (US)
Thank You Becky for checking in. Patti hang in their girl. I emailed Kerry about you and told him of your wonderful support. Becky I will try to write Bush's web site about you and Jennifer and tell him how you support him. To all the Dean supporters I will Post your names on Dean's Blog.
Thanks for coming to the debate. We are going to carry this debate all the way though the election 2004.
08-06-2003 08:16 PM ET (US)
Thank You Becky for checking in. Patti hang in their girl. I emailed Kerry about you and told him of your wonderful support. Becky I will try to write Bush's web site about you and Jennifer and tell him how you support him. To all the Dean supporters I will Post your names on Dean's Blog.
Thanks for coming to the debate. We are going to carry this debate all the way though the election 2004.
Alison Brown 364
08-06-2003 09:02 PM ET (US)
Becky,
I asked you to explain to me what Bush has done that makes him a good president, and you wrote that he is opposed to abortion and to gay rights. Since you share those positions with him, I can see why you would want to vote for him - HOWEVER, his stances on those two issues have so far had no effect on reality.
Let me clarify my question: What has Bush actually DONE that makes him a great president, as you said? Anyone can be in favor of or against this or that, but it doesn't make them a great leader.
I think the actual, real effects Bush has had on our country have all been negative. We are deeply, deeply in deficit because of his tax cuts for the rich and his pre-emptive war. Unemployment has skyrocketed. While he claims to be tough on national security, government money and attention has been diverted from the war on terror to the mess in Iraq (which, regardless of what you may have heard on Fox, had nothing to do with terrorism). Osama bin Laden is still at large, and no one even seems to mention him any more. Countries that were once strong allies will no longer cooperate with us because of the Bush administration's arrogance. None of these are two-sided social issues - these are all real, bad things that have happened as a direct result of Bush's "leadership."
One further point: I completely respect your religious beliefs and your adherence to Christian morals. But the US Constitution clearly states that the church and the government MUST be kept separate. This has been a part of our country's law and founding principles since its beginning, and I'm sorry, but it's not negotiable. This is a country of many faiths, and therefore you can't demand that all Americans follow the Christian set of morals.
08-06-2003 09:02 PM ET (US)
Becky,
I asked you to explain to me what Bush has done that makes him a good president, and you wrote that he is opposed to abortion and to gay rights. Since you share those positions with him, I can see why you would want to vote for him - HOWEVER, his stances on those two issues have so far had no effect on reality.
Let me clarify my question: What has Bush actually DONE that makes him a great president, as you said? Anyone can be in favor of or against this or that, but it doesn't make them a great leader.
I think the actual, real effects Bush has had on our country have all been negative. We are deeply, deeply in deficit because of his tax cuts for the rich and his pre-emptive war. Unemployment has skyrocketed. While he claims to be tough on national security, government money and attention has been diverted from the war on terror to the mess in Iraq (which, regardless of what you may have heard on Fox, had nothing to do with terrorism). Osama bin Laden is still at large, and no one even seems to mention him any more. Countries that were once strong allies will no longer cooperate with us because of the Bush administration's arrogance. None of these are two-sided social issues - these are all real, bad things that have happened as a direct result of Bush's "leadership."
One further point: I completely respect your religious beliefs and your adherence to Christian morals. But the US Constitution clearly states that the church and the government MUST be kept separate. This has been a part of our country's law and founding principles since its beginning, and I'm sorry, but it's not negotiable. This is a country of many faiths, and therefore you can't demand that all Americans follow the Christian set of morals.
Keith Brekhus 365
08-06-2003 11:05 PM ET (US)
I just came back from a Howard Dean meet up. I am happy to note that several of the people there were people that voted for Bush in 2000 and a couple voted for Nader in 2000 (so did I, for what its worth), and at least one didn't even vote in 2000, so Dean is not only mobilizing Democrats but he is already bringing Republicans, Greens and non-voters into his grassroots coalition.
Now it isn't that amazing that a Republican or an independent will vote for a Democrat--it happens frequently. However, it is remarkable that people who voted for Bush are already working on Dean's campaign over a year before the 2004 election.
I'm curious which people on this board are thinking of switching allegiances from who they voted for in 2000. Anyone vote for Bush and now looking at a Democrat? Anyone go for Gore last time who is going for Bush now?
08-06-2003 11:05 PM ET (US)
I just came back from a Howard Dean meet up. I am happy to note that several of the people there were people that voted for Bush in 2000 and a couple voted for Nader in 2000 (so did I, for what its worth), and at least one didn't even vote in 2000, so Dean is not only mobilizing Democrats but he is already bringing Republicans, Greens and non-voters into his grassroots coalition.
Now it isn't that amazing that a Republican or an independent will vote for a Democrat--it happens frequently. However, it is remarkable that people who voted for Bush are already working on Dean's campaign over a year before the 2004 election.
I'm curious which people on this board are thinking of switching allegiances from who they voted for in 2000. Anyone vote for Bush and now looking at a Democrat? Anyone go for Gore last time who is going for Bush now?
Jennifer (Bush Supporter) 366
08-06-2003 11:05 PM ET (US)
Yes Alison you are right, but if you are a Christian, you have to follow your conscious. I put my faith ahead of politics, and I will vote for the person who has the same Ideals and beliefs as I do. That man is George Bush.
Anybody with Christian Morals will vote for Bush.
08-06-2003 11:05 PM ET (US)
Yes Alison you are right, but if you are a Christian, you have to follow your conscious. I put my faith ahead of politics, and I will vote for the person who has the same Ideals and beliefs as I do. That man is George Bush.
Anybody with Christian Morals will vote for Bush.
Patti Ferschke 367
08-06-2003 11:17 PM ET (US)
Here's what I learned today. If you guys really want to oust BUSH, and if that "IS" the goal,to work for the interest of "All the people"then you'd better listen up " NEWSWEEK" magazine has posted a side by side BIO of BUSH vS
DEAN,with photos of them from their YALE days. BUSH looks "preppy",DEAN looks "hippy", huge differences. But when you read the BIO'S they are so similar it is frightening ! Lesson to be learned,"we the people" will say:
"if these two guys are one and the same,why should we go with the new,we'll stay with tried and true "! CARL ROVE at work again! I heard KERRY on C-SPAN this afternoon..come on over to the KERRY camp.....we can NOT lose this fight !
08-06-2003 11:17 PM ET (US)
Here's what I learned today. If you guys really want to oust BUSH, and if that "IS" the goal,to work for the interest of "All the people"then you'd better listen up " NEWSWEEK" magazine has posted a side by side BIO of BUSH vS
DEAN,with photos of them from their YALE days. BUSH looks "preppy",DEAN looks "hippy", huge differences. But when you read the BIO'S they are so similar it is frightening ! Lesson to be learned,"we the people" will say:
"if these two guys are one and the same,why should we go with the new,we'll stay with tried and true "! CARL ROVE at work again! I heard KERRY on C-SPAN this afternoon..come on over to the KERRY camp.....we can NOT lose this fight !
Ann Stewart 368
08-06-2003 11:22 PM ET (US)
Dear Supporters
I just received an Email from CNN, which stated to me to redirect my email to another place so I did. I hope it works. I have never received an email from CNN before, and I have written them many times for many different subjects. Mostly because I made some CNN comedy sites, but maybe they think this subject is something to care about. Who know? I do think this subject is pretty important. To find the man who will represent our country.
Hello Jennifer, Keith and Alison
Thank you all for coming in today.
You know Jenny I have tried to find other Bush supporters to help you and Patti too with Kerry, but it has been hard to find Bush supporters on the internet. Most of the original Bush supporters were here from the beginning.
I did find out Steve Bohannon did vote for Bush the first time around, but is debating on who to vote for in this election. So he’s a swing voter. He could go either way.
I welcome the Dean supporters. They came out in masses. You guys are great. I felt like Jennifer, Becky and Roger were tag teaming me, before you guys showed up.
08-06-2003 11:22 PM ET (US)
Dear Supporters
I just received an Email from CNN, which stated to me to redirect my email to another place so I did. I hope it works. I have never received an email from CNN before, and I have written them many times for many different subjects. Mostly because I made some CNN comedy sites, but maybe they think this subject is something to care about. Who know? I do think this subject is pretty important. To find the man who will represent our country.
Hello Jennifer, Keith and Alison
Thank you all for coming in today.
You know Jenny I have tried to find other Bush supporters to help you and Patti too with Kerry, but it has been hard to find Bush supporters on the internet. Most of the original Bush supporters were here from the beginning.
I did find out Steve Bohannon did vote for Bush the first time around, but is debating on who to vote for in this election. So he’s a swing voter. He could go either way.
I welcome the Dean supporters. They came out in masses. You guys are great. I felt like Jennifer, Becky and Roger were tag teaming me, before you guys showed up.
Patti Ferschke 369
08-06-2003 11:29 PM ET (US)
To Becky and Allison:the founders knew when the writ of the constitution,religion was going to be the one "heated"
unsettled issue for all of time.That's the reason for separation of church and state,and BUSH is trying to change all that. As for "women's right to chose"..it is that. If you don't believe me ,just go ask BUSH'S MOM, Barbara,she thinks so too!
08-06-2003 11:29 PM ET (US)
To Becky and Allison:the founders knew when the writ of the constitution,religion was going to be the one "heated"
unsettled issue for all of time.That's the reason for separation of church and state,and BUSH is trying to change all that. As for "women's right to chose"..it is that. If you don't believe me ,just go ask BUSH'S MOM, Barbara,she thinks so too!
Patti Ferschke 370
08-06-2003 11:31 PM ET (US)
ANN,let's hope that's what we think it is..wtg girl !
08-06-2003 11:31 PM ET (US)
ANN,let's hope that's what we think it is..wtg girl !
Monday, August 25, 2003
Keith Brekhus 371
08-06-2003 11:46 PM ET (US)
Honestly, Bill Clinton looked like a hippie at Oxford, he smoked pot (but supposedly didn't inhale...yeah right) and he protested Vietnam.
Dubya drank and drove.
While the press will have their fun with biographies they will have at best, a marginal impact on the outcome of the election. Can anyone name where Gore went to college or what he looked like?
the election will be decided by current media images, gut feelings, and who has the most volunteers and money to spread a candidates message and not so much by a photo of the candidate in 1971. Besides people have a natural inclination to like Doctors :-).
08-06-2003 11:46 PM ET (US)
Honestly, Bill Clinton looked like a hippie at Oxford, he smoked pot (but supposedly didn't inhale...yeah right) and he protested Vietnam.
Dubya drank and drove.
While the press will have their fun with biographies they will have at best, a marginal impact on the outcome of the election. Can anyone name where Gore went to college or what he looked like?
the election will be decided by current media images, gut feelings, and who has the most volunteers and money to spread a candidates message and not so much by a photo of the candidate in 1971. Besides people have a natural inclination to like Doctors :-).
doug from indiana 372
08-07-2003 12:04 AM ET (US)
jennifer, i just had a talk with my girlfriend about this(she is very into god) but we both agree, the bible is not a HOW TO RUN A COUNTRY HANDBOOK, in the bible it also says man shall not judge other men.does that mean we should not have courts?prisons?jail?
what about putting people to death? thall shall not commit murder i thought.
didn't bush put down more people then ANY gov in history?
152 in 5 years?
yeah, real god fearing man he is..lol
jenn do you even know who pnac is?
you do know bush is a puppet for them right?
08-07-2003 12:04 AM ET (US)
jennifer, i just had a talk with my girlfriend about this(she is very into god) but we both agree, the bible is not a HOW TO RUN A COUNTRY HANDBOOK, in the bible it also says man shall not judge other men.does that mean we should not have courts?prisons?jail?
what about putting people to death? thall shall not commit murder i thought.
didn't bush put down more people then ANY gov in history?
152 in 5 years?
yeah, real god fearing man he is..lol
jenn do you even know who pnac is?
you do know bush is a puppet for them right?
doug from indiana 373
08-07-2003 12:05 AM ET (US)
6-25-2001
CNN
Bush threatens to derail flight attendant strike. The right to strike is just about the only thing that keeps employers from abusing their employees with low wages, few benefits, and unsafe workplaces. President Bush, who as a conservative doesn't believe the government should interfere in the affairs of business, has decide to step in and stop a strike of American Airlines flight attendants. Naturally, the White House denies any relationship between big campaign contributions from the airlines and Bush's decision.
6-24-2001
New York Times
Bush to reverse snowmobile ban in Yellowstone Park. They call it a "tunnel of fumes" and say it's "like being in a bar--you're dizzy, nauseous, your throat is burning and your eyes are burning." White House correspondents describing a press conference with Ari Fleischer? No, it's Yellowstone rangers giving their reasons for supporting the Clinton-administration ban on snowmobiles in the national park. Such parks should give people the opportunity to escape the noise and pollution of the city, but snowmobiles give Yellowstone that interstate feel. They also interfere with the winter food search of bison. Three years of public meetings and comment resulted in the snowmobile ban, but Bush will reverse that process with no input from the public.
6-22-2001
Salon.com
Bush uses the IRS and federal funds to send out a campaign letter. Just about everyone knows that the IRS will be sending out rebate checks later this year from Bush's ill-advised tax cut. But the president, who campaigned against wasteful government spending, is having the IRS spend more than $30 million to send a letter to taxpayers to let them know they'll be getting a refund. Perhaps the dozen or so people who haven't yet heard the news are worth the full $30 million. The letter, perhaps unsurprisingly, glowingly mentions Bush's role in the cut because, after all, it's never to early to start campaigning.
6-20-2001
CNN
Bush seeks settlement for tobacco lawsuit. Despite the government's strong case against tobacco companies, Attorney General John Ashcroft indicates that the Justice Department will seek to settle the lawsuit. This has two effects. It weakens Justice's case by presenting a much less confident front, and it helps yet another industry that--you guessed it!--gave a lot more money to Bush than to Al Gore.
6-15-2001
Washington Post
Bush denies Africans AIDS drugs through international aid agency. The president's choice to run the US Agency for International Development, Andrew Natsios, argues against giving antiviral drugs to the 25 million Africans that suffer from AIDS. His reason? Africans can't tell time. Taking AIDS drugs often involves a strict regimen, and Natsios seems to think that all Africans are primitive villagers who won't be able to understand complex Western ideas like "four o'clock." Instead, he suggests, we must stress "abstinence, faithfulness and the use of condoms" for preventing future outbreaks. So while Natsios thinks that Africans won't understand our Western concept of time; he doesn't mind trying to impose his Western morality.
6-10-2001
Associated Press
Bush refuses to give California an exemption for gasoline additives. Federal regulations require the addition of an "oxygenate" to gasoline to make it burn more cleanly. California recently phased out a common oxygenate, MTBE, because it was polluting the water supply. Another option is ethanol, but California Governor Gray Davis asks for an exemption to the oxygenate rule because refiners have developed other ways to make the gasoline cleaner. Adding oxygenates to the gas increases the cost of gasoline, and Davis is obviously sensitive to energy prices. Bush refuses Davis's request, showing that the 2004 campaign is already in full swing. Support for ethanol is crucial for presidential candidates in Iowa, where the corn-based fuel additive is important to the local economy.
6-10-2001
CNN
Bush threatens to veto the Kennedy-Edwards-McCain patients' bill of rights. When Republicans were in control of Congress, the president could state unequivocally that he supported a patients' bill of rights. After all, he's a Reformer with Results. But now that the Democrats run the Senate, a bill with real reform might end up on his desk. Such a bill might allow, for example, someone whose spouse died because an HMO refused medical treatment to collect a judgement of more than $500,000. Calling such real reform "a trial lawyers' bill," White House chief of staff Andy Card indicates that Bush will veto the bill if it reaches his desk. Hey, that couldn't have anything to do with all those campaign contributions from the insurance industry, could it?
6-9-2001
New York Times
Bush delays release of Reagan's presidential records. Most of the members of the Bush administration have a long history in Republican politics. Donald Rumsfeld is enjoying his second term as secretary of defense. Vice President Cheney was President Ford's chief of staff. Is it so surprising, then, that Bush would delay the release--mandated by a post-Watergate reform law--of President Reagan's records? Who knows what current administration player will be embarrassed by the documents, which contain advice given to the former president by close advisers? When it's a choice between bringing the truth to light or protecting his cronies (not to mention his father), you can be sure on which side you'll find our president standing.
6-8-2001
St. Petersburg Times
Bush keeps protesters at bay. At a public appearance to celebrate the president's tax cut in Tampa, Florida, protesters are forbidden to carry signs or express opinions that differ from administration policy. Instead, they are directed to a roped-off area one-third of a mile from the stadium designated--get this--a First Amendment zone. That might just be the greatest example of modern Orwellian double-speak ever. Last time we checked the Constitution, it didn't include limitations as to where one could enjoy the freedom of speech.
Read a first-person account of oppression at the rally
6-8-2001
Washington Post
Bush accelerates missile defense plans. Congress hasn't authorized it. The international community repudiates it. That doesn't stop our president from pursuing a missile defense system, which by its nature trashes important international treaties. The new goal is to get at least part of the system operational by 2004, since there's a good chance Bush won't be the president after then.
6-7-2001
CNN
Bush signs his enormous tax cut. "Tax relief is an achievement for families struggling to enter the middle class," says the president as he signs the bill containing a $1.35 tax cut into law. Of course the president's bill doesn't help anyone trying to enter the middle class. The most a family not already in the middle class can receive under the cut is $600 plus $500 per child a year, and most will get a fraction of that amount. That's far from enough money to move anyone from one class to another. The wealthy, on the other hand, will net thousands, and in some cases millions of dollars from Bush cuts. "The surplus is the people's money, and we ought to trust them with that money," Bush says, ignoring the rather obvious principle that surpluses obtained during boom times should be applied to deficits incurred during slower economies. The federal debt, after all, is the people's debt, and someone has to pay for it.
6-7-2001
Washington Post
Bush caves to steel industry's threat against retired workers. Presidents aren't supposed to negotiate with terrorists, right? When an industry threatens to eliminate health insurance benefits for its retired workers if the government doesn't impose trade protections, it fits the very definition of a terrorist: threatening innocent bystanders to accomplish ideological goals. Bush himself often talks about the "bully pulpit" of the presidency, and this is the perfect opportunity to use it. Instead of caving into the steel industry's demands, he could make a public statement repudiating the industry's position and demanding that it not use its workers' health as a negotiating tool. Instead he gives the companies what they want, ensuring that other business groups will be comfortable using these tactics for years to come.
6-1-2001
Associated Press
Bush refuses to issue proclamation for Gay Pride Month. You can't have it both ways. You can't promise to be everybody's president--a uniter, not a divider--and then turn around and choose to discriminate against a select group of Americans. But Bush decides to do just that by not signing a proclamation declaring June Gay Pride month as Clinton did before him. "The executive office of the president will not sponsor an observance for Gay and Lesbian Pride Month," reads an internal White House memo. What a wonderful example for tolerance the president is setting.
5-29-2001
Newsweek
Bush undermines Justice Department suits against polluting companies. We're not sure where people got the idea that conservatives think criminals should be punished for their crimes. In his new energy policy, Bush calls for the Justice Department to "review" (read: dump) lawsuits against energy and other companies that break environmental laws. These companies--filled with Bush campaign contributors--regularly flout the law, but don't look for this supposedly conservative administration to enforce it. (Is this where the compassion part comes in?) Protecting campaign contributors from federal prosecution seems like an obvious abuse of power, the kind that presidents should be impeached for. As one attorney at Justice put it, "ongoing law-enforcement activity was supposed to be out of bounds from politics."
.
http://www.wage-slave.org/scorecard2.html
08-07-2003 12:05 AM ET (US)
6-25-2001
CNN
Bush threatens to derail flight attendant strike. The right to strike is just about the only thing that keeps employers from abusing their employees with low wages, few benefits, and unsafe workplaces. President Bush, who as a conservative doesn't believe the government should interfere in the affairs of business, has decide to step in and stop a strike of American Airlines flight attendants. Naturally, the White House denies any relationship between big campaign contributions from the airlines and Bush's decision.
6-24-2001
New York Times
Bush to reverse snowmobile ban in Yellowstone Park. They call it a "tunnel of fumes" and say it's "like being in a bar--you're dizzy, nauseous, your throat is burning and your eyes are burning." White House correspondents describing a press conference with Ari Fleischer? No, it's Yellowstone rangers giving their reasons for supporting the Clinton-administration ban on snowmobiles in the national park. Such parks should give people the opportunity to escape the noise and pollution of the city, but snowmobiles give Yellowstone that interstate feel. They also interfere with the winter food search of bison. Three years of public meetings and comment resulted in the snowmobile ban, but Bush will reverse that process with no input from the public.
6-22-2001
Salon.com
Bush uses the IRS and federal funds to send out a campaign letter. Just about everyone knows that the IRS will be sending out rebate checks later this year from Bush's ill-advised tax cut. But the president, who campaigned against wasteful government spending, is having the IRS spend more than $30 million to send a letter to taxpayers to let them know they'll be getting a refund. Perhaps the dozen or so people who haven't yet heard the news are worth the full $30 million. The letter, perhaps unsurprisingly, glowingly mentions Bush's role in the cut because, after all, it's never to early to start campaigning.
6-20-2001
CNN
Bush seeks settlement for tobacco lawsuit. Despite the government's strong case against tobacco companies, Attorney General John Ashcroft indicates that the Justice Department will seek to settle the lawsuit. This has two effects. It weakens Justice's case by presenting a much less confident front, and it helps yet another industry that--you guessed it!--gave a lot more money to Bush than to Al Gore.
6-15-2001
Washington Post
Bush denies Africans AIDS drugs through international aid agency. The president's choice to run the US Agency for International Development, Andrew Natsios, argues against giving antiviral drugs to the 25 million Africans that suffer from AIDS. His reason? Africans can't tell time. Taking AIDS drugs often involves a strict regimen, and Natsios seems to think that all Africans are primitive villagers who won't be able to understand complex Western ideas like "four o'clock." Instead, he suggests, we must stress "abstinence, faithfulness and the use of condoms" for preventing future outbreaks. So while Natsios thinks that Africans won't understand our Western concept of time; he doesn't mind trying to impose his Western morality.
6-10-2001
Associated Press
Bush refuses to give California an exemption for gasoline additives. Federal regulations require the addition of an "oxygenate" to gasoline to make it burn more cleanly. California recently phased out a common oxygenate, MTBE, because it was polluting the water supply. Another option is ethanol, but California Governor Gray Davis asks for an exemption to the oxygenate rule because refiners have developed other ways to make the gasoline cleaner. Adding oxygenates to the gas increases the cost of gasoline, and Davis is obviously sensitive to energy prices. Bush refuses Davis's request, showing that the 2004 campaign is already in full swing. Support for ethanol is crucial for presidential candidates in Iowa, where the corn-based fuel additive is important to the local economy.
6-10-2001
CNN
Bush threatens to veto the Kennedy-Edwards-McCain patients' bill of rights. When Republicans were in control of Congress, the president could state unequivocally that he supported a patients' bill of rights. After all, he's a Reformer with Results. But now that the Democrats run the Senate, a bill with real reform might end up on his desk. Such a bill might allow, for example, someone whose spouse died because an HMO refused medical treatment to collect a judgement of more than $500,000. Calling such real reform "a trial lawyers' bill," White House chief of staff Andy Card indicates that Bush will veto the bill if it reaches his desk. Hey, that couldn't have anything to do with all those campaign contributions from the insurance industry, could it?
6-9-2001
New York Times
Bush delays release of Reagan's presidential records. Most of the members of the Bush administration have a long history in Republican politics. Donald Rumsfeld is enjoying his second term as secretary of defense. Vice President Cheney was President Ford's chief of staff. Is it so surprising, then, that Bush would delay the release--mandated by a post-Watergate reform law--of President Reagan's records? Who knows what current administration player will be embarrassed by the documents, which contain advice given to the former president by close advisers? When it's a choice between bringing the truth to light or protecting his cronies (not to mention his father), you can be sure on which side you'll find our president standing.
6-8-2001
St. Petersburg Times
Bush keeps protesters at bay. At a public appearance to celebrate the president's tax cut in Tampa, Florida, protesters are forbidden to carry signs or express opinions that differ from administration policy. Instead, they are directed to a roped-off area one-third of a mile from the stadium designated--get this--a First Amendment zone. That might just be the greatest example of modern Orwellian double-speak ever. Last time we checked the Constitution, it didn't include limitations as to where one could enjoy the freedom of speech.
Read a first-person account of oppression at the rally
6-8-2001
Washington Post
Bush accelerates missile defense plans. Congress hasn't authorized it. The international community repudiates it. That doesn't stop our president from pursuing a missile defense system, which by its nature trashes important international treaties. The new goal is to get at least part of the system operational by 2004, since there's a good chance Bush won't be the president after then.
6-7-2001
CNN
Bush signs his enormous tax cut. "Tax relief is an achievement for families struggling to enter the middle class," says the president as he signs the bill containing a $1.35 tax cut into law. Of course the president's bill doesn't help anyone trying to enter the middle class. The most a family not already in the middle class can receive under the cut is $600 plus $500 per child a year, and most will get a fraction of that amount. That's far from enough money to move anyone from one class to another. The wealthy, on the other hand, will net thousands, and in some cases millions of dollars from Bush cuts. "The surplus is the people's money, and we ought to trust them with that money," Bush says, ignoring the rather obvious principle that surpluses obtained during boom times should be applied to deficits incurred during slower economies. The federal debt, after all, is the people's debt, and someone has to pay for it.
6-7-2001
Washington Post
Bush caves to steel industry's threat against retired workers. Presidents aren't supposed to negotiate with terrorists, right? When an industry threatens to eliminate health insurance benefits for its retired workers if the government doesn't impose trade protections, it fits the very definition of a terrorist: threatening innocent bystanders to accomplish ideological goals. Bush himself often talks about the "bully pulpit" of the presidency, and this is the perfect opportunity to use it. Instead of caving into the steel industry's demands, he could make a public statement repudiating the industry's position and demanding that it not use its workers' health as a negotiating tool. Instead he gives the companies what they want, ensuring that other business groups will be comfortable using these tactics for years to come.
6-1-2001
Associated Press
Bush refuses to issue proclamation for Gay Pride Month. You can't have it both ways. You can't promise to be everybody's president--a uniter, not a divider--and then turn around and choose to discriminate against a select group of Americans. But Bush decides to do just that by not signing a proclamation declaring June Gay Pride month as Clinton did before him. "The executive office of the president will not sponsor an observance for Gay and Lesbian Pride Month," reads an internal White House memo. What a wonderful example for tolerance the president is setting.
5-29-2001
Newsweek
Bush undermines Justice Department suits against polluting companies. We're not sure where people got the idea that conservatives think criminals should be punished for their crimes. In his new energy policy, Bush calls for the Justice Department to "review" (read: dump) lawsuits against energy and other companies that break environmental laws. These companies--filled with Bush campaign contributors--regularly flout the law, but don't look for this supposedly conservative administration to enforce it. (Is this where the compassion part comes in?) Protecting campaign contributors from federal prosecution seems like an obvious abuse of power, the kind that presidents should be impeached for. As one attorney at Justice put it, "ongoing law-enforcement activity was supposed to be out of bounds from politics."
.
http://www.wage-slave.org/scorecard2.html
Jonathan in GA 374
08-07-2003 12:17 AM ET (US)
I went to a Dean meetup tonight.
240,000 supporters nation wide, 80,000 people signed up around the country, like me, who get together and volunteer.
The second nearest candidate has a crew of 8,000. Yes, we're beating him by 10x.
Don't be shocked when we win the nomination.
08-07-2003 12:17 AM ET (US)
I went to a Dean meetup tonight.
240,000 supporters nation wide, 80,000 people signed up around the country, like me, who get together and volunteer.
The second nearest candidate has a crew of 8,000. Yes, we're beating him by 10x.
Don't be shocked when we win the nomination.
Steven Bohannon 376
08-07-2003 12:52 AM ET (US)
Hello, everybody. Well, it looks like this website has really turned out to be fantastic for getting to hear a cross-section of political views. Just wanted to fan the fires a little bit by tossing out a couple of hypotheticals that I've heard on a couple of news programs (even though they are probably pretty farfetched): What would happen if either Hillary or Al Gore decided to toss their hats into the Democratic Primary process? Would the current candidates crush them like bugs or would either of those two be juggernauts who would sweep the rest away?
08-07-2003 12:52 AM ET (US)
Hello, everybody. Well, it looks like this website has really turned out to be fantastic for getting to hear a cross-section of political views. Just wanted to fan the fires a little bit by tossing out a couple of hypotheticals that I've heard on a couple of news programs (even though they are probably pretty farfetched): What would happen if either Hillary or Al Gore decided to toss their hats into the Democratic Primary process? Would the current candidates crush them like bugs or would either of those two be juggernauts who would sweep the rest away?
Patti Ferschke 377
08-07-2003 01:07 AM ET (US)
GREAT POSTS ON THE SAY ONE THING DO ANOTHER "PINOCCHIO"RESIDENT AT 1600 PENNSLYVANIA AVE,SOON TO GO BACK TO CRAWFORD TEXAS!
08-07-2003 01:07 AM ET (US)
GREAT POSTS ON THE SAY ONE THING DO ANOTHER "PINOCCHIO"RESIDENT AT 1600 PENNSLYVANIA AVE,SOON TO GO BACK TO CRAWFORD TEXAS!
Lysa 378
08-07-2003 01:16 AM ET (US)
Jonathan in GA, you took the words I was about to use.
I went to a Dean meetup tonight...I've never been involved politically in anything unless you consider petitions and passing along information or reading up about it. Dean's campaign is inspiring in ways I never imagined possible. It's not just a presidential campaign, it's any one and everyone getting active. Though I admit the meetup was different than I thought it would be. I have a feeling I should have been in the group that Keith and Wayne were in instead of trying to write letters! But I'm glad there are other means of keeping in touch and meeting up weekly. I'm going to need it. It'll be a crash course and a long haul wrapped in one!
Waving to Wayne and Keith. How weird to write that knowing you're in the same state and but a few hours ago we were all in the same space!
Fifteen months to go! Sorry Bush fans, he's on his way out!
Steve, Hillary said she wouldn't run. Dean called her before beginning his campaign to ask. I believe her to hold to that. If Al Gore runs, I've lost the last shred of respect I have for him. But I don't think he will either. I think Dean has way too much momentum to be bothered even by well established names like them. The Moderate Right would certainly not go for them is my guess too.
08-07-2003 01:16 AM ET (US)
Jonathan in GA, you took the words I was about to use.
I went to a Dean meetup tonight...I've never been involved politically in anything unless you consider petitions and passing along information or reading up about it. Dean's campaign is inspiring in ways I never imagined possible. It's not just a presidential campaign, it's any one and everyone getting active. Though I admit the meetup was different than I thought it would be. I have a feeling I should have been in the group that Keith and Wayne were in instead of trying to write letters! But I'm glad there are other means of keeping in touch and meeting up weekly. I'm going to need it. It'll be a crash course and a long haul wrapped in one!
Waving to Wayne and Keith. How weird to write that knowing you're in the same state and but a few hours ago we were all in the same space!
Fifteen months to go! Sorry Bush fans, he's on his way out!
Steve, Hillary said she wouldn't run. Dean called her before beginning his campaign to ask. I believe her to hold to that. If Al Gore runs, I've lost the last shred of respect I have for him. But I don't think he will either. I think Dean has way too much momentum to be bothered even by well established names like them. The Moderate Right would certainly not go for them is my guess too.
Ann Stewart 379
08-07-2003 01:42 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-07-2003 01:43 AM
If Dean wins who do you think will be his running mate for vice president, and Patti the same question to you for Kerry?
Welcome back Steve, Lysa and Jonathan
08-07-2003 01:42 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-07-2003 01:43 AM
If Dean wins who do you think will be his running mate for vice president, and Patti the same question to you for Kerry?
Welcome back Steve, Lysa and Jonathan
Steven Bohannon 380
08-07-2003 01:44 AM ET (US)
Patti,
Well maybe Bush will go back to Crawford. He's there right now, and he seems to enjoy it there. However, even though it is nice to see the enthusiasm for Howard Dean and John Kerry, I think this is going to be a hard fought election that could still go to Bush. Historically, it has been centrist Democrats, like Clinton, Carter, JFK (I think Johnson was more conservative than Nixon, but that picture only aids the argument) that have been able to do battle in the Republican geographic strongholds of the South, Southwest and West (except California). I think the enthusiasm displayed here for Dean and Kerry had better be an indication of what's happening throughout the nation or they will not be able to challenge for the presidency. I've heard, for instance, that a pretty big gender gap has opened up favoring George W. Bush in the white male demographic group.
08-07-2003 01:44 AM ET (US)
Patti,
Well maybe Bush will go back to Crawford. He's there right now, and he seems to enjoy it there. However, even though it is nice to see the enthusiasm for Howard Dean and John Kerry, I think this is going to be a hard fought election that could still go to Bush. Historically, it has been centrist Democrats, like Clinton, Carter, JFK (I think Johnson was more conservative than Nixon, but that picture only aids the argument) that have been able to do battle in the Republican geographic strongholds of the South, Southwest and West (except California). I think the enthusiasm displayed here for Dean and Kerry had better be an indication of what's happening throughout the nation or they will not be able to challenge for the presidency. I've heard, for instance, that a pretty big gender gap has opened up favoring George W. Bush in the white male demographic group.
Patti Ferschke 381
08-07-2003 01:53 AM ET (US)
FOR SURE IF WE GET DEAN FRONT AND FORWARD WE WILL LOSE,BUT I GOTTA SAY I LIKE DEANS GUTS!IT'S EARLY YET AND ANYTHING CAN AND WILL HAPPEN.BUT ONE THING FOR SURE IT'S GOING TO BE THE ONE THAT CAN AND WILL STAND UP TO CARL ROVE.....THAT'S THE CLENCHER,TRUST ME IT'S GOING TO BE KERRY!...IT'S GOT TO BE OUR LIVES WILL DEPEND ON IT!
08-07-2003 01:53 AM ET (US)
FOR SURE IF WE GET DEAN FRONT AND FORWARD WE WILL LOSE,BUT I GOTTA SAY I LIKE DEANS GUTS!IT'S EARLY YET AND ANYTHING CAN AND WILL HAPPEN.BUT ONE THING FOR SURE IT'S GOING TO BE THE ONE THAT CAN AND WILL STAND UP TO CARL ROVE.....THAT'S THE CLENCHER,TRUST ME IT'S GOING TO BE KERRY!...IT'S GOT TO BE OUR LIVES WILL DEPEND ON IT!
Patti Ferschke 383
08-07-2003 01:56 AM ET (US)
I DON'T KNOW WITH DEAN OR KERRY AND I DON'T WANT TO SPECULATE ON THE VP ISSUE..I'VE GOT ENOUGH TO DO PULLING KERRY FRONT AND FORWARD ! WHOMEVER KERRY CHOOSES IT'S GOING TO BE GOOD! I WANT SOME THINGS TO BE AN ELEMENT OF "SURPRISE",AND "GOTCHA!
08-07-2003 01:56 AM ET (US)
I DON'T KNOW WITH DEAN OR KERRY AND I DON'T WANT TO SPECULATE ON THE VP ISSUE..I'VE GOT ENOUGH TO DO PULLING KERRY FRONT AND FORWARD ! WHOMEVER KERRY CHOOSES IT'S GOING TO BE GOOD! I WANT SOME THINGS TO BE AN ELEMENT OF "SURPRISE",AND "GOTCHA!
Ann Stewart 385
08-07-2003 01:58 AM ET (US)
Steven Do you think there is anybody on the Dem's side that can beat Bush?
08-07-2003 01:58 AM ET (US)
Steven Do you think there is anybody on the Dem's side that can beat Bush?
Ann Stewart 386
08-07-2003 01:59 AM ET (US)
Not for today Patti
I'm updated until today.
Is there something you want me to post?
08-07-2003 01:59 AM ET (US)
Not for today Patti
I'm updated until today.
Is there something you want me to post?
sindhu kumar 387
08-07-2003 02:03 AM ET (US)
what do you guys and gals think of general wesley clark as a running mate for dean, kerry?
08-07-2003 02:03 AM ET (US)
what do you guys and gals think of general wesley clark as a running mate for dean, kerry?
Steven Bohannon 388
08-07-2003 02:05 AM ET (US)
Ann,
I think it's fairly obvious Bush is currently in the driver's seat. Public opinion, despite the very informed viewpoints expressed here about unfunded mandates imposed on the states by the federal government, is still behind him on national security. The Iraq endeavor is still far from a liability for him as of yet. The economy is still, imho, the thing that could do him in if unemployment rates continue to climb. If WMD is found in Iraq--and there was some indication the CIA (David Kay) was hinting about that probability a few days ago during congressional hearings-- then I think the Dems would be better off to go after "it's the economy, stupid", just like Clinton did to such great effect. The environmental issues are also definitely a weakness for Bush as well.
Patti, what makes you think Kerry is the man? His campaign has seemed to turn south, with Dean stealing some of his prospective voters.
08-07-2003 02:05 AM ET (US)
Ann,
I think it's fairly obvious Bush is currently in the driver's seat. Public opinion, despite the very informed viewpoints expressed here about unfunded mandates imposed on the states by the federal government, is still behind him on national security. The Iraq endeavor is still far from a liability for him as of yet. The economy is still, imho, the thing that could do him in if unemployment rates continue to climb. If WMD is found in Iraq--and there was some indication the CIA (David Kay) was hinting about that probability a few days ago during congressional hearings-- then I think the Dems would be better off to go after "it's the economy, stupid", just like Clinton did to such great effect. The environmental issues are also definitely a weakness for Bush as well.
Patti, what makes you think Kerry is the man? His campaign has seemed to turn south, with Dean stealing some of his prospective voters.
Alison Brown 389
08-07-2003 02:09 AM ET (US)
Jennifer,
Yeah, I understand where you're coming from and you can vote for whoever you want! I just wanted to point out that Bush cannot legally impose his Christian morals on the rest of the country. Well... he shouldn't, but he's certainly trying hard! Which brings me to a question: what is everyone's opinion on this proposed amendment banning gay marriage? I don't know too much about it... does it ban civil unions a la Vermont as well?
08-07-2003 02:09 AM ET (US)
Jennifer,
Yeah, I understand where you're coming from and you can vote for whoever you want! I just wanted to point out that Bush cannot legally impose his Christian morals on the rest of the country. Well... he shouldn't, but he's certainly trying hard! Which brings me to a question: what is everyone's opinion on this proposed amendment banning gay marriage? I don't know too much about it... does it ban civil unions a la Vermont as well?
Steven Bohannon 390
08-07-2003 02:12 AM ET (US)
Ann, to answer your other question, I think Joe Lieberman could give him a good run. He's a centrist democrat, though admittedly low in the shock and awe quotient. I think Dean has yet to weather the combined attack of the "heart and soul" of the centrist democratic party. Joe Lieberman has just started that onslaught against Dean, and I've heard some power brokers in the democratic party are a little dismayed about Dean's chances. If he wins the presidency, he'll make many pundits look like chumps, though. Nobody thought Ronald Reagan could get elected either (please pardon the comparison, you Dean supporters).
08-07-2003 02:12 AM ET (US)
Ann, to answer your other question, I think Joe Lieberman could give him a good run. He's a centrist democrat, though admittedly low in the shock and awe quotient. I think Dean has yet to weather the combined attack of the "heart and soul" of the centrist democratic party. Joe Lieberman has just started that onslaught against Dean, and I've heard some power brokers in the democratic party are a little dismayed about Dean's chances. If he wins the presidency, he'll make many pundits look like chumps, though. Nobody thought Ronald Reagan could get elected either (please pardon the comparison, you Dean supporters).
Alison Brown 391
08-07-2003 02:13 AM ET (US)
Patti,
Sorry if someone has already said this, I haven't caught up with all the posts here. You were pointing out the similarities in Bush and Dean's backgrounds, but you forgot to mention that Kerry has a lot in common with them too! He also went to Yale, and unlike Dean he was a member of the same controversial fraternity as Bush. I think it's interesting that people with some similar backgrounds can have such varied political beliefs, it shows that not everything is about where you're from and who your parents are (can someone please tell that to John Edwards?).
08-07-2003 02:13 AM ET (US)
Patti,
Sorry if someone has already said this, I haven't caught up with all the posts here. You were pointing out the similarities in Bush and Dean's backgrounds, but you forgot to mention that Kerry has a lot in common with them too! He also went to Yale, and unlike Dean he was a member of the same controversial fraternity as Bush. I think it's interesting that people with some similar backgrounds can have such varied political beliefs, it shows that not everything is about where you're from and who your parents are (can someone please tell that to John Edwards?).
Ann Stewart 392
08-07-2003 02:15 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-07-2003 02:17 AM
Welcome back Sindhu and Alison
Steven, in California Bush looks to lose your state again. It's the biggest state in electrial votes. Alot of people are saying Bush is undefeatable, but they thought that about his dad too. If the Democratic side can just pick up a few smaller states they may have a chance, but I have talked to alot people here in Tennessee and Bush is the number 1 President. They love him here. I agree with you Steven I think Bush is going to be hard to bet, maybe even impossable
08-07-2003 02:15 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-07-2003 02:17 AM
Welcome back Sindhu and Alison
Steven, in California Bush looks to lose your state again. It's the biggest state in electrial votes. Alot of people are saying Bush is undefeatable, but they thought that about his dad too. If the Democratic side can just pick up a few smaller states they may have a chance, but I have talked to alot people here in Tennessee and Bush is the number 1 President. They love him here. I agree with you Steven I think Bush is going to be hard to bet, maybe even impossable
Steven Bohannon 393
08-07-2003 02:22 AM ET (US)
People on both sides of the political spectrum like to think the other side is just plain misinformed or stubborn. But political stubborness goes to the very core of the ideological values that people have. A Dean candidacy might incite those who are of that ideological bent to begin with, but it will be difficult to make very much progress with those opposed to it. Same goes for Bush.
08-07-2003 02:22 AM ET (US)
People on both sides of the political spectrum like to think the other side is just plain misinformed or stubborn. But political stubborness goes to the very core of the ideological values that people have. A Dean candidacy might incite those who are of that ideological bent to begin with, but it will be difficult to make very much progress with those opposed to it. Same goes for Bush.
Ann Stewart 394
08-07-2003 02:25 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-07-2003 02:27 AM
Thanks Steven
When you figure out who you are going to vote for let me know. I have alway respected your opinion. Just to leave you with one more question Steve. If Leiberman doesn't win in the democratic primaries would you support any other dem Canidates? You know I look up to. Your my hero. Thanks everybody for you comments. I will be transfering them to the comments page probably tomorrow. It is almost 1:30 am in Nashville and I must be signing off. I love you all for coming out today. God bless you all. Sleep well!!!
08-07-2003 02:25 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-07-2003 02:27 AM
Thanks Steven
When you figure out who you are going to vote for let me know. I have alway respected your opinion. Just to leave you with one more question Steve. If Leiberman doesn't win in the democratic primaries would you support any other dem Canidates? You know I look up to. Your my hero. Thanks everybody for you comments. I will be transfering them to the comments page probably tomorrow. It is almost 1:30 am in Nashville and I must be signing off. I love you all for coming out today. God bless you all. Sleep well!!!
Alison Brown 395
08-07-2003 02:29 AM ET (US)
Doug,
Thanks for posting all that news about Bush. Most of it was new to me, I guess I've been tuning him out recently with my new concentration on getting Dean the nomination, but it's important to be aware. The bit about preventing people from protesting at his event is especially apalling - as a single incident it doesn't sound bad, but it shows that he has no respect at all for the right to free speech. When did conservatives start treating the Bill of Rights as guidelines rather than law? 'First Amendment Zone' my ass.
08-07-2003 02:29 AM ET (US)
Doug,
Thanks for posting all that news about Bush. Most of it was new to me, I guess I've been tuning him out recently with my new concentration on getting Dean the nomination, but it's important to be aware. The bit about preventing people from protesting at his event is especially apalling - as a single incident it doesn't sound bad, but it shows that he has no respect at all for the right to free speech. When did conservatives start treating the Bill of Rights as guidelines rather than law? 'First Amendment Zone' my ass.
Patti Ferschke 396
08-07-2003 02:29 AM ET (US)
DON'T THINK FOR ONE MINUTE BUSH WILL WIN, NOT OVER OUR "DEAD" BODIES,AND I DON'T EVER PLAN TO GIVE MY BODY TO BUSH! WE HAVE TO DO THIS ! WE DO IT BY NOT GIVING BUSH A PASS ON ONE SINGLE THING,WE EXPOSE HIM FOR WHAT HE IS AND WHAT HE'S DONE TO THIS COUNTRY...AND WE BECOME LIKE THE EVER-READY BATTERIES..WE KEEP GOING AND GOING AND GOING,NO MORE STOPS AROUND THE MONOPOLY BOARD..DO NOT PASS GO.... JUST DO IT!
08-07-2003 02:29 AM ET (US)
DON'T THINK FOR ONE MINUTE BUSH WILL WIN, NOT OVER OUR "DEAD" BODIES,AND I DON'T EVER PLAN TO GIVE MY BODY TO BUSH! WE HAVE TO DO THIS ! WE DO IT BY NOT GIVING BUSH A PASS ON ONE SINGLE THING,WE EXPOSE HIM FOR WHAT HE IS AND WHAT HE'S DONE TO THIS COUNTRY...AND WE BECOME LIKE THE EVER-READY BATTERIES..WE KEEP GOING AND GOING AND GOING,NO MORE STOPS AROUND THE MONOPOLY BOARD..DO NOT PASS GO.... JUST DO IT!
Ann Stewart 397
08-07-2003 02:32 AM ET (US)
Alison I promise I will post some of Doug's infomation tomorrow and thank you for it Doug.
08-07-2003 02:32 AM ET (US)
Alison I promise I will post some of Doug's infomation tomorrow and thank you for it Doug.
Patti Ferschke 398
08-07-2003 02:32 AM ET (US)
ALLISON,YOU'VE GOT GUTS,IT'S GREAT TO HAVE YOU AS AN ALLIE EVEN IF YOU GO WITH DEAN..YOU ARE QUITE THE GAL!
08-07-2003 02:32 AM ET (US)
ALLISON,YOU'VE GOT GUTS,IT'S GREAT TO HAVE YOU AS AN ALLIE EVEN IF YOU GO WITH DEAN..YOU ARE QUITE THE GAL!
Ann Stewart 399
08-07-2003 02:34 AM ET (US)
Sindhu meet me at the Gupta gab please. If you are still there.
08-07-2003 02:34 AM ET (US)
Sindhu meet me at the Gupta gab please. If you are still there.
Alison Brown 400
08-07-2003 02:40 AM ET (US)
Thank you Patti! I'm really glad to know that eventually we'll be working for the same team, whether it's for Kerry or Dean. I hope that the primaries don't get too nasty, and that supporters of the different candidates will be able to come together for the nominee with no hard feelings.
Has anyone seen the 'Bush vs. Bush' video on the Daily Show website? It's HILARIOUS! I especially reccommend it for people who are thinking about supporting Bush - it's a funny format, but it shows how much of a liar he is. I don't want to play hardball here Becky and Jennifer, so please don't take offense, but isn't lying considered immoral by your faith? Especially when it affects/damages the lives of hundreds of millions of people?
08-07-2003 02:40 AM ET (US)
Thank you Patti! I'm really glad to know that eventually we'll be working for the same team, whether it's for Kerry or Dean. I hope that the primaries don't get too nasty, and that supporters of the different candidates will be able to come together for the nominee with no hard feelings.
Has anyone seen the 'Bush vs. Bush' video on the Daily Show website? It's HILARIOUS! I especially reccommend it for people who are thinking about supporting Bush - it's a funny format, but it shows how much of a liar he is. I don't want to play hardball here Becky and Jennifer, so please don't take offense, but isn't lying considered immoral by your faith? Especially when it affects/damages the lives of hundreds of millions of people?
Patti Ferschke 401
08-07-2003 02:54 AM ET (US)
ALISON,OF COURSE WE'LL BE ON THE SAME TEAM WHEN THE TIME COMES..YOU CAN BET ON THAT ONE,NO WHINNING FROM ME! HOW DO I GET TO THE "DAILY SHOW"..I WANT TO SEE THIS..ANOTHER ONE TO GO TO IS..[http://www.dubyaspeak.com}..you will laugh til you are ill ! IT IS SO GREAT TO BE IN THE SAME CAMP..THAT CAMP WILL GET BUSH BACK TO TEXAS!
08-07-2003 02:54 AM ET (US)
ALISON,OF COURSE WE'LL BE ON THE SAME TEAM WHEN THE TIME COMES..YOU CAN BET ON THAT ONE,NO WHINNING FROM ME! HOW DO I GET TO THE "DAILY SHOW"..I WANT TO SEE THIS..ANOTHER ONE TO GO TO IS..[http://www.dubyaspeak.com}..you will laugh til you are ill ! IT IS SO GREAT TO BE IN THE SAME CAMP..THAT CAMP WILL GET BUSH BACK TO TEXAS!
Patti Ferschke 402
08-07-2003 02:57 AM ET (US)
ANN,OOPS I AM SO DUMB WHEN IT COMES TO THIS PUTER STUFF,PLEASE POST THE dubyaspeak.com site..you are wonderful !
08-07-2003 02:57 AM ET (US)
ANN,OOPS I AM SO DUMB WHEN IT COMES TO THIS PUTER STUFF,PLEASE POST THE dubyaspeak.com site..you are wonderful !
Patti Ferschke 404
08-07-2003 03:11 AM ET (US)
ANOTHER DAY OF SHEER EXHAUSTION,AND TO THINK WE HAVEN'T EVEN BEGUN THE "REAL" THING YET!IN THE END IT'S GONNA BE WORTH IT,WE CAN SLEEP AT NIGHT,BE ABLE TO CROSS A BRIDGE,AND NOT THINK THE "UNTHINKABLE",AND IT WILL BE MORE THAN TAKING OUR SHOES OFF AT CHECK POINTS!..WE GOTTA DO THIS GUYS!JUST THINK ABOUT THIS: THERE ISN'T ONE OF US THAT WON'T THINK ABOUT OUR SECURITY FOR ANY DAY OF OUR LIFE,FOR THE REST OF OUR ENTIRE LIFE,THAT'S WHY WE'RE GOING TO GET THIS RIGHT! BRING ON THE PEACE !
08-07-2003 03:11 AM ET (US)
ANOTHER DAY OF SHEER EXHAUSTION,AND TO THINK WE HAVEN'T EVEN BEGUN THE "REAL" THING YET!IN THE END IT'S GONNA BE WORTH IT,WE CAN SLEEP AT NIGHT,BE ABLE TO CROSS A BRIDGE,AND NOT THINK THE "UNTHINKABLE",AND IT WILL BE MORE THAN TAKING OUR SHOES OFF AT CHECK POINTS!..WE GOTTA DO THIS GUYS!JUST THINK ABOUT THIS: THERE ISN'T ONE OF US THAT WON'T THINK ABOUT OUR SECURITY FOR ANY DAY OF OUR LIFE,FOR THE REST OF OUR ENTIRE LIFE,THAT'S WHY WE'RE GOING TO GET THIS RIGHT! BRING ON THE PEACE !
Ann Stewart 405
08-07-2003 03:12 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-07-2003 03:13 AM
This is the link Patti want you to see.
http://dubyaspeak.com
Good night Patti and all you wonderful supporters.
08-07-2003 03:12 AM ET (US)
Edited by author 08-07-2003 03:13 AM
This is the link Patti want you to see.
http://dubyaspeak.com
Good night Patti and all you wonderful supporters.
Patti Ferschke 406
08-07-2003 03:21 AM ET (US)
HAVE A GREAT LAUGH...I LOVED THE ONE THAT ASKED;"MR. PRESIDENT WHAT DO YOU DO WITH ALL THAT MONEY"..RESPONSE;"IT'S NICE TO HAVE ALL THAT MONEY TO BURN. I HOPE YOU BUSHIES SEE THE IRONY AND THE TRUTH TO THESE STATEMENTS..THEY ARE FOR REAL!..NITE TO ALL AND GOD BLESS YOU !
08-07-2003 03:21 AM ET (US)
HAVE A GREAT LAUGH...I LOVED THE ONE THAT ASKED;"MR. PRESIDENT WHAT DO YOU DO WITH ALL THAT MONEY"..RESPONSE;"IT'S NICE TO HAVE ALL THAT MONEY TO BURN. I HOPE YOU BUSHIES SEE THE IRONY AND THE TRUTH TO THESE STATEMENTS..THEY ARE FOR REAL!..NITE TO ALL AND GOD BLESS YOU !